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Discussion of Naming Policy

Eric Pascarello
author
Rancher

Joined: Nov 08, 2001
Posts: 15376
    
    6
Originally posted by Shivani Chandna:
This site interms of info is one of the best.

But the forum can be improved.I am comparing with Sun's java forums.

First of all the code formatting. Its as good as non existant.(The worse of pains of using this forum)

Another Absurd thing: The javascript pop up that comes for addding bold.Instead atleast the "[b]" should come as "[code]" does.

Even the similies are unnecessarily provided.

Where are the buttons Post a Reply or Search situated - should be next to every message posted ( Oh ok the "" icon stands for reply ). But why not keep icons having text instead? and reposition those top two buttons...


The forum software that we use is limited and older. We have been working on another solution. To find out more on that search the forum.

Originally posted by Shivani Chandna:

I was amazed to see that there are "people" moderating this forum regularly....Sending messages like write "you" instead of "u" or keep a real name .. how many productive hours of such intelligent people are going waste with this strategy


Not everyone speaks English that well that uses this forum. Some people use translation applications to figure out what has been said. The translation program will not convert the message correctly. Plus using shortcuts shows laziness of the person typing the question.

Eric
[ August 07, 2005: Message edited by: Eric Pascarello ]
Bert Bates
author
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 8806
    
    5
Man oh man, late to the party again

It's always seemed to me that the ranch's two rules really work well together. When people use their real names, things just seem to be friendlier all around.


Spot false dilemmas now, ask me how!
(If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much room.)
Ilja Preuss
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
Originally posted by Shivani Chandna:
This site interms of info is one of the best.

[...]

I was amazed to see that there are "people" moderating this forum regularly....Sending messages like write "you" instead of "u" or keep a real name .. how many productive hours of such intelligent people are going waste with this strategy


I really think these two things go together, so I don't think it's wasted.


The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Marilyn de Queiroz
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 22, 2000
Posts: 9044
    
  10
Originally posted by Shivani Chandna:
This site in terms of info is one of the best.

But the forum can be improved.I am comparing with Sun's java forums.

I'm not quite sure what this has to do with the topic of this thread, "Topic: Discussion of Naming Policy"


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"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, and today is a gift; that's why they call it the present." Eleanor Roosevelt
Ginu Jacob
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 19, 2005
Posts: 16
It wud be better if the naming policy is enforced at the time of registration rather than informing the people of it once they have registered..

just a suggestion..

regards,
ginu
Ben Souther
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 11, 2004
Posts: 13410

That would require that either the ranch have moderators online 24 hours a day to review and accept or reject the requested names OR that new users wait for a period of time before they could post.

To make matters more difficult, we have users from all over the world. I wouldn't recognize the name of an Indian movie star so would probably accept it until someone else pointed out that it was obviously fictitious. Then what?


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Patrick van Zandbeek
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 17, 2005
Posts: 37
Originally posted by Ben Souther:
That would require that either the ranch have moderators online 24 hours a day to review and accept or reject the requested names OR that new users wait for a period of time before they could post.

To make matters more difficult, we have users from all over the world. I wouldn't recognize the name of an Indian movie star so would probably accept it until someone else pointed out that it was obviously fictitious. Then what?


Not a problem I'd say. Waiting a bit to have your account verified is an accepted practice among many websites.

As for the not recognizing indian movie star names, that's no problem either, who's to say the person doesn't have the same name to begin with. I just saw a post by "Brandon Lee" after all. "The Crow" anyone?


u is a letter, not a word.
Ben Souther
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 11, 2004
Posts: 13410

Originally posted by Patrick van Zandbeek:
Not a problem I'd say. Waiting a bit to have your account verified is an accepted practice among many websites.

I think such a practice would cut down on the number of participants.
If I had to sign up and wait for a response before posting, I may have never come back. I think most people sign up (initially anyway) becuase they have something specific they want to ask or add. A day or two later may be too late for the thread in question.

Originally posted by Patrick van Zandbeek:

As for the not recognizing indian movie star names, that's no problem either, who's to say the person doesn't have the same name to begin with. I just saw a post by "Brandon Lee" after all. "The Crow" anyone?

Any time I've seen someone with a celebrity's name show up in the forums, they've been called on it by a moderator.
Vijay Dogra
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 16, 2004
Posts: 22
Hello All,
I would like to know what if the name is "Vijay Dogra" and I have kept the name as "Vijay"? I am sorry if this question is real simple and posted in wrong place.
Ernest Friedman-Hill
author and iconoclast
Marshal

Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: 24183
    
  34

Originally posted by Vijay:
Hello All,
I would like to know what if the name is "Vijay Dogra" and I have kept the name as "Vijay"? I am sorry if this question is real simple and posted in wrong place.


We require two names, a first and last name. Please change your display name to "Vijay Dogra" (or, if you don't want to do that, to some other real-sounding first and last name.) Thanks.


[Jess in Action][AskingGoodQuestions]
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Labeling the required use on one's real name as being a move towards professionalism is simply absurd. Some very professional people are funny, light-hearted, enjoy nicknames and other such stuff.

If the "real name" requirement is to simply fir with the "corporate crowd", I think you have completely missed the mark. Even the "Head First Java" book flies in the face of "standard" corporate appearance. Frankly, I get more work done, and more knowledge from working in a less corporate company.

Let's face it, coporate culture is really ruining alot of people!

A Professional Unprofessional
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

Originally posted by <Unprofessional>:
Labeling the required use on one's real name as being a move towards professionalism is simply absurd. Some very professional people are funny, light-hearted, enjoy nicknames and other such stuff.

If the "real name" requirement is to simply fir with the "corporate crowd", I think you have completely missed the mark. Even the "Head First Java" book flies in the face of "standard" corporate appearance. Frankly, I get more work done, and more knowledge from working in a less corporate company.

Let's face it, coporate culture is really ruining alot of people!

A Professional Unprofessional


And we take suggestions from anonymous posters very seriously. :roll:


GenRocket - Experts at Building Test Data
Jesus Angeles
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 26, 2005
Posts: 2049
I like the rule for real names. It makes this sites more meaningful.

I rather about computers to someone with a name that sounds real, than to someone named 2hot4u, or cOolgUy....
David Ulicny
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 04, 2004
Posts: 724
I don't want to hurt you, but Jesus Angeles is your real name?


SCJP<br />SCWCD <br />ICSD(286)<br />MCP 70-216
Jesus Angeles
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 26, 2005
Posts: 2049
yes, im a jr. my father was jesus sr. and he was named such as he was born dec 25.
paul wheaton
Trailboss

Joined: Dec 14, 1998
Posts: 20498
    ∞

It does seem that some corporate cultures take the fun out of everything.

Some don't.

The idea behind the naming policy is a healthier community. Granted, whether this really works or not is debatable. But many of us think it works and so far I think our community is pretty healthy.

This thread is to provide folks an opportunity to persuade me to try something else. So far "simply absurd" and "you have completely missed the mark" hasn't convinced me to make any policy changes.


permaculture Wood Burning Stoves 2.0 - 4-DVD set
Kristin Stromberg
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 17, 2005
Posts: 91
I don't think the naming policy should be changed. It's nice to see people's real names and I definitely think it makes people think twice before posting something they might not want attributed to them later.

But.... perhaps we could add some data validation and/or make the naming policy more "in your face" for new registrants so that they have to enter two names, both with more than a single character? I see tons of new users who use only a single name or their initials who have no idea they've violated the naming policy until a moderator points it out to them. Seems like a lot of these invalid names could easily be prevented if we don't allow them to register with these names to begin with.
Ilja Preuss
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
Originally posted by Kristin Stromberg:

But.... perhaps we could add some data validation and/or make the naming policy more "in your face" for new registrants so that they have to enter two names, both with more than a single character? I see tons of new users who use only a single name or their initials who have no idea they've violated the naming policy until a moderator points it out to them. Seems like a lot of these invalid names could easily be prevented if we don't allow them to register with these names to begin with.


True. As far as I know, patching our forum software isn't exactly trivial, unfortunately. (And please don't let's start another "let's switch the forum software" thread...)

On the other hand, it gives us an opportunity to recognize and welcome newcomers...
Jeff Albertson
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 16, 2005
Posts: 1780
I can't seem to find the promised "moose" thread, so I'm posting here.
I love The Moose -- perhaps because I'm Canadian . Far from feeling
the need to scroll past it, I've pulled in coworkers who were innocently
walking by my cubbyhole to show them The Moose, and especially how the fly
goes in one moostril and out t'other. I've even thought a stuffed moose head
might brighten up my office, but I don't want to antagonize the vegetarians...

As for the naming policy, while it grates on my anarcho tendencies,
I have to admit that whatever you're doing here is working. After over
5,000 posts, I've fled Sun's forum.java.sun.com forums because (1) their
forum software sucks and most of the changes they make only make it worse,
(2) their forum staff are arrogant, and worst of all (3) the forums are
flooded with flame wars, do-my-homework posts and a handful of demented
members who seem dedicated to poisoning what's left of the atmosphere
there.

Summary: javaranch is great


There is no emoticon for what I am feeling!
Stuart Ash
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 07, 2005
Posts: 637
It's a funny world, this whole discussion about real names and definitions of what is real or at least real-sounding.

I have one contention here however. I think the rule of using only non-initials for last names must be relaxed. It can found in some cultures, and it's an especially common practice in India, that people use patronymic initials for along with the single given name. Now, that's the normal, standard and officially accepted form. Mandating expanding the initials leads to some discomfort and is not in tune with general practice. While a first-name+last-name principle is a good thing, I think expecting this in everyone is a little coercive.

Will be good to see some adaptability in the rule formation.

for cultural diversity.


ASCII silly question, Get a silly ANSI.
D Kumar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 10, 2003
Posts: 93
Originally posted by Jesus Angeles:
yes, im a jr. my father was jesus sr. and he was named such as he was born dec 25.


Jeff Albertson
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 16, 2005
Posts: 1780
Originally posted by Jesus Angeles:
Yes, I'm a Jr. My father was Jesus Sr. and he was named such as he was born on Dec 25.

I understand that tradition goes way back
David Dong
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 15, 2004
Posts: 58
I still don't get it.

What does Jay Walker mean?
Ernest Friedman-Hill
author and iconoclast
Marshal

Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: 24183
    
  34

Originally posted by David Dong:
I still don't get it.

What does Jay Walker mean?


"jaywalking" means (in the U.S., anyway) crossing a street in the middle of a block and/or ignoring traffic signals while walking, rather than crossing at the corner and obeying the signals. A "jaywalker" is someone who does this.
lubna kausar
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 06, 2006
Posts: 51
hi there i wanted to tell u people that my real name is lubna...
and thats a REALLY REAL name u can search on this name on net also n m continuously given warning of naming convensions...
wats the problem...
i just want to say please please please consider my name to b a real name or u suggest me wat to write as my display name???
Ernest Friedman-Hill
author and iconoclast
Marshal

Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: 24183
    
  34

Originally posted by lubna:
my real name is lubna...
and thats a REALLY REAL name u can search on this name on net also n m continuously given warning of naming convensions...
wats the problem...


The problem is that your JavaRanch display name must consist of a first name, a space, and a last name. "lubna" is a perfectly fine name, as far as I'm concerned, but it's only one name, not two. Please provide the other name, first or last, whichever is missing. Thanks.
Chris Ball
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 08, 2006
Posts: 10
I hope this name don't look fictitious enough.


Java Beginner<br />Blender 3D user
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 60822
    
  65

Originally posted by Chris Ball:
I hope this name don't look fictitious enough.


What's your point?


[Asking smart questions] [Bear's FrontMan] [About Bear] [Books by Bear]
Jeroen T Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 1847
Sounds like he made up a fake name and wants to see if he can get away with it.


42
fred rosenberger
lowercase baba
Bartender

Joined: Oct 02, 2003
Posts: 11175
    
  16

is it a play on the phrase "crystal ball"?


There are only two hard things in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors
Steve L. Williams
Greenhorn

Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 13
Wow, never seen a thread last so long.

Anyway, here is my 2 cents

The naming policy is illogical and actually contributes to an unfriendly atmosphere. Let me explain.


Only real sounding names are required. Not real names. Therefore, there are many people not posting with their real names, yet the forum is generally very pleasant. Other forums don't have an anal-retentive naming policy, yet are just as friendly and helpful, if not more so. Programmers Heaven is a great example of that. They don't have a naming policy to speak of, and no moderators either. In my 2 years or so on their java and c/c++ boards, I haven't seen much in the way of bad behavior.

Since the stated purpose of the naming policy is to keep a nice forum nice, but yet has nothing to do with it, it is illogical. The regulars are nice, and that promotes niceness. Not some silly naming policy. The reason suns forums can be very unfriendly is that it isn't moderated very well and is heavily populated by regulars who are, um, not nice.

The reason it is ironically unfriendly is simple. Someone is in dire need of help, they find the ranch, quickly register, post their question. Next thing they know they are getting told to change their name, sometimes by wanna-be moderators, without getting an answer to their dilemma. This help makes JavaRanch more unfriendly.

It seems that the only logical reason for this policy is to give moderators something to do other then move the occasional post to a more proper(and sometimes less populated) board.
[ August 21, 2006: Message edited by: Steve L. Williams ]
Jeroen T Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 1847
Most people in fact will use their real names, and those that don't wanr to complain loudly enough that it's quite obvious they're using a fake name

Of course there's no way to actually enforce it rigorously, as that would require people to mail proof of identity (and how would you verify that they'd sent proof of their own identity without sending someone over to check in person, hardly practical for a global community?) by snailmail, say a copy of their passports.

The policy as it stands at least deters the worst troublemakers and makes others a bit easier to recognise.
Ilja Preuss
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
Originally posted by Steve L. Williams:
Only real sounding names are required. Not real names. Therefore, there are many people not posting with their real names, yet the forum is generally very pleasant.


Yes. I think it's the *perception* of real names that contributes to the atmosphere.


Other forums don't have an anal-retentive naming policy, yet are just as friendly and helpful, if not more so. Programmers Heaven is a great example of that. They don't have a naming policy to speak of, and no moderators either. In my 2 years or so on their java and c/c++ boards, I haven't seen much in the way of bad behavior.


That's great!

Since the stated purpose of the naming policy is to keep a nice forum nice, but yet has nothing to do with it, it is illogical.


Well, just because other forums that don't have such a policy are nice, it doesn't logically follow that the naming policy doesn't contribute to the nice atmosphere of JavaRanch, I'd think.


The regulars are nice, and that promotes niceness.


Certainly! No doubt about it.

Not some silly naming policy.


I wonder why you are so upset about that policy. And I'd think that calling something "silly" that others obviously care a little bit about isn't exactly the nicest behavhiour possible...

The reason suns forums can be very unfriendly is that it isn't moderated very well and is heavily populated by regulars who are, um, not nice.


Well yes. That doesn't exactly explain why the sun forums have unfriendly regulars. I think it would be kind of hard to find a single root cause.

The reason it is ironically unfriendly is simple. Someone is in dire need of help, they find the ranch, quickly register, post their question. Next thing they know they are getting told to change their name, sometimes by wanna-be moderators, without getting an answer to their dilemma. This help makes JavaRanch more unfriendly.


I don't see exactly what is unfriendly about it. As far as I can tell, most name change requests are rather nice - and to the extent they aren't, we should probably work on that.

I also don't see that such questions typically don't get answered.

But perhaps the intention simply is different here. I don't think that JavaRanch is about giving someone fast answers. It's about building a *community* where problems can be discussed in a friendly atmosphere.

It seems that the only logical reason for this policy is to give moderators something to do other then move the occasional post to a more proper(and sometimes less populated) board.


It might seem that way to you, but I can assure you that it isn't my reason. In fact only a small percentage of my posts are of that type - I prefer to discuss design problems, Agile software development approaches etc.

Still, the naming policy is important enough to me that I invest the time to post the occasional note, though.
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

The main reason I like the Naming Policy is that I would much rather have a conversation with Steve L. Williams than Bobafett223 or JavaLuvr. Also, what I've tried to do most recently, taking a queue from my fellow ranchers, is not only point out the name violation but to go ahead and try and help the poster with their problem.

To me that promotes all sorts of niceness. Of course, I am a Sheriff, so you'll take my comments for what their worth. But I think most non-staff would agree with me as well.
paul wheaton
Trailboss

Joined: Dec 14, 1998
Posts: 20498
    ∞

I can't remember what the earliest reasons were for the naming policy. I do seem to remember something about "a recipe" for community. The naming policy is part of that recipe.

For now, I really like the naming policy.

It is true that there is some hassle about folks that choose to not comply. Damn.
Tim LeMaster
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 226
I decided to read this thread because I always felt the "real" name rule was pretty silly. I used my actual real name because I find no offense in it, but I don't agree with the reason. However I'm a strong believer in individuals rights, so you created this community you create the rules, that I agree with very strongly.

However I do have a concern about this rule. I have two friends there names are really Michael Jordan and Michael Jackson. I would have to assume if they registered here they would have to use something else. So because there happens to be someone famous in the realm of basketball and singing with these names they are off limits here.

It would be a shame if someone who had published a Java book, contributed to open source projects, or are otherwise somewhat known in the programming world could not use their real name because it happens to be known in another (more popular) field.
Ben Souther
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 11, 2004
Posts: 13410

We've had cases where a member's name seemed fictitious at first. After being asked to change it, the member demonstrated to someone here that the name was indeed valid and the issue dropped.
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 60822
    
  65

Indeed. As the sheriff who probably has the biggest reputation for shooting first and asking questions later with regards to the naming policy, there have been many occasions where I've challenged a name only to become satisified that it adheres to policy after a little communication with the alleged bandit.

So if Amelia Earhart shows up, she'll probably get challenged, but will have no worries if it's really her. (Though she will have some other explaining to do!)
Marilyn de Queiroz
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 22, 2000
Posts: 9044
    
  10
There is an Amelia Earhart in Denver, she does traffic-copter reports sometimes. In fact, I believe she is related to the famous one. As far as I know, she is not interested in Java at this time, though.
Pauline McNamara
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 19, 2001
Posts: 4012
    
    6
< goofin off >

BB: (Though she will have some other explaining to do!)

MdQ: There is an Amelia Earhart in Denver, she does traffic-copter reports sometimes.


Stuck in traffic all that time?

< /goofin off >
[ September 25, 2006: Message edited by: Pauline McNamara ]
 
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