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[political] Clear me on WMD arithmetics

R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Jason Menard:

How insightful.

Actually I have seen so much insightfulness that I found smiley much more appropriate for conveying thoughts
And its my personal problem that when people start generalizing personal thoughts with nation, I start avoiding them.


"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Daniel Almond:
come on jason, i know you are proud of being in the air force(i am assuming) and it is noble and everything but even you have to admit that it is quite a bit different than the infantry.

Sure it's different than being in the infantry, nobody will argue that. That still doesn't mean that these guys aren't living, showering, and shitting in tents for months at a time and living off of MREs. And how close to the action the maintenance guys have to be, those that don't fly with their aircraft that is, depends on the type of aircraft they work on (A-10 and helicopeter forward operating locations for instance are way too close for my tastes for example). But you are correct, usually it is in most cases not in the country directly under attack. The biggest threat most personnel working at an airbase in a combat zone realistically have had to deal with is SCUDs and terrorism.
but apart from the 3-4%that are pilots or combat controller/pararescue people most are not in the country that the war is going on in. yeah, having a kid in the air force or navy wouldn't be bad because there is almost no risk apart from accidents.

I wish I had known that stat before I found myself, a lowly computer geek, carrying an M-16 and a 9mm on the ground in Bosnia, attached to an army unit. I couldn't tell you the number of times I had an army guy express surprise to see USAF people there as there were no planes anywhere nearby ("yeah, no shit Sherlock"). There are several other jobs apart from just pilots, PJs, and Combat Controllers that often make sure you get the most out of military life, but we don't need to go into them (enlisted aircrew positions, tactical air controllers, intel, comms, security, engineers, weather, air liaison officers, EOD, etc...). As far as there being "almost no risk", I'm sure the families of the guys killed in Khobar Towers might disagree.
Yes, "most" USAF people directly support the flying mission at an airbase somewhere, and "most" Navy people directly support the seagoing mission on a ship somewhere. And you are right that the Army is taking the brunt of it right now from ground fire in Iraq, as I believe there were only two USAF KIA on the ground by hostile fire so far (one was a maintenacnce technician btw, the other a combat controller). But these are the expectations when one joins the infantry. They do their jobs well and I give them all the credit in the world. I'm just trying to clear up some misconceptions you have about some of the other services.
Daniel Almond
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 16, 2003
Posts: 29
ok, so to clarify my question before since i think you took the wrong context. would you be happy to see that your son/self/brother was going to join the infantry and be on the very very front line with the maximum risk of using a wheelchair and colostomy bag for the rest of his life b/c part of his body was blown apart by an RPG b/c some of the iraqis didn't want us there in the first place?
not to mention the risk to iraqi citizens as the infantry who fear for their own lives and can't tell enemy from friend tend to shoot first and ask questions later? its fine they need to do what they have to to survive but many innocents will die but it all could have been avoided. not to mention the fact that not everybody i met the army was a really noble and just person(the guy who raped and murdered the 14 year old girl in Kosovo lived in a barracks right across the parade field from mine) so you have to worry about the iraqis too.
i don't really know what ravish is trying to say? you got any idea jason?
Daniel Almond
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 16, 2003
Posts: 29
and what if all that sacrifice was for nothing b/c america will eventually tire of receiving casualties and paying for the reconstruction and support of the iraqi economy at the expense of socila programs here. i have a feeling all the troops might come home before the job is done. even if bush does get reeelected he will still not have enough time to finish it.
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Daniel Almond:
ok, so to clarify my question before since i think you took the wrong context. would you be happy to see that your son/self/brother was going to join the infantry and be on the very very front line with the maximum risk of using a wheelchair and colostomy bag for the rest of his life b/c part of his body was blown apart by an RPG b/c some of the iraqis didn't want us there in the first place?

Happy? Probably not. Would I respect his decision and be proud that he was willing to put himself on the line and hopefully do some good? Yes.
i don't really know what ravish is trying to say? you got any idea jason?

Very rarely.
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Daniel Almond:
and what if all that sacrifice was for nothing b/c america will eventually tire of receiving casualties and paying for the reconstruction and support of the iraqi economy at the expense of socila programs here. i have a feeling all the troops might come home before the job is done. even if bush does get reeelected he will still not have enough time to finish it.

I hope this is not the case. We've been in Bosnia since 1992 (if memory serves) and Kosovo since 1998. We have remained in Korea since the 50's, and we stayed in Europe since the 40's. History would seem to indicate that we won't leave before we finish the job, but who knows. As far as I know, the plan is to use Iraqi money, such as from the sale of oil, to finance Iraqi reconstruction. Of course the burden of keeping a military force over there still falls on US tax payers, but we've been carrying that burden since 1990.
Daniel Almond
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 16, 2003
Posts: 29
good answer, i would probably do the same for my little brother. i think i have already thoroughly convinced him that being peaceful is the way to go though. seems like the political decision to go to war went along with your views this time, maybe things will go my way the next time around; i'm not fighting but i hope every comes back soon. i just don't like using force to solve problems b/c usually i think it usually causes more and doesn't promote understanding of any issue. we have all been kept in the dark by the government as to what their real motives are and i just don't trust them but it is hard to prove things either way. it would do someting if they could just any large store of weapons that could be used for terrorism or something.
since you don't find the idea of injury to your loved ones a pleasant thought though, you should really consider voting dem in the next election.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Originally posted by Daniel Almond:
since you don't find the idea of injury to your loved ones a pleasant thought though, you should really consider voting dem in the next election.

Wasn't there a dem in office during the Somalia fiasco?


Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Daniel Almond
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 16, 2003
Posts: 29
if i remember right there was, but that mission consisted of getting some food to some starving people and consisited of the deployment of a battalion of rangers and part of the 10th mountain , along with some indian troops to keep the thing multinational. the casualties all came on a raid that went bad because of some bad intelligence. but not i believe, constructed intelligence. the moral is stay home but i really don't think you can compare that deployment to 160,000 troops taking over a country. but, maybe you can, you are after all, canonized.
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Daniel Almond:
along with some indian troops to keep the thing multinational. the casualties all came on a raid that went bad because of some bad intelligence. but not i believe, constructed intelligence.

Actually I believe they were Pakistani. Somalia went bad in large part because the civillian leadership in the states would not listen to the military people in the field. The military put in an urgent request for armor, but the civillian leadership (ie the Clinton administration) refused their request. Clinton further screwed the pooch by withdrawing US forces after we took a small number of casualties, in effect telling every little two-bit despot that all they had to do was bloody our nose a little and the American people would lose the stomach for whatever conflict we were engaged in. This single act of Clinton cowardice has emboldened many a terrorist/dictator and is responsible for a fair number of US casualties.
Daniel Almond
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 16, 2003
Posts: 29
hey, i'm not saying clinton's call on the was perfect, but better getting out than staying there for at least 10 years like wwe will in iraq. 1 question, did you ever work on an armor railhead to unload to load on ship to unload to mount operation? if you did you would know urgent requests for armor in africa take at least 2 months. remember the 4th trying to unload in turkey and then having to sail aounr to kuwait to unload? that took four weeks to get from turkey and that was just to stage in the desert. i think two-bit dictators are still scared of sat photos and cruise missles and no americans are at risk. of course george still hasn't been able to bring in osama or saddam.
Paul McKenna
Ugly Redneck
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 08, 2000
Posts: 1006
Originally posted by Jason Menard:

I wish I had known that stat before I found myself, a lowly computer geek, carrying an M-16 and a 9mm on the ground in Bosnia, attached to an army unit. I couldn't tell you the number of times I had an army guy express surprise to see USAF people there as there were no planes anywhere nearby ("yeah, no shit Sherlock").

Dude.. seriously!! no shit!! You actually walked around with a M-16?? Man, Windows 95 must have gotten to ya!!


Commentary From the Sidelines of history
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Daniel Almond:
but, maybe you can, you are after all, canonized.

R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Jason Menard:

Very rarely.

And when he gets, then he replies like this :roll:
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
How does India manage to creep into just about every single thread in this forum?
[ July 27, 2003: Message edited by: Jason Menard ]


Does ANYONE has any idea what jason is trying to say? Please cleae me
Oh Jason, why not you explain what you have said, you are good in playiing with words ?? [or you were #$&* at that time]

PS: There is nothing wrong if you cant prove what you believe.
Beliefs are not supposed to be proved.
[ August 05, 2003: Message edited by: Ravish Kumar ]
Eleison Zeitgeist
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 17, 2002
Posts: 115
Originally posted by Daniel Almond:
ok ok, you can say that i'm whining if you want but i am just trying to generate concern over the fact that some of mt friends have a chance of dying in the coming months. really the name calling was a little uncalled for. remember that band of brothers is a MOVIE. there is reason that government doesn't let out pictures of american dead and that is because war is a gruesome thing and the people who end up in bits and pieces leave crying family members at home. no one would have the stomach to send their fellow americans to die if they really saw what was happening to them. i know i couldn't make that order. and if that doesn't make a person a team player then i really don't see who would want to play on the team that included people who would send them to die anyway. and come on, no one can serioously say say that someone who invented kevlar or fixed the air conditioners in the base has as much of a stake in what happens in the war as the infantryman on the ground.
as for clinton i really don't remember 160,000 troops being forward deployed to one area while he was in office so i'll stick to my belief that he was a bit more peaceful than the current pres.
everyone has to understand that most people in the army really would rather be at home than be deployed. this fact is hidden by the PR campaign and that soldiers really can't speak out at all.
i am sorry if you took the flag on the car thing personally, wasn't talking to anyone in particular. if you would like to continue to talk please give yourself some cooldown time after watching war MOVIES. however if you really like them my fav is Hamburger Hill....

To be honest, who doesn't know that soldiers (american or otherwise) die in combat??? Who doesn't know that soldiers die sometimes with their brain smashed, legs ripped apart, etc... People know that. People who sign up for the army knows that. Well at least most -- maybe not you... What I don't understand is the following:
How did such a peacenick like you join the army in the first place? Did it just come to your attention recently that soldiers die? Sometimes in the most nasty ways?? Is that why you left? Did you wake up one day with a gun on your shoulder and go: "hey... they gave me this gun...huhm.. Did they expect me to kill someone?? Holy sh*t. It think they did... Hey, if they expect me to kill someone -- that someone might want to kill me too. Holy sh*t, I could die... man, what have I gotten into -- I'm leaving right now...." All joking aside, what did you expect??? Did you expect that you would be guaranteed immunity to death while enlist??? That your parents would never have to grieve for you???
and come on, no one can serioously say say that someone who invented kevlar or fixed the air conditioners in the base has as much of a stake in what happens in the war as the infantryman on the ground."

The preceding statement is blatantly inane. If it is true, I can say the following:
"The Iraq war is only/mostly about the infrantryman on the ground. No one else really has a stake in the war- It doesn't really matter to the US population, nor anyone else. The us government has put the soldiers they only to be killed".. etc.

-Eleison
ps. I've cooled down a bit.. However, not sure why I'm still pickiing on Daniel. Hey Daniel, nothing personal, ok :-) Just don't undestand how you think....
pss. Dude, I've made up my mind, Band of Brothers, is one of the better movies I've seen this year. Actually, I've started reading the book that the movie was based on. Man, all the characters looked like their real life counterparts!!! ALso, most people I've talked to said that the movie was very accurate - uniforms and all... Still impressed...
Hamburger Hill - Thought it was ok. It felt too biased though. It seem to be in the same vain as most war movies that came after the vietnam war -- anti-war, and (too a certain extent) anti-us; not objective @ all....
[ August 05, 2003: Message edited by: Eleison Zeitgeist ]
Daniel Almond
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 16, 2003
Posts: 29
what can i say about joining me joining the army except that i didn't really have anything else to do(no money for school) and people mature a lot from 17-25 and what seems like a good idea at 17 can be totally different thing at 25. especially when you have had REAL experience in combat arms. not MOVIES, REAL. here that, not MOVIES, but actual REAL experience. most people i have seen who have been in a war like that can't even talk about it or break down crying when they do. you don't care about that stuff when you are 17 but i think i understand it more now. that is WWII, korea,vietnam, somalia. when i first got in i had a boss who would talk much smack about the first gulf war and show pictures all the time of dead bodies they passed in the desert. they don't look like they do in the MOVIES. that is why the goverment doesn't show any real pictures of casualties at home b/c no one would want to fight after that.
as for stake in the war, it isn't about the infantry on the ground its about politics but the the soldiers are the only ones who are going to die.
still, if you like war that much the recruiter's office is open with no wait...
since nobody has done that yet i think it is safe to assume that there isn't any real support for the war at all, just a bunch of people with opinions who let others do their fighting for them...
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Daniel Almond:
still, if you like war that much the recruiter's office is open with no wait...
since nobody has done that yet i think it is safe to assume that there isn't any real support for the war at all, just a bunch of people with opinions who let others do their fighting for them...

This is what is commonly known as a logical fallacy. "Since you haven't signed up for the military, therefore you don't really support the war." I don't think so.
Daniel Almond
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 16, 2003
Posts: 29
no logic flaw, only a true or false statement:
you are either helping fight, or sending others to do your dirty work for you. i wouldn't send people to do something i wouldn't do myself, so i don't support this war. some people's character will allow them to do that because they don't mind sending other people to die in place of them and that is how they are. i can't change that but i wish i could....
Daniel Almond
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 16, 2003
Posts: 29
if you sign up i will watch over the meaningless drivel post for you
Paul McKenna
Ugly Redneck
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 08, 2000
Posts: 1006
Originally posted by Ravish Kumar:
Does ANYONE has any idea what jason is trying to say? Please cleae me

First of all, I am not trying to speak for Jason, but since you asked "anyone", let me be that one!
1. Stop abusing the emoticons / smileys on your post. Your ratio of content to emoticons is dismally lopsided (towards the emoticons). Also, use the appropriate emoticon for the context. This means do not use a smiley or winkey when an offensive is directed. Nothing wrong in being offensive on a post just dont try to mask it.
2. You try to post everything with an "Indian" perspective. Well, sad but true, the Indian perspective is not required sometimes. Sometimes a discussion is between americans and europeans or americans and americans and our perspective does not fit in that thread. This doesnt mean that an Indian cant post in a American / American debate it means that if you want to write about something then try to see things from the other side and post as appropriate.
3. I have noticed that you often debate the english rather than the meaning of the post. Not everyone is an Oxford graduate here so our written posts sometimes convey one meaning literally and another contextually. Read between the lines.
Hope this clears things up for you.
[ August 05, 2003: Message edited by: Sriraj Rajaram ]
Axel Janssen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 08, 2001
Posts: 2164
Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:

Remarque's "Three Comrades" is my mother's favorite book!

what those russians all read in winter
I don't know this "Three Comrades"-book. I've read 2 times "All quiet on the western front" and the follower "The way back" (title is my translation, book might have other title).
I think Remarque would be forgotten author in Germany without "All quiet on the western front" which is sort of national testimonial of WWI-generation.
I've read both books as kid first and then re-read it 2 years ago, first page to last page. Remarque is excelent narrator.
Axel Janssen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 08, 2001
Posts: 2164
[side_info_about_france]
Today I had meeting very close to french border.
After the meeting I crossed the border and went to Strassbourg. Never been there. Nice city btw. Great cathedral. Somebody should clean some of the coloured windows, which looked a little bit dirty.
You know what? They sell american flags in front of cathedral of Strassbourg, which is very most centre de ville of that city.
They also sold french and german flags, but american flag was most visible.
I was thinking about to ask if he had white flag, but decided that this would be inappropriate behaviour of a german in France.
Imagine someone selling french flags in front of Mount Rushmore.
[/side_info_about_france]
[ August 05, 2003: Message edited by: Axel Janssen ]
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Originally posted by Daniel Almond:
you are either helping fight, or sending others to do your dirty work for you. i wouldn't send people to do something i wouldn't do myself, so i don't support this war.
Not everyone helps to fight by actually being in the military. But the premise is screwed up in the first place. Your premise seems to be that only those in the front lines can determine whether we should fight or not. But that isn't the way things work or should work. The military is controlled by the civilian authority. That is why we are a democracy and not a military dictatorship.
Daniel Almond
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 16, 2003
Posts: 29
aren't there any other people on this website who like peace? maybe not....
thats ok, sometimes all it takes is army of one... going against the grain makes me feel as if someone wrote a book about my life, someone else would want to read it. if not, well, i'll try to get more posts in before 9am than most people do all day. i just have to keep my aims high and be all i can be and maybe, just maybe someone will come to my aid. then together we'd be the few and the proud and if only we were strong enough, we could.
thought that would motivate everyone for less talk and more action....
or at least for some republicans to accelerate their lives to support their chatter.

you don't have to argue with me anymore, you just have to look deep inside yourselves and see what you find. again, if people are ok with sending other people to die in their place then i can't change that.
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
It's not a question of "sending other people to do the fighting". As Thomas pointed out, the fact that the military is under civilian control is one of the hallmark concepts of our nation. Secondly, it's a question of whether or not one is able to recognize that something needs to be done, whether or not they are in a position to personally do it themselves.
I recognize that crime is a bad thing. Just because I'm not rushing down to join the police force doesn't mean I don't have a stake in pushing for crime to be reduced. On the other hand I'm not stupid enough to just decide on my own to go out and see if I can bring down some drug dealers or wanted felons by myself, vigilante style. No, i recognize that there are people who have accepted that job and it is in everyon'e best interest to let them do that job, although they have my full support. I also realize that our government is responsible for protecting its citizens and keeping them safe. This is a benefit I have of being a citizen. That means it is the governments responsibility to do their best to fight crime. This doesn't mean that I'm not doing my own part when and where I can to help out the police, but I will leave it to the government and the people who have volunteered for this task to do their job.
Am I willing to let the police fight crime for me while I sit home in the safety of my own home? Absolutely. I recognize that this is a job they have willingly taken on with full acknowledgement of the potential risks. I also recognize that they don't expect others to go do the job for them. I will still expect my government and the police to tackle crime, despite my unwillinglness to abandon my role in society and take on the job of a police officer myself.
That was an analogy there btw.
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Daniel Almond:
aren't there any other people on this website who like peace?

I'm sure plenty of people want peace, but not at any price. Continued appeasement of one of the most murderous dictators of the 20th/21st century and of those who would traffic in international terror is too high a price to pay.
Nobody who has seen what this regime was capable of would have given a second thought about removing it. What I find even more hard to understand is that after all of the mass graves have been uncovered, after all the unimaginable horror of that regime that we are discovering everyday, how anybody can rationally think that the best option was to have left him alone. Yeah, containment was working. Tell that to the countless victims of that regime. Sometimes the humane option is war.
Daniel Almond
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 16, 2003
Posts: 29
so why did colin powell wan to wait things out? as secretary of state he must have been privy to even more info than bartenders on javaranch. oh yeah, he was also the only one in leadership with any significant military experience. i really don't recall anyone shooting rpg's and suicide bombing police officers who were sent to a foreign country, but however you justify your own actions is cool with me brother.
Paul McKenna
Ugly Redneck
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 08, 2000
Posts: 1006
Originally posted by Daniel Almond:
cool with me brother.

Do we have the first American of African descent amongst our ranks??
Jim Yingst
Wanderer
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 30, 2000
Posts: 18671
Unlikely. That is, I have no idea if Daniel is African-American or not, but if he is, I doubt very much he's the first to post here. Not that we'd know for sure either way - we have no real info about most of our posters after all. But it seems a bit silly to suppose that no African-Americans have posted here previously...


"I'm not back." - Bill Harding, Twister
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Sriraj Rajaram:

Thanks for your valuable input.

First of all, I am not trying to speak for Jason, but since you asked "anyone", let me be that one!

You are right and again thanks for being that one.
1. Stop abusing the emoticons / smileys on your post. Your ratio of content to emoticons is dismally lopsided (towards the emoticons).
Yes, it was over used to annoy and it did its job well.
Also, use the appropriate emoticon for the context. This means do not use a smiley or winkey when an offensive is directed.
Why ?? Cant I laugh while being offensive?
I think by doing so I am becoming more offensive. :-|
Nothing wrong in being offensive on a post just dont try to mask it.

No, I dont mask anything.
I say what I have to say, even I simply return what I get. [problem comes when people cant take what they give.]
2. You try to post everything with an "Indian" perspective. Well, sad but true, the Indian perspective is not required sometimes. Sometimes a discussion is between americans and europeans or americans and americans and our perspective does not fit in that thread. This doesnt mean that an Indian cant post in a American / American debate it means that if you want to write about something then try to see things from the other side and post as appropriate.
hmm... OK for your sake, I agree that "EVERYTHING" I post is with Indian perspective.
Can I apply this analogy on Map[Russia], Axel[Germany], Jason[US], etc.. ??
If I apply then, should I stop taking their names and start calling them by their country name ?? [can I use this smiley ]
3. I have noticed that you often debate the english rather than the meaning of the post. Not everyone is an Oxford graduate here so our written posts sometimes convey one meaning literally and another contextually. Read between the lines.
Can YOU elaborate more ??
Hope this clears things up for you.
I wish it could.
You talked all the things of this universe but did not tell why a country name should be used there[in the quote I have given].
If you/anyone know then well n good, please explain.
Repeating my question.
If I apply same analogy then, should I stop taking their names and start calling them by their country name ??
And if I apply this analogy, I dont know what name you will get.
Paul McKenna
Ugly Redneck
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 08, 2000
Posts: 1006
Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
...

Well fair enough Jim, but I also observed that in the 3+ years I have spent coding in Java, I have not come across a single African American Java programmer. So I guess I assumed that we possibly dont have a Afro-Ameri Javarancher. Daniel also happens to be a name that is quite popular in the Afro-Ameri community, coupled with the fact that he seems to be a pro-democrat, peacenik etc.. it just made me wonder!
Daniel Almond
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 16, 2003
Posts: 29
sorry to disappoint, but i am white. i am sure there must have been an afican-american posting somewhere though. i am liberal and don't get pushed around by conservatives. got really tired of people in my school classes shouting my ideas down as traitorous and unpatriotic just because peace wasn't too popular around march. and this at the time when i am going to school on the GI bill and they are blowing mommy and daddy's money. but you know they have those flag stickers on their SUV's so they must know more than i. its ok, i bet george washington was called unpatriotic too when he questioned the government in power.
i am having a good day though as the gay bishop has been approved. its a real victory for progressively thinking people everywhere.
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Daniel Almond:
i really don't recall anyone shooting rpg's and suicide bombing police officers who were sent to a foreign country

I guess you aren't familiar with the UN International Police Task Force (IPTF) in the Balkans. They are made up of police officers from all over the world, and many of them have been killed or injured over there.
But aside from that, the police in this country are subject to violence. An average of 163 have been killed in the line of duty every year over the past decade, with 230 killed in 2001. I've got a friend going through the police academy. Maybe I should do everything I can to convince people that we should stop fighting crime. It's the peaceful thing to do anyway. I would hate to seem him get killed in the line of duty. I mean it's really dangerous making a traffic stop, or rolling up on a domestic disturbance, and the police officers could get hurt.
Daniel Almond
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 16, 2003
Posts: 29
you're right. police officers often have to deal with violent criminals. however, they are doing so on US soil and taking care of US problems. their enemies are well-defined by the laws that are in place when they sign up and they can quit their job anytime they don't feel like enforcing the law anymore if new ones are enacted that they don't agree with. of course this is not the case with soldiers as their lives can be ruined without a good DD214. i don't think anyone signed up for the army expecting that a policy of preemptive regime change would come into place to enforce UN resolutions. a better place for the troops i think would be at home where the threat of them being deployed against people who have actually threatened the US, like north korea, would see that they weren't going to be busy doing something else for the next 10 years which gives them plenty of bargaining power.
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Daniel Almond:
taking care of US problems.

And some of them are overseas in places like Mexico and Columbia taking care of US problems. Who is it exactly that defines what constitutes a US 'problem'?
their enemies are well-defined by the laws that are in place when they sign up and they can quit their job anytime they don't feel like enforcing the law anymore if new ones are enacted that they don't agree with.

And every military person with half a clue is well aware when they sign up that they can be sent anywhere at any time to enforce US policy.
people who have actually threatened the US, like north korea, would see that they weren't going to be busy doing something else for the next 10 years which gives them plenty of bargaining power.

So can I take this to mean that you would be willing to support a war against the DPRK if that's what it came to? In any event, our force structure is designed to fight multiple wars on multiple fronts if need be. Korea won't be a problem.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Originally posted by Daniel Almond:
i am having a good day though as the gay bishop has been approved. its a real victory for progressively thinking people everywhere.

Defintion of progressive thinking - dumping your wife and children to go have sex with someone else. No wonder they made him a bishop.
Daniel Almond
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 16, 2003
Posts: 29
ok, i would like to define a US problem as one that affects people in the US, drugs(hence the police in mexico and cuba), crummy economy, no healthcare, no money for universities.
your next comment just reenforces the fact that you are ok with having others die in a war you support with no risk to your own person. just because they signed up to isn't a good enough reason for them to have to go. it would be better if they were rewarded just for signing up by getting to stay home while members of congress and other war "supporters" were deployed in their place. you can bet there wouldn't be any wars then. i guess i just care more about the soldiers than you do.
i too have heard the multiple fronts thing. maybe the US could pull it off but it sure makes things a lot harder.
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Daniel Almond:
i guess i just care more about the soldiers than you do.

Maybe I simply realize, as most others do apparently, that sometimes sacrafices must be made for the greater good. Or more likely, having served three tours in combat zones, maybe I just have a little better perspective than you do. How long were you in btw? Twenty-four months? Thirty-six months?
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Originally posted by Daniel Almond:
ok, i would like to define a US problem as one that affects people in the US, drugs(hence the police in mexico and cuba), crummy economy, no healthcare, no money for universities.
No healthcare? The US has the best healthcare system in the world. What do you mean no money for universities? I don't see any of them closing. You can graduate from the NY state college system (which features some of the best colleges in the country) for less than $20,000 total. It's true that the economy is not good right now but it isn't the first time and it won't be the last time. (The problem with being young is that the young have no memory of what life was like in the country 10 years ago. They think that prior to this downturn it was nothing but good times in the USA.)
And I think that terrorist attacks on Americans is somthing that Americans should be concerned about.
Daniel Almond
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 16, 2003
Posts: 29
i was in for 4 years, one enlistment, thats it. but as a paratrooper, not in the air force. did you fire that m16 you got to carry once on detail or was the quick class in the 6 week air force basic training the only time? i don't recall any air force computer geeks ever being in combat zones. bosnia certainly wasn't one and i really don't know what it was in southwest asia that you got deployed to. even my boss who was a paratrooper in GW-1 said all they did there was to ride around in trucks and i highly doubt any air force computer guys made the journey into iraq.
but, enlighten me as to your combat experience as i don't really know what it was that you did...
 
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subject: [political] Clear me on WMD arithmetics