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Y do u do this 2 ur posts

R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Hi Corey,
I wish that you have read my all previous posts.
I am not hijacker because I can not talk nonsense. you must have not seen me in this forum and this is first time that I am in this forum taking part is some discussion. I used to come here once in a month(if I get time) and if I would be in the mood of some timepass then post some nonsense and then even not bother to come back to know the reaction of others. If you search by name in this forum I think you will not find more than 4-5 threads.
Don't worry Val, I will not hijack this thread. and please ... a humble request, do not stop yourself from the replying to any thread, come over from the fear of hijacked thread.
When I said why do we have ++, += operators I just wanted to say that to have shorts we make compiler like that which can understand these shorts.
You are saying for speed reading, Ya today after invent of C++ almost being more than 20 yrs, we can say speed reading. But not very long back when people used to come from Pascal/fortran background they used to find it confusing. Even in my class when we were learning C after pascal we all 100 students had problem with these shorts of 'C'. I am not able to recollect the name of author & book which said that we should use ++ instead + 1 for the sprit of 'C' as there is no compiler optimisation. When we were given assignment, our programs never had ++ or += operators till the program run. Once the program run then very few of us will change + 1 to ++ and + 5 to += 5. For them it was confusing. Even still I had a collegue which never use ++ or += as per him they are not readable.(He do not want to change himself)
I use net for e-mails and for resources, thats all. I do not chat generally , till I have to. When first time I saw these shorts & acronyms, I was also reacting like you guys, What the hell is this , is this english.... after reading 100 e-mails with u instead of You, now I do not have problem and even I use them. And I also think that they speed reading and able to comprehend words simply by looking at single letter.
I do not want others to use it if they do not want to use, I can not make others to reply for the post which uses shorts.... But the point is this and I think this is truth they are the people who are not able to change themselves with the time. and Yes majority of people are like this only. they must read "Who moved my chesse". It's really good book and can be applied here too.
Even I will appreciate Thomas Paul who is right in some way who says even do not use acronyms and himself does not use it. But young generation who are using net from the age of 10, if we really want to communicate with yuong generation then we must change our self(Even I know only 4-5 acronyms, but yes when ever I see one I try to find out the meaning by searching on net, or even asking to that man itself. and if I found it good enough then I start using them too)
But the point is this like today we find ++ more readable I am sure after 20 yrs more people will find u more readable and less confusing.
Val who is against these shorts for the reason hideous, then he should ask him self thah how many times he has been asked the question for the meaning of HTH.
I just want to say time is changing, and it is no way killing english, even I will say it is making english more popular.
Now I do not want to prove my points. because I can not (and do not want to) change any person as he has to change himself.
As I have said earlier "Everyone has a right to stick to his own foolish thought."
I think it is my fault that I am discussing some thing meaningful in this meaningless drivel forum.
Guys you can go ahead with your meaningless statements.
but I would have been more HAPPY if any one of you could even tried to proof there view, apart from there own weakness of not able to understand new (let us say) jargons/slangs which is coming up. Even they have made a shell or cover around them and do not want to see and come out of that shell.
My posts which did not use any shorts and acronyms were announced to be full of these. I do not remember that after my 2-3 initial post I used shorts or acronyms here to post.
I can not help these guys....
Though I like the discussion .... and yes I like everyone here(as every one has his own view and everyone is right in his own view).


"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
Originally posted by ravish kumar:
But I changed my self ... coz even if I might 40+ I would love to change myself.(I am not 40+..)

And I thought these are only Americans who think there is something wrong about being 40+ :roll:
Paul Stevens
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 17, 2001
Posts: 2823
Don't make me shut this thread down talking about age
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
on this page new characters are coming in to picture
I think now I must learn to do meaningless talks so that I can have 2-way effective communication here also.
Meghna gulzar's motion picture released last to last week, tonight we might go to watch FILHAAL(moment)
[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: ravish kumar ]
Valentin Crettaz
Gold Digger
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2001
Posts: 7610
rvsh,
a humble request, do not stop yourself from the replying to any thread, come over from the fear of hijacked thread
this has nothing to do with the fear of hijacking threads. This has to do with wasting time trying to explain things to people who don't have the ability to understand them. I hate wasting time.
yrs
At least u,y and v sound a little like the word they are replacing, but yrs??? Helllooooo, somebody home?
after reading 100 e-mails with u instead of You, now I do not have problem and even I use them
Then you are a very weak person...
readable I am sure after 20 yrs more people will find u more readable and less confusing.
Let me seriously doubt that. Amazing...
Val who is against these shorts for the reason hideous, then he should ask him self thah how many times he has been asked the question for the meaning of HTH.
First, I don't use HTH but HIH and for your interest only one person asked me that until today. Moreover, I frequently put HIH at the very end of my message. So, you have to admit that the meaning of my message does not depend on that acronym...
I think it is my fault that I am discussing some thing meaningful in this meaningless drivel forum.
No don't worry this is really the best place to discuss that.
[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: Valentin Crettaz ]

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Jamie Robertson
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 09, 2001
Posts: 1879

OK Ravish, this is my last shot at using logic to show you (as has been done in many of the past posts) the difference between using something like "TIA" compared to "u,r,i,v,y, etc".
Here it goes.
ASSUMPTION: You DO NOT understand any short forms. You do not know what TIA, IMHO,r,u,v,w,x,y,z...etc.
let us compare the communication process:
The sentence(using full english):
"In my humble opinion, I can not understand why we should argue about this subject. We should start talking about the fate of java compared to that of Microsoft dot net. Thank you in advance"
Translation 2 short forms: "in my humbl opinion, i cant understand y v shud rgu abt this subject. v shud strt talkin abt the f8 ov java compared 2 that of Microsoft dot net. thx in adv"
now since we are assuming that we can not understand short forms, we will only keep in the sentence those words in which we (might)understand:
"in my humbl opinion, i cant understand... this subject. talkin the java compared that Microsoft dot net. in adv" WHAT???
using the abbreviations:
"IMHO, I can't understand why we should argue about this subject. We should start talking about the fate of java compared to that of Microsoft dot net. TIA"
Eliminate the abbreviations:
", I can't understand why we should argue about this subject. We should start talking about the fate of java compared to that of Microsoft dot net. "
Well, what do you know, I can still effectively understand the entire message without comprehending some little add ons to the beginning and end of my sentence.
Case closed. There is a big difference between using short forms and abbreviations.

Jamie
Corey McGlone
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 20, 2001
Posts: 3271
Ravish,
When I said why do we have ++, += operators I just wanted to say that to have shorts we make compiler like that which can understand these shorts.

So are you saying that we should change the rules of the English language so that we teach all people (including the children in school) to understand shorts? I mean no offense by this, Ravish, but, obviously, Enlgish is not your primary language. Who are you to change the rules of the English language? Even I, who have spoken Enlgish all my life (and little else, unfortunately) wouldn't think of doing such a thing.
One other thing that I'd like to point out again is how what you write effects the perceptions people have of you as a person and as an IT professional. I had the pleasure of meeting a man that had such incredible control over the English language that, no matter what he was talking/writing about, you couldn't help but think the man was extremely intelligent. When you begin to use shorts, just the opposite occurs. The reader starts to think, does this person really think "you" is spelled "u"? Don't think this is odd, I had a friend in high school that honestly thought "school" was spelled "skul." A great guy, but he wasn't one of the guys I rated highest on the intellectual totem pole. So, how do you want to be perceived? If you use shorts, I can guarantee that I'm not going to hold you in the highest light, which is very unfortunate. There are only a couple things that I know about you: you're involved in computers and you've learned a new language. Just on the basis that you've learned a new language, I would have to say that you are more intelligent than me but, when you use that language improperly, by using shorts, I begin to question that assumption. So, how do you want to be perceived by the readers of your posts and how do you think others actually perceive you?
Corey


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Corey McGlone
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Joined: Dec 20, 2001
Posts: 3271
Jamie,
As favorable as I am for not using short forms, I think this example is a bit contrived. I'm sure, if someone tried, they could generate a sentence in which using acronyms made the sentence unreadable.
TTBOMK it's a CWOT studying to be a SCJP, however, IMO, getting real experience is great. OTOH, YMMV.
Hmmm...
"...it's a...studying to be a Sun Ceritifed Java Programmer, however,...,getting real experience is great. ...,....
Real sentence:
"To the best of my knowledge, it's a complete waste of time studying to be a Sun Certified Java Programmer, however, in my opinion, getting real experience is great. On the other hand, your mileage may vary."
Doesn't make much sense, does it? And I even presumed everyone here is familiar with SCJP (as this is a Java forum).
I think the problem here is simply using too many acronyms. Too many deviations from the norm makes something unreadable. This goes for shorts as well as acronyms. Too many shorts will make something unreadable.
Corey
Dave Vick
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 10, 2001
Posts: 3244
OK, here is my last little bit effort in this entire thing - lets try an experiment.
Go back and read Jamie' post with the different sentences in...
read the very first one out load see how it flows, one word to the next...
now read the one with the shorts in it out loud...
I don't know about you but I sounded like I was stuttering.
This is the same thing that happens in your mind when you read them - read a nice sentence that you can understand and you have a beter chance of communicating with the author. If you have to read a sentence that your mind keeps tripping over then you have a much lower chance of successfully communicating with the author.
It's not all about rules, its not even all about being professional, the key point here is that if you want to effectively communicate you should do it in a way other people can understand. If you choose not to then you can't complain if you dont get responses, you can't complain if everyone thinks you're an idiot, and you certainly can't complain that no one wants to respond to your posts.
Why should I ask someone to clarify a question when there is an equal chance that I wont be able to understand the new one any beter then the first. Easier just to leave it and let someone else that's really bored handle it.
Dave
Ok, I'm done with this topic, unless someone says something really stupid and I can't resist
Valentin Crettaz
Gold Digger
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2001
Posts: 7610
Ok, I'm done with this topic, unless someone says something really stupid and I can't resist

Same for me
Jamie Robertson
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 09, 2001
Posts: 1879

Corey:
in my earlier posts I have stated that abbreviations(IMHO, etc...) 99.99% of the time are used in the manner in which I have used them in the sentence. I challenge you to find 2 posts in any forum at Javaranch(dated previous to this post ) in which someone has abused abbreviations in the manner that Roy et al. have used short forms or in the manner in which you have made your example. I guarantee you won't find it. On the other hand 99.99% of people using short forms(u,r,...etc) do abuse them in this manner. That is the only difference between them and is the only reason abbreviations are acceptable in this forum. I'm sure if people used abbreviations repeatedly in sentences like
TTBOMK it's a CWOT studying to be a SCJP, however, IMO, getting real experience is great. OTOH, YMMV
that there would already be a topic in meaningless drivel posted by me called
"TTBOMK it's a CWOT studying to be a SCJP, however, IMO, getting real experience is great. OTOH, YMMV... what's with this loser lingo?"
enough is enough. Stop the insanity! I am right and every one else is wrong.
Jamie out.
Corey McGlone
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 20, 2001
Posts: 3271
What is it with this 99.9999...% thing going around here? Are people doing massive studies between posts in order to get this information, or is this the classic, "If I use this number, I can basically say that everyone knows what I'm talking about and, if they don't, I can say, ahhh, must have been that .0000001%"?
There are very few things that 99.99999% of all people know. How many college freshmen know where the Equator is? I had to take a geography course in college and I think you'd be surprised that the answer isn't really as close to 99.99999% as you'd hope.
But, despite my ranting, I agree, acronyms are seldom, if ever used in this way.
Corey
Michael Ernest
High Plains Drifter
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 25, 2000
Posts: 7292

The Equator is in Ecuador. I'm 99.99999% positive.
(Does this qualify, VC? DV?)
[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: Michael Ernest ]

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David O'Meara
Rancher

Joined: Mar 06, 2001
Posts: 13459

I've deliberately avoided this thread because these short forms annoy me so much. (avoided except for two deliberate digs. No-one is perfect)
My view: they are childish, like the 'leet script kiddy' thing. Leave them to the 12 year olds
Personally i started with short forms when I was doind lots and lots of real-time chat (irc, mud/mush and the like. it was a long time ago). I did the whole brb, rtfm, imho/imnsho thing, but then i got over it.
The two things the contracted forms had going for them was that they were faster and easier to type, and they promoted a culture of elitism.
I'd argue that based on those two points they have no place at The 'Ranch. (and that wasn't technically a contraction) If you include the fact that visitors caom from around the globe and a number of original languages and it makes communication more difficult, I'd tend to push a zero-tolerence. (but then, I tend to get a bit militant at times )
I hate qualifying opinions but: These are my opinions and I'm not trying to attack or offend anyone.
DOM
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371


OK Ravish, this is my last shot at using logic to show you

My last is over . Now I am not going to say anything in favour of anything. I know what are the plus points. I could not pursue you guys .
AW I believe communication should be in a way which can be understood by both communicator.
I can not smoke here but can go outside and can have poison and kill myself.

after reading 100 e-mails with u instead of You, now I do not have problem and even I use them
Then you are a very weak person...

I found them good and now I do not have problem so I use it. I can not follow old things for the sake of it. I like chages and change myself. I can not stick to old things in the name of saving culture/professioanlism/languge.
And if you are not able to change your self then it is your weakness.
Originally posted by Corey McGlone:
Enlgish is not your primary language. Who are you to change the rules of the English language?

I did not comment on this before but this is second time I am gettign such remarks.

do only people whose primary language is English has right to change the spelling of COLOUR to COLOR ?
Even changing grammer ??

Please no argument on this , search google for more information.
Originally posted by Jason Menard : posted February 11, 2002 08:59 AM

you have several people for whom English is their native language telling you that this means of communicating in English is not proper

in US/UK any other country where English is native language, do they not use these shorts/acronyms ??? Helllooooo, somebody home?
I do not know why but in several post I read that english is my native language OR english is not my native language. DO NOT KNOW WHY people write this??(I am asking to myself)
I wish you are getting my message. who ever is using these is not trying to malign English.
I live for myself, I can not change myself for other's view. If I like then change and if do not like then not change myself.(No arguement/comment on this Philosphy).
I do not judge people by there way of communication, there spelling knoweldge, or the way they speak.
I can not stick to any thing for the label of Professional.
If things comes to professional then I am not less then anyone else cause I know that also.
I can give 100 examples, you can give 100 examples ( I gave one, the way some one tried to give. ) This will lead to no where.
Originally posted by mahadevan raja: posted February 11, 2002 09:48 PM

those who r not able 2 understand the short forms,it wud be better if u request the bartenders to open a seperate discussion forum for English.i think this wud be more helpful for u all,i dont understand y u all r making this a big issue,if u r not able to understand then ask the person who posted it to be more clear.
me not getting whats wrong in it.
anyhow.....

Can not you guys understand this? Is there any ambiguity ?? Please come up with any second meaning
Dave Vick, do not read jamie mail, I can also give 100 eamples like that... please read above post by mahadevan raja. Do not you understand it?
Shorts 99.99% of the time are used in the manner in which mahadevan have used them in the above sentence.

I've deliberately avoided this thread

Closing your eyes would not help you to fight storm(wind)
I did not reply individualy so that this thread do not come under the category of hijacked thread.
but another post will follow this post, cause that will have different points.
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Those who think that they want to act or write like professional, do they change themselves??
Do they start writing I am instead of I'm even after showing them that what is professioanl way of writing by providing links.
NO... they can not change themself.
Even you proof some thing, they will not change cause they fear change, can not accept the change.
Repeating (for Source, search it in previous posts)

It's = contraction of "it is" Proper usage: "It's too early to tell if this will become the accepted method." Notice that it is rather informal to use "it's" in a professional paper. Better to write out "it is."

If you want to write like professional then please first learn what is professionalism and if some one tell you what is professionalism then even do not say thanks but atleast try to follow it.
and just to cause more outrage: there's no such thing as 'American English'

Please do not tell us your wrong informations, and if some one prooves you that there is American english then have guts to say thanks and accept your fault. And do not say "I've deliberately avoided this thread "
it is just to cause more outrage.
Why you guys can not face the truth.
and Who thinks change of any language is event of pre-historic age, then please contact some good Professor in litreture in your local university. I wish that he will help you out.
Who has given a right to comment on someone's knowledge of language?(Is it professionalism ?)
I know better how is my english??
Really no hard feelings, but yes disappointed, cause even you all do not know what are rules you have made for yourself, and if you have made then try to follow that.
If you like Pizza I can not make you to like Burgers (But if you feel Chilli to be hot for you then please do not stop me for having it, as I like chilli)
Please Val put lock on the thread.
David O'Meara
Rancher

Joined: Mar 06, 2001
Posts: 13459

I've deliberately avoided this thread because these short forms annoy me so much.

Thank you for quoting me out of context.
My point is that I completely disagree with use of contractions, especially in the 'y ur n da hse' sense, and I was unlikely to present my views in the form I would prefer.
I would rather take the time to present my feelings in a neutral manner even if I feel strongly. I didn't participate since I didn't have time to form the correct response.
Either way, have a nice weekend, I'm going home
DOM.
Michael Ernest
High Plains Drifter
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 25, 2000
Posts: 7292

I think it can be simply stated that professionalism begins with intent. Among the things that demonstrate intent is clarity, not correctness, of expression.
Academics who like the kind of argument that Ravish is making never seem to tire of making this rather obvious point: there is no absolute standard for correctness in a living language. One reason Latin makes a good langauge to study is precisely for the reason that it's "dead," that is, no longer changing with the times.
The test is clarity. It's not a question of saying something according to some accepted grammatical and syntactical style sheet, but saying something as well as one can to promote understanding.
Short forms serve different masters: they favor brevity over completeness; they reduce trite, often-used words and phrases to a bare minimum (IMHO, YMMV, AFAIK); they expedite typing, and are popular in IRC and messaging systems because it's easier to complete an expression 'in time' with rapidly evolving discussions.
Short forms are popular for users who really have nothing to add to conversations except incidental commentary. Smilies or emoticons fill the same need. And for some strange reason, short forms are supposed to be hip. It's the kind of hip that comes from watching people identify with each other because they all appear to have magically picked up the same style independently of each other. We call that state of awareness 'adolescence' in these United States.
It's a straw argument to assert that incorrect usage by those who preach 'sounding professional' is hypocrisy, and hypocrisy, once exposed, somehow legitimizes the use of short forms. That's a mighty big leap in logic. The falseness of one argument does not prove its opposite, particularly when the advocate of the opposing argument makes the false argument to bolster his own point.
Short forms are just another pidgin of the language. Pidgin forms focus on being quick, functional, barebones. One could argue that clarity is nested in that somewhere, but a pidgin's range of expression is so limited that clarity is achieved merely by restricting what can be said. That's not a promotion of understanding, that's a reduction of it. Those of us who argue for 'professionalism' here want to keep the range of ideas as wide open as possible, but also maintain a form that, while perhaps tedious compared to farting around with spelling or mixing in numbers with characters, nonetheless renders things as plain as possible.
[ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: Michael Ernest ]
mahadevan raja
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 96
hey jamie,
i think u r the one who started this thread,gr8,it has at present 4 pages,but to be frank my quote has been the root cause for this thread.and poor ravish,he is getting hot i think so.
someone had commented that english is not ur primary lang,so u dont have the rights to change it.
nope,this is wrong,who r u to tell that,if u can understand the post ,read it,elz shift to the next one.that was not fair.
y has javaranch launched this meaningless drivel,to share ur good and happy feelings,but not to comment on others language.
ok fine, for u english is the primary lang and for us it is not,but ultimately one language got us together,that is java,did v learn java in our second language,no not all,i think u wud have understood what i mean to say.
so good day.byeeeee


SPECIALIST-WCSV5.1 Implementation.<br />SYSTEMS EXPERT-WAS4.0 Administration
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by David O'Meara:

Thank you for quoting me out of context.

I think you want to say that I did not copy this:
"these short forms annoy me so much"
Yes, I did not copy this becaus out of 138 mails more than 100 mails are in the form you like, I mean without shorts/acronyms.
Yes, we were discussing about use of shorts and acronyms but without using them. Like others you have to come out of your shell too.
[ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: ravish kumar ]
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Michael Ernest:


Unknowingly you are favouring me.
YMMV - ??? (I do not know, but will find out, and if it is good enough then I will use it.)
Originally posted by Michael Ernest:
It's a straw argument to assert that incorrect usage by those who preach 'sounding professional' is hypocrisy, and hypocrisy, once exposed, somehow legitimizes the use of short forms.

Very ture, and that is why I posted these thing in other post and tell everyone that
Originally posted by Ravish:
but another post will follow this post, cause that will have different points.

So I am not relating these two.
Originally posted by Michael Ernest:
The falseness of one argument does not prove its opposite, particularly when the advocate of the opposing argument makes the false argument to bolster his own point

Very true, BUT will you please tell me any false argument given to bolster my point.
Originally posted by Michael Ernest:
Short forms are popular for users who really have nothing to add to conversations except incidental commentary

Will you please elaborate this ?? English is not my native/primary language ?
Originally posted by Michael Ernest:
Short forms are just another pidgin of the language

Please correct me if I am wrong but I think pidgin is used in the context of language. So "pidgin of the language" ... ???
Originally posted by Michael Ernest:
Those of us who argue for 'professionalism' here want to keep the range of ideas as wide open as possible, but also maintain a form that....

They claim to be professional to the extend that they claim to search there posts with unprofessional(in there own term) words.
[ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: ravish kumar ]
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by mahadevan raja:
poor ravish,he is getting hot i think so.

Nope, I m not at all I luv discussions on good issues.
Paul Stevens
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 17, 2001
Posts: 2823
This is the thread that never ends. i g o a o m f.
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
This thread is dead now.
Nathan Pruett
Bartender

Joined: Oct 18, 2000
Posts: 4121

The argument that short forms are the 'wave of the future' (or the 'wv uv t futr') is ill-informed. I remember an argument of something like 'in 20 years people will think of short forms as more readable than the long form of a word.' I agree that languages evolve over time, but for something like short forms to be universally accepted would take quite a bit over 20 years. Also, for them to be accepted in general language, they would have to be present in all forms of communication. So books, magazines, etc. would have to be written in short forms also. This will never happen because short forms are horrible for communication... all they are good for is for saving 1 or 2 keystrokes per word and 1 or 2 seconds of typing. The only place short forms have ever seen any large amount of use is in real time chat. Any persistant communication places a larger requirement on understandablity of the message... not the speed at which it can be placed at the disposal of the reader.

-Nate

P.S. - I'm not 40+ either... my age doesn't really matter, but just to illustrate... I'm 25 and have been using computers since I was about 8. The only place I've seen large use of 'shorts' have been in real time chat. Anywhere else, people just assume you are illiterate.


-Nate
Write once, run anywhere, because there's nowhere to hide! - /. A.C.
Jamie Robertson
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 09, 2001
Posts: 1879

just when you think the thread is dead!
On another note, is the Ranch going to take a stance against short forms to ensure the professionalism of the site or is the Ranch just going to take a stance of silence?
If you just take a stance of silence, new comers that are being ignored will not know the reason for the non-responses and think that people at the ranch are imbiciles or the next time they post, they will write their messages the same way and be ignored. Should we inform the person being ignored as to the reason they are being ignored(nicely of course! )
just wondering
Jamie
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Originally posted by Jamie Robertson:
If you just take a stance of silence, new comers that are being ignored will not know the reason for the non-responses and think that people at the ranch are imbiciles or the next time they post, they will write their messages the same way and be ignored.
Or maybe they will see that everyone else's post is getting answered except for theirs. And then maybe they will either develop and inferiority complex and go away or realize that a professional forum should be addressed in a professional way and correct their posts.


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Jamie Robertson
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 09, 2001
Posts: 1879

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Or maybe they will see that everyone else's post is getting answered except for theirs. And then maybe they will either develop and inferiority complex and go away or realize that a professional forum should be addressed in a professional way and correct their posts.

The little kid that nobody will play with
Dave Vick
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 10, 2001
Posts: 3244
Originally posted by Jamie Robertson:
If you just take a stance of silence, new comers that are being ignored will not know the reason for the non-responses and think that people at the ranch are imbiciles or the next time they post, they will write their messages the same way and be ignored.

Myself, I just post a reply that says that I can't understadn what they are trying and to say and that if they repost it in a clearer manner then they might get some results.
Dave
Michael Ernest
High Plains Drifter
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 25, 2000
Posts: 7292

RK: Unknowingly you are favouring me.
ME: Quite the reverse, I'm afraid, but since I can't expect you to unknowingly know that, I didn't bother to mention it.
RK: YMMV - ??? (I do not know, but will find out, and if it is good enough then I will use it.)
ME: Your Mileage May Vary. I.e., "no guarantee it will work for you the way it works for me."
RK: Will you please tell me any false argument given to bolster my point.
ME: That the so-called professionalism crusade is primarily a call for correct, rather than clear, language.
MEq: Short forms are popular for users who really have nothing to add to conversations except incidental commentary
RK: Will you please elaborate this ?? English is not my native/primary language ?
ME: What Nathan said: short forms are used for expedience in chatting. In 'serious' discussion, one should be able to presume that you have time and space to complete your points, not to mention the opportunity to revise. So, take your time; be as clear and complete as you can.
RK: Please correct me if I am wrong but I think pidgin is used in the context of language. So "pidgin of the language"

ME: Take 'pidgin' as I use it to mean a 'distillation' or 'reduction' of the language.
[ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: Michael Ernest ]
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Originally posted by Roy Ben Ami:
no, i wouldnt use short forms writing to my boss but i wouldnt use these words either:
if it is THAT HARD for u to undersatnd u and y
then u dont need to answer my questions or look at my replies. it has nothing to do with laziness but just for the sake of argument ill admit im lazy! so what?!? it offends u that much?

basically what is the problem?
Dale DeMott
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 02, 2000
Posts: 515
I agree. This isn't ICQ or a chat room. Take the time and fully type out your words. It would be the equivalant of making your variables 2 letters long instead of using the lenth of the words to the fullest. Could you imagine going back to the Apple IIe days when you could only have variables 2 long.
CT = 4;
is actually
cost = 4;
I mean really. If you can. We are not 12 anymore. Type out your words!


By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail.<br />Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)
Dirk Schreckmann
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 10, 2001
Posts: 7023
Hello,

I've got 2 cents to add...

Languages evolve. It won't be stopped.

What does a language do for us? It provides an understood strutural platform from which to communicate ideas efficiently (not unlike Java code conventions).

What happens when we try to evolve (change) a language too fast? You are not efficiently understood.

Am I saying do it or don't do it? No.

Just Good Luck,
-Dirk Schreckmann


[How To Ask Good Questions] [JavaRanch FAQ Wiki] [JavaRanch Radio]
Michael Ernest
High Plains Drifter
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 25, 2000
Posts: 7292

To head off one possible direction Dirk may be going: reduction and evolution of language are not synonymous.
Dirk Schreckmann
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 10, 2001
Posts: 7023
Ha!
Do elaborate.
Thank You
John Dale
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 22, 2001
Posts: 399
I'd rather read meaningless drivel than posts with the ad hoc short forms. I don't read either very often.
Writers need to be considerate of readers. Short forms may be appropriate to chat, where the ratio of readers to writers is small. But in public forums or publications, much more time is spent reading than writing, providing a good reason for the notion that the writers be considerate of the readers.
[ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: John Dale ]
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
will be back.....
Dave Vick
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 10, 2001
Posts: 3244
Please just let this die!!! please...
Roy Ben Ami
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2002
Posts: 732
i second that!
(oops just kept it alive once more)
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Let me again try to conclude it:
We must communicate in a language which can be understood by both communicators
but I have also said that if someone wants to communicate then language is not a problem.
So the problem is solved. If you can understand the post then reply, if you can not then either ask that guy, what he wants or ignore it.
You can not wake up a guy who is not sleeping.
So if you understand a post with shorts then reply else can ask or ignore.
I can not conclude better than that.
Professinally if you understand the post with shorts then u should not reply.
look, I did not provide any points in favour of shorts (I used u instead of YOU)
 
I agree. Here's the link: http://aspose.com/file-tools
 
subject: Y do u do this 2 ur posts