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Indian arranged marriages

R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by john wesley:
You know guys, I was wondering what university education has taught people � to write long meaning less posts ?? beating round the bush all the time ???


thats why I agreed with you after your second post, but these useless fellow still trying to tell you something which you 'already' know.

Again, repeating myself, "whatever" you say I do agree with that.


"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
Manmohan Singhania
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 19, 2004
Posts: 55
Originally posted by john wesley:

You think I�d go to those mafia like cops ??? you must be kidding.

.....jw

Ok ,love child.cool down.We can make following conclusions:
1)Every cop in India is of mafia type.They don't register any complaint related to dowry.Instead they demand some share of dowry from bride's parents.
2)In each and every marriage in India,groom's parents demand hefty dowry.and bride's parents give it to them.
Happy?


Jayalalitha is my girl friend.<br />KarunaNidhi is my boy friend
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8904

.They don't register any complaint related to dowry


Cops will ask for money before they register the complaint.

Child is talking a lot.


Groovy
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8904

Again, repeating myself, "whatever" you say I do agree with that.


Dave Lenton
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Joined: Jan 20, 2005
Posts: 1241
Originally posted by Manish Hatwalne:


Exactly!!!

However, the thing is that - sometimes your parents don't know what is best for you, and sometimes they do. Likekwise, it is possible that sometimes you can judge what is best for you and sometimes you go wrong in this judgement.

The probability of Indian arranged marriages (with parents involved) working out well is high because often parents really know their children & prospective bride/groom well, they are very concerned about well being of their son/daughter and they have experince, wisdom, maturity and prudnce to see the couple after few years when initial physical attraction is faded. This insight of parents might be lacking in some youngsters if they make their own decision without any suggestions from family.

rgds,
- Manish


This would be good if parents did know their children very well, but what about cases where they don't? They may think they do, but how many teenagers (and older) have, at some point, said to their parents "You don't understand me!"

Certainly I think the advice of the parents is a good thing, but the point where this advice becomes (deliberately or not) undue pressure upon a person to marry another person then its not so good. Obviously in a country as big as India, there are both of these situations (and everything in-between) happening. I suppose that with that many people there are going to be some more liberal places where people have a lot of freedom in choosing their spouse, and less liberal areas where people are pressured into marrying the people their parents choose (or are themselves pressured into choosing).

The probability of Indian arranged marriages (with parents involved) working out well is high


This is something which is often said about arranged marriages.... but it depends upon the measure of success for a marriage. Is it the low divorce rate, or the happiness of the married couple? There is certainly a low divorce rate in cultures with arranged marriages, but this could be to do with cultural pressure against divorces. I'd say that happiness is a better measure of the success of a marriage, but unfortunately this is impossible to measure.


There will be glitches in my transition from being a saloon bar sage to a world statesman. - Tony Banks
Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
Divorce rate in love marriage in India is more than that of arrangd marriages.I read this somewhere.
In arranged marriage,parents/marriage beuaros suggest many proposals out of which you have to select one.These suggestions have some value.Suggestions are made based on similarity between educational/financial/family background.But his/her behavior is completely hidden here.One needs to ask the questions in such a way that that behavior will be known in shortest time(Thats why I started thread! )
In love marriages too ,this behavior is not completely known until marriage.Otherwise,you would not have seen higher divorced rate.


MH
john wesley
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Joined: Feb 14, 2005
Posts: 47
Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:


[QB]
Again, repeating myself, "whatever" you say I do agree with that.


[/QB]


Mr.RKS please explain this guy


"Let the one among you who has never sinned throw the first stone.." -A Hero
Manmohan Singhania
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 19, 2004
Posts: 55
Pradeep,JW although a love child,he is self proclaimed smart ass.So listen to him.
[ February 16, 2005: Message edited by: Manmohan Singh ]
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by john wesley:
Mr.RKS please explain this guy


Originally posted by Manmohan Singh:
Pradeep,JW although a love child,he is self proclaimed smart a##.So listen to him.
R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Dave Lenton:
I'd say that happiness is a better measure of the success of a marriage, but unfortunately this is impossible to measure.


I think one can choose his family as example and give this answer.

Seriously this question has really some meaning, I feel that if not 100% arranged marriages can be quoted as successful marriage, from my personal experience I feel that 90% are successful. With successful, I mean couple is happy and is not looking happiness outside the marriage/family. [its just a personal observation of urban and little bit rural India]

Or I think man and woman are designed[brought up] in such a way that they dont want to look beyond their family for happiness.
And as Tina said, it does not matter whether you choose your partner or your parents choose, after marriage life is same in both cases. Once married you are married forever.. to exaggerate at least for seven births
Sonny Gill
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Joined: Feb 02, 2002
Posts: 1211

Also, there is a difference in expectations when comparing an arranged marriage vs. love marriage.

Probabely, in an arranged marriage, the most important thing you are looking for in your spouse is that she be a good parent for your kids, get along well with your family, and be a suitable companion in your personal and social life. Whereas, in case of a love marriage, the expectations could be a totally different kind.

As someone said, arranged marriages are successful, because you start from 0, and so can only go up , where as in a love marriage, there is as much chance of the (existing) love withering away as of its growing.
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8904

Originally posted by R K Singh:
[QB][/QB]
Manish Hatwalne
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Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Posts: 2578

Happiness is a better measure of success of a marriage. I don't think rate is as high as 90%. It's difficult to measure but it wouldn't be more than 70%. But the main reason here is the prospective bride and groom don't often don't understand what is it that they should be really looking for.

Often girl's expectations can be summed up as - "well settled & understanding" and men seldom go beyond physical appearance. Those who know what they want & what is it that they are looking for and look for those personality traits in their spouse, are more likely to be happy. Being happy in a relationship is a complex thing! I can elaborate more, but maybe some other time....

What's termed as "beating around the bush" is probably a more matured, comprehensive way of thinking and looking at life; that accepts existence of various paths/ways/approaches. And for all we know, there could be infinite ways of doing things, how can one say only A, B, C are fine???

As one becomes more sensible/mature he realizes that he shouldn't (rather he can't) perceive things as "multiple choice list" where answer/perception must be one of the given choices. It s often possible hat the answer/perception/approach is entirely different and far more descriptive/massive from all that we had thought of in these multiple-choice options. Real life stuff is more descriptive and takes some learning to comprehend. Grady Booch mentions that in "classification of knowledge" on tends to associate/compare unknown things (thoughts, ideas etc included) with something that he is already familiar with. As he gains more knowledge, he learns to differentiate a new thing from he already known stuff and understand it properly. Some people never learn....

To put this in Java language, assume we know Object class, we know that URL is also an Object type (classification of knowledge, URL is unknown) But if one always views URL as only an Object (using object reference? ) and proclaims that toString() called on it represent that URL (which he says is an object) in its entirety, then it's his limitation/perception. In that case, he wouldn't be able to connect to remote server and read stuff from there. Gosh, that would also require understanding URLConnection, IO, so many things... So much beating around the bush!!! Easy way is -

URL unknown = new URL ("We don�t care");
Object obj = unknown; //no compiler error here, so I am right!!!
//I can give stats that above assignment never fails

and then take this "obj", call primitive methods and make noise. Simple, huh??

Learning about the unknown is not simple, but it's definitely worth the trouble!!

Heck, why am I trying to talk sense here? This thread was rocking few days ago, and now because somebody decided to create noise it's going haywire!!! Who is taking sense and who is talking nonsense is for everyone to see!!! Of course, it requires some level of maturity to distinguish!!

- Manish
Manish Hatwalne
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Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Posts: 2578

Originally posted by Dave Lenton:

This would be good if parents did know their children very well, but what about cases where they don't? They may think they do, but how many teenagers (and older) have, at some point, said to their parents "You don't understand me!"


Most do!!!
Like I said in my first post here, not all parents are connected with their chidren's world and the generatio gap keeps increasing in such cases.

- Manish
K Maya
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 16, 2005
Posts: 2
Marriages are made in heaven. There are advantages and disadvantages in arranged marriages. Arranged marriage is like taking a lottery ticket. Sometimes it work but if didn�t work both parties doesn�t have much option to get out of it. They just have to live. In front of society they are happy couples. Inside they will be burning. Bride�s family takes mostly around 99% marriage expenses. If the girl is unhappy after the marriage she doesn�t have the option to go back her house because she may have younger sisters so family will say God what will happen to younger sister .who is going to marry your younger sister.

If the girl has a good job and the girl is good looking and family status is good then the girl will sell fast in marriage market. But if the girl doesn�t have these qualifications then even from the childhood the pressure mounting on the girl child is too much sometimes it will lead to depression.

Nowadays in cities if the girl is independent and she is not happy with marriage she goes for divorce. That is why in cities divorce rate is higher than villages. Even if it is not girl fault the Indian society view the girl somebody who is very arrogant.

In joint families girls have to work like a slave making food for all. But no option to get away from it.

In India if someone gave a birth to boy there is a smile in parents face on the other hand if it is a girl and especially if the girl is from lower middle class her parents start worrying from her birth onwards.


Previously doctors were getting highest dowry but when the dot com era started sw engg started getting Millions as dowry esp. guys from Andra . So basically girls from rich family started selling fast.

In kerals prev there was a gulf era even now its existing. Only few can take their wife with them for others they have to leave their wife in kerala. They come for 30 days leave once in a year make a baby and leave. These poor wives have to live in husbands house sometimes sexually abused by hus relatives. But who cares.

How many sw guys in JR got married by bearing marriage expense from their pocket?

Everyone have the mentality if I get something free why should I deny it? Or my parents spend this much money for educating me so I should get reimbursed.

Its time for Indians to change their orthodox mentality and customs.


If everyone is happy with the marriage why there is so much aids victims in india???

Just a thought???
Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
Originally posted by K Maya:
Marriages are made in heaven.
If everyone is happy with the marriage why there is so much aids victims in india???

May be that is also decided in heaven
Manish Hatwalne
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Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Posts: 2578

Originally posted by K Maya:
Everyone have the mentality if I get something free why should I deny it?


On a lighter note, does that apply to girls as well? I mean some of them feel if my husaband is working & earning, why shouldn't I enjoy at his expense (pun intended)???

I have this classmate who is not working after marriage, and her explanation - "It's so boring yaar, you've got to work so much in software industry, I am used to sleeping in the afternoon by now!!!" She had love-marriage and no dowry and she is not an exception, at least in urban India.

I also want to have fun with my sopuse's money and sleep in the afternoon!!! (bliss!!! ) Anybody for men liberation in India???

- Manish
[ February 16, 2005: Message edited by: Manish Hatwalne ]
Manish Hatwalne
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Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Posts: 2578

Originally posted by K Maya:
Previously doctors were getting highest dowry but when the dot com era started sw engg started getting Millions as dowry esp. guys from Andra . So basically girls from rich family started selling fast.


Selling fast???
Does that mean that the guy is paying money here???
Manish Hatwalne
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Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Posts: 2578

Originally posted by K Maya:
Its time for Indians to change their orthodox mentality and customs.


Would it be beter if we rephrase it as -
It's time for some Indians to change their orthodox mentality and customs.

If the girl is independent enough, why can't she stand for her own convictions? Why not decide that she won't marry anyone seeking dowry?? Why wait for change of heart of these "greedy, dowry seeking, insesitive" Indian men?

Nothing changes unless one is wiling to take some action about changing it.

- Manish
Tina Desai
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 365
Originally posted by Dave Lenton:


Could it be possible that there are situations where people feel pressured by society and family to accept their parents' decision, even if they do not feel comfortable with it? Even though a person may be theoretically free to turn down a marriage recommendation, they may not want to do so if they feel that people will think less of them because of it. While it may hurt the parents to turn down an arranged marriage, should a person spend their life in an unhappy marital situation just to please their parents?


It will be a lie to say that it does not happen. People do feel pressured many a times. The process itself is so awkward for everybody. Also the population is so much that even if 2% people feel pressured, it would mean quite a lot people do get pressured.

Originally posted by Dave Lenton:

There was a time when this kind of situation happened in the west as well - people were often pressured to marry into the same social class, and arranged marriages (particularly among the wealthy) were common. Eventually this trend faded in the west, but perhaps this was because of a cultural tie to the practice that was not as strong as the cultural tie in India.

hmm.. only thing I would say here is that you used a proper word. A cultural tie. This is what we grow in. Isn't it? Everyone does.

Originally posted by Dave Lenton:

I'm personally glad this practice did fade away here. While I value the opinion of my parents, and am very grateful for the upbringing and financial assistance they have given me, should I choose to spend the rest of my life living with someone I would not make that choice based upon their recommendation. I want the choice of life partner to be based upon things like friendship, character compatibility, and yes, love.... not upon social pressure and how well our families get on. Marriage, to me, is about how well two people connect and work together, not about how two families get on. If my marriage was arranged to please two families, I may feel slightly used by them.

Although I must repeat - I say this from a western point of view, and I have little exposure to Indian culture and find some aspects of it hard to understand. Hopefully threads like this, with contributions from people around the world, can help us to better understand each other. Isn't it great how different we all are!


Your explanations are making it easier to explain really. Thanks for a sincere effort on your part to understand this.
Im speaking for an average Indian here and what we see as 'normal'. I myself is married by my choice. But there are all sorts of cases around. Few friends had arranged marriages and few had love marriages.

For us, marriage IS a bond between two families. It has to do something the way we spend our lives ahead. The girl goes to the boy's family after marriage. And they all stay together. For a girl's parents, its like giving the girl to a family. There are all chances that they all stay together for the rest of their lives. We have festivals popping up every now and then, in which we all HAVE to get together. In short, once married, it becomes a matter of two families, we like it or not.

There have been many many cases when girls were burnt alive or beaten to death by in-laws asking for more dowery etc. Parents are more likely to spot the greedy parents of such a boy than the girl who is head over heels in the love of this boy.

Generally, people marry only once. If someone loses his/her spouse above 45-50 years of age, he/she generally spends the rest of the lives alone.. well in a family with kids and grandkids and all. but not re-marrying or engaging with someone else. May be that's the reason its done so carefully.
Its a once in a lifetime thing. Make a mistake and you will have to live with it.

People who lose their partners much early, may be in their 30s, are most likely to go for a second marriage. Does not mean they will do it. Im not a proper person to give an estimate as to how many actually do get re-married out of this lot, but the ads are there in the papers and all so they are atleast up for it.

Girls are protected all the time. Its rather uncommon to find a single unmarried girl staying alone in an apartment. Its not as safe out there as in other countries. In the metros, now-a-days the cases might be different. And Im not denying one off cases as exceptions are
everywhere.
But in my own town, I will not be out alone after 8pm. Many Indian women who travel abroad do cummute even late at night. So its not about what a woman thinks but what kind of soceity she has to face in India.

The reason for this protective approach is that God forbid something happens, no one marrys the girl. Atleast, it becomes difficult to marry her off. With the boys and their parents being allergic to such things, its a risk that the girls parents dont dare to take.

Someone noted that the girl was accompanied by her mother/aunt when invited in a hotel to talk etc. Its about being protective I guess, not 'necessarily' backward.

So it has to do with the kind of lives we live, the kind of soceity we are in.

It might not be a full answer but hope it will make few things more clear to you.

Regards,
Tina


Alongwith being a good coder, try to be a good professional as well!
Tina Desai
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 365
Dowery was thought synonymous to murder even 3 decades back. Having said that, its disheartning to see people picking it up as a topic of fun.
Manish Hatwalne
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Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Posts: 2578

Generally speaking, I think whatever Tina says in these 2 posts is right.

A lot depends on what sort of upbringing you had and the things practiced in your own house. My dad din't take dowry 3 decades ago and none of my cousins did. One cousin had love-marriage with a girl that his family knew since childhood, other had kind of arranged marriage that I described 5 years ago. They both discussed and decided among themselves in the period of 2/3 months and parents were only involved at later stage.

It's going to be a bit of rough generalization, and I do not intend to hurt anyone with this - I think south India is a bit more rigid/orthodox as far as customs go. Some part of north India and MP have very MCP society. I think metros and west India, Calcuta are more open/liberal. This is just generalization, and I know that there would be exceptions here.

- Manish
Manish Hatwalne
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Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Posts: 2578

Originally posted by Tina Desai:
But in my own town, I will not be out alone after 8pm. Many Indian women who travel abroad do cummute even late at night.


Which town is this? Not surprised, but just curious...

We get shocked as hell if my sis shows up at home before 9.30 PM. Yes, there is someone to escort her if it's after 11 PM, but not otherwise.

- Manish
Bhau Mhatre
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Joined: Jun 11, 2003
Posts: 199
john wesley: Instead of talking about what I said you, guys have drilled down to the origins and different forms of dowry and made a mini thesis out of it. While I was just talking about the current monstrous manifestation of dowry in India.

Aaw okey, I thought my earlier post pretty much agreed that the tradtion exists. Nope? However, it exist in varrying forms, sizes, and shapes. In contrast to the simplified scene that you described earlier using six characters.

Just wanted to add some color to a black and white discussion.


K Maya: ...
Manish Hatwalne: Why wait for change of heart of these "greedy, dowry seeking, insesitive" Indian men?

Hey people, since when did dowry turn into a men v/s women thing? In almost all dowry related crimes you will find that the victim's mother-in-law was the main culprit. Tihar Jail in Delhi (one of the most famous jails in the country) has a separate "mother-in-law" wing for women who have harassed and even killed their daughters-in-law. Many of these women are convicted and serving life long sentences for murder. So it is not as simple a men v/s women problem as it sounds.


-Mumbai cha Bhau
Damanjit Kaur
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Joined: Oct 18, 2004
Posts: 346
Hello Arjun

I am sorry for having initiated a toffee-coffee war in the very beginning of this thread.

However I couldn't found the answers to your questions, I mean what questions to ask? as I don't belong to this stream.

Here is something funny that I found and its not with the intention to convey something against arranged marriages,its just for a laugh.

http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/books/845/aunt.htm
kayal cox
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 19, 2004
Posts: 376
Hi Arjun, in an attempt to pull this thread back to its original intent, here goes:

For you to determine what kind of questions you want to ask a girl, you should first know what kind of person you are. Everybody has certain things that they feel strongly about, and certain things that they can compromise on.

When I was first introduced to my husband, I had made a list of things that I was particular about. Like common language, food, his idea of how much freedom his wife can have, no-smoking, taking care of my parents etc. And there were things that I was sure we would come to a compromise like: social drinking, where he wanted to settle down, interest in arts/travel, kids etc.

So we spent the first few mails/chats getting these things out in the open. And then, these discussions led to more friendly and open communications.

But we had all this, because I insisted that I needed some time to talk to him before the engagement/marrige. And so my parents only considered those alliances, where the groom's parents understood and agreed to my requirement.

So, it all comes down to you. If you want to choose the kind of partner you would have, then you have to be strong about telling your parents, that you absolutely will not agree to say yes to a girl after a 30-40 minute conversation. If you don't, then none of it really matters.. does it?

Arjun: deciding the life partner in 45-90 minutes is little difficult.But reality is you have to or you can go for love marriage which are also now common.


Well, not really.. There are varying degrees between love marriage, and arranged marriage. What I had was more like an "Arranged love marriage". And you can decide what would best suit you.
Bhau Mhatre
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 11, 2003
Posts: 199
Arjun Shastry: So what are the questions that should be asked?

Why don't you ask her some of the questions you do in the "programming diversion" forum? May be you can judge her from the way she approaches the problem It's a high risk suggestion though. She might get scared and run away thinking you are a nerd or a geek. On the up side, she might get impressed and you'll have your day.

Another suggestion- Tell her a few jokes of varying intelligence- from siliest/stupidest to highly intelligent, rating 0 to 10 (rating is yours of course). Then depending on her smile, grin, or laughter for each joke, you'll probably get the idea of compatibility (sense of humor, general knowlwdge, ..). Hope that helps
Varun Khanna
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Joined: May 30, 2002
Posts: 1400
Originally posted by Bhau Mhatre:
Arjun Shastry: So what are the questions that should be asked?

Another suggestion- .. of compatibility (sense of humor, general knowlwdge, ..). Hope that helps


Or better show her MD forums. If she later comes back on her own, she is of ur type

else execute(girlSearchResult(s).next())
[ February 16, 2005: Message edited by: K Varun ]

- Varun
Pradeep bhatt
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8904

Originally posted by K Varun:


Or better show her MD forums. If she later comes back on her own, she is of ur type

else execute(girlSearchResult(s).next())

[ February 16, 2005: Message edited by: K Varun ]


So finally some posts from Varun. Varun, dont be quite here.
Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
Originally posted by Manish Hatwalne:
.
It's going to be a bit of rough generalization, and I do not intend to hurt anyone with this - I think south India is a bit more rigid/orthodox as far as customs go. Some part of north India and MP have very MCP society. I think metros and west India, Calcuta are more open/liberal. This is just generalization, and I know that there would be exceptions here.

The reasoning lies in history.Majority of social/political movements started from Western India,especially Maharashtra.Some of them include,education to women(D.K.Karve/G.G.Agarkar),family planning movement Raghunath Karve(D.K.Karve's son) who recieved nothing but brickbats and stones at that time, Rights to Backward classes by B.R.Ambedkar.East India especially Bengal was 'flexible' enough to understand these movements.
R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by kayal cox:
Well, not really.. There are varying degrees between love marriage, and arranged marriage. What I had was more like an "Arranged love marriage". And you can decide what would best suit you.


I think these days trend is what you have gone through[at least in urban areas] and termed as "Arranged Love Marriage" by partners

I think mindset of choosing partner, behind all these intraction plays major part to convert arrange marriage to arranged-love marriage.

Just out of curiosity, how many other men you interacted/interviewed from the point of getting married before finding you husband.

In my case its just one... and in our words it would be arranged-cum[in Hindi]-love-more marriage
Manish Hatwalne
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Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Posts: 2578

Originally posted by Arjun Shastry:

The reasoning lies in history.Majority of social/political movements started from Western India,especially Maharashtra.Some of them include,education to women(D.K.Karve/G.G.Agarkar),family planning movement Raghunath Karve(D.K.Karve's son) who recieved nothing but brickbats and stones at that time, Rights to Backward classes by B.R.Ambedkar.East India especially Bengal was 'flexible' enough to understand these movements.


I agree! That is one reason people still feel safe sending their daugters to Maharashtra for education. I didn't realize why bihari girls (Mostly from Jamshedpur, part of Bihar then)) were so worried in earlier days to move around alone at night. afterwards they discovered that Pune is as safe as it gets and when I went to Bihar in vacation, I realized why the place I am staying in is heaven/haven!

Bengal also has been quite liberal and progresive due Rabindrnath Tagore, and all that literaly movement. Shantiniketan education is still ahead of its time, Only Tottochan & Tomai school (Japan) seems to touch that level of maturity in kids' education.

- Manish
Manish Hatwalne
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Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Posts: 2578

Originally posted by Bhau Mhatre:
K Maya: ...
Manish Hatwalne: Why wait for change of heart of these "greedy, dowry seeking, insesitive" Indian men?

Hey people, since when did dowry turn into a men v/s women thing? In almost all dowry related crimes you will find that the victim's mother-in-law was the main culprit. Tihar Jail in Delhi (one of the most famous jails in the country) has a separate "mother-in-law" wing for women who have harassed and even killed their daughters-in-law. Many of these women are convicted and serving life long sentences for murder. So it is not as simple a men v/s women problem as it sounds.


I agree, I rephase what I said -

Why wait for change of heart of these "greedy, dowry seeking, insesitive" Indian groom's family?

But what I am trying to say is stil valid - One should have enough "courage of conviction" to change the things that he/she dislikes/disapproves, at least whatever is in one's control.

- Manish
Manish Hatwalne
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Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Posts: 2578

Originally posted by R K Singh:
In my case its just one... and in our words it would be arranged-cum[in Hindi]-love-more marriage


Very interesting!
Ravish, Mind sharing your story???

- Manish
Dave Lenton
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Joined: Jan 20, 2005
Posts: 1241
Originally posted by Sonny Gill:
Also, there is a difference in expectations when comparing an arranged marriage vs. love marriage.

Probabely, in an arranged marriage, the most important thing you are looking for in your spouse is that she be a good parent for your kids, get along well with your family, and be a suitable companion in your personal and social life. Whereas, in case of a love marriage, the expectations could be a totally different kind.

As someone said, arranged marriages are successful, because you start from 0, and so can only go up , where as in a love marriage, there is as much chance of the (existing) love withering away as of its growing.


Could this not work both ways? You start on 0, but if, as time goes by, you realise that you dislike your partner then that score could become negative.

Perhaps one of the problems with arranged marriages is not so much the arrangement itself, but the social and family pressure not to divorce and try again if it doesn't work out. This pressure also (and sadly IMHO) exists in many cultures that have love marriages.
Dave Lenton
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Joined: Jan 20, 2005
Posts: 1241
Originally posted by Tina Desai:

Thanks for the in-depth reply, this kind of thread really does help with understanding different cultures.... I shall try to reply to some of it....


For us, marriage IS a bond between two families. It has to do something the way we spend our lives ahead. The girl goes to the boy's family after marriage. And they all stay together. For a girl's parents, its like giving the girl to a family. There are all chances that they all stay together for the rest of their lives. We have festivals popping up every now and then, in which we all HAVE to get together. In short, once married, it becomes a matter of two families, we like it or not.

I wonder if this could be the key factor in the lack of understanding between the western and Indian view of marriages. The same word is used, but a different meaning is being expressed.

I can see the positive sides of two families coming closer together - this kind of thing must lead to a closer-knit society, where families support and help each other. There are also some negative points though. It seems to me almost as if the couple getting married become tools used by the families to bring about this closeness. While it may lead to a good thing, is it worth pressuring two people to do something that may not want to do? Hopefully in many cases the couple are happy to comply.

What would be great is a way of combining the best of both worlds - to have a way of allowing families to come close together, but also to allow people to marry for whatever reason they want.

Generally, people marry only once. If someone loses his/her spouse above 45-50 years of age, he/she generally spends the rest of the lives alone.. well in a family with kids and grandkids and all. but not re-marrying or engaging with someone else. May be that's the reason its done so carefully.
Its a once in a lifetime thing. Make a mistake and you will have to live with it.

This is also something with good and bad aspects. The knowledge that a marriage is not a common thing will hopefully lead to some careful deliberation before choosing a spouse. I think most people dislike the idea of Britney Spears style weddings done as a drunken game and then cancelled the next day. On the other hand, pressure against divorce and re-marrying could lead to people living in unhappy situations. While a parent must think of their children above all else, if a person looses a partner and it will not harm their children if they get a new one, well its surely not a bad thing.

But in my own town, I will not be out alone after 8pm. Many Indian women who travel abroad do cummute even late at night. So its not about what a woman thinks but what kind of soceity she has to face in India.

The reason for this protective approach is that God forbid something happens, no one marrys the girl. Atleast, it becomes difficult to marry her off. With the boys and their parents being allergic to such things, its a risk that the girls parents dont dare to take.

This is sad. Hopefully things will improve and safety can become more common. It must be terrible for a person that has had this kind of thing happen to them - to be a victim twice, once by their assailant and once by society.

So it has to do with the kind of lives we live, the kind of soceity we are in.

Absolutely- something true of everyone, but understood by few.
[ February 17, 2005: Message edited by: Dave Lenton ]
Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
So now,
Arranged marriage= hang yourself
love marriage=shoot yourself.
How do you want to die?
Dave Lenton
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Joined: Jan 20, 2005
Posts: 1241
Originally posted by Manish Hatwalne:
It's going to be a bit of rough generalization, and I do not intend to hurt anyone with this - I think south India is a bit more rigid/orthodox as far as customs go. Some part of north India and MP have very MCP society. I think metros and west India, Calcuta are more open/liberal. This is just generalization, and I know that there would be exceptions here.

- Manish


This probably true of a lot of places. In the cities there is a large amount of interaction between different cultures and sub-cultures, leading to a more liberal and changeable outlook on things. In more rural areas, things have remained unchanging for so long that more a conservative outlook is common. Election results in many countries seem to reflect this.

Could this situation in India also be a product of history? During the time when the UK was in charge of India, there must have been a large wish from many Indians to be independent of a dominant foreign culture. Following independence, it could perhaps have been seen as a good thing to concentrate on and emphasise aspects of traditional Indian culture.

Mind you the flaw in this argument is the continuing popularity of cricket (something that has come from English culture) in Commonwealth countries. Maybe they are doing it as a sneaky revenge tactic - getting their own back by regularly thrashing the English cricket team
Damanjit Kaur
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Joined: Oct 18, 2004
Posts: 346
Arjun Shastry

So now,
Arranged marriage= hang yourself
love marriage=shoot yourself.
How do you want to die?


Either first hang yourself and then shoot.

or

First shoot yourself and let others hang you.
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8904

Just hang yourself and save the bullet.
 
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subject: Indian arranged marriages
 
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