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An Italian(born) as Indian PM - - - > how about that

Ashok Mash
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Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Originally posted by Paul McKenna:

1. She is a Catholic (this is nothing against her religion, but simply to emphasize the fact that she may not be in sync with 88% of India which is Hindu)
2. She grew up in Italy and immigrated to India only in 1968. This presents the condition where she maynot have culturally assimilated completely. We cannot verify this but the risk is there.


I agree with certain points that Paul posted earlier, about selecting someone who has a genuine interest in India and its tradition, than compelling someone whose obviously reluctant to enter the dirty arena of politics and spend rest of her life repenting! Mother Teresa would have been a great leader (by example) and there are a few non-Indians in India who would quality for the position, for their passion and past.

However, I do not find first of the above two reasons that important though. I do not think there�s anything wrong in electing someone who can do the job, than selecting someone like Laloo just because they are Hindu and understands Karwachauth or whatever! I agree with the second point, but its not as significant as one might think � because, after all, living standards, people culture is all different from state to state in India. I can not expect Atal Bihari Vajpayee from UP to understand how important Vishu (local near year day) for Keralites, or can�t expect my Chief Minister, AK Antony (who�s a catholic, by the way) to understand the significance of �a visit to Vaishnavi Matha temple�!! Because of the size and diversity of the country, its always been a compromise, and Sonia isn�t all that different!


[ flickr ]
Bhau Mhatre
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Joined: Jun 11, 2003
Posts: 199
Thomas Paul---------------------------
I'll ask my earlier question again. For those who oppose Sonia because she wasn't born in India, would you prefer someone like Rudyard Kipling since he was born in India? (And before you bring up the situation in the US, the requirement to be born in the USA to be president is in our Constitution which makes it [b]very
difficult to change. But I would be happy to toss it out as I believe that it serves no useful purpose.)
---------------------------[/b]

Though the question sounds simple, the answers are really complex. From whatever little I know about Rudyard Kipling and Sonia Gandhi:

1. Rudyard Kipling was born (and died) during the time when India was under British Rule. Thus he was a Brit citizen all the time. So if we were to strictly adhere to the current constinutional laws, he is still not eligible (hypothetically). But this discussion does not make sense.

2. Suppose he were to live longer, and he were to choose to reside in India and accept Indian citizenship just like millions of other Indian-residents-under-british-rule did after 1947, he would 'probably' have been as eligible as any other Indian-- theoritically.
Theoritically for us, who were born in free India decades later.

Practically, for those who were born pre-1947 and who fought for the freedom to choose our own governments, Kipling would NOT have been allowed by the masses for the simple reason that he a decendant of a foreign power. He should go back to his country along with his other countrymen. Because if he comes to power, than all the concept of Independant Self Rule goes out of the window.

3. In case of Sonia, she 'came' to India much after Independence. But that is not the only problem. The much much bigger problem is that she is from a family that has been voted to power for four decades. And even after FOUR FULL DECADES of a complete majority in the Parliament, all we got at the end was a label of poor third world country.

After four decades, for the first time in our history, were we able to be happy about our own achievements under the leadership of P.V.Narshimha Rao and Dr. Manmohan Singh - yes both Congress leaders - but who had nothing to do with the Nehru-Gandhi family. After, that, for the first time, we were able to see hope in the economic stability under the leadership of Vajpayee, Jaswant Singh, and Yashwant Sinha - the BJP leaders. So birth-place issues aside, why in the world should the congress party elect a member that belongs to the Nehru-Gandhi family ONLY?

So the counter questions that arise are
a) Do the members of the Congress party truly think that Sonia can solve all the problems of the masses that her husband and in-laws Rajiv, Indira, and Nehru could not solve for years? Because the poor claim that there is not enough water and electricity in the villages. But the same has been true all the while from 1947. So is Sonia greater and better then the previous three generations put togather? That congress sees hope this time around?

b) Do the members of the Congress party truly think that there is NOT A SINGLE member the entire party who is more educated, more capable, and more experienced, than Sonia is? Even Dr. Manmohan Singh?

c) Do the members of the Congress party truly think that there is NOT A SINGLE member the entire party who knows the poeple, their culture, their traditions, their history, their values, their languages, their needs, their problem, their thinking, and their ways of lives, more than Sonia does?

d) Or is it that these member of the Congress very well know, that they hate each other so much internally, that they are ready to sacrifice their people's wishes only to make sure that their internal compititor does not get to be the PM and that Sonia is okay to serve their egos?

e) As for the foreign born issue, are these Congress people suggesting that they will accept Rudiyard Kipling if he were to contest as a leader of the BJP or some other party?


-Mumbai cha Bhau
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Murasoli Maran:
That's senseless.You should answer if you have any sense.


I would like to point out the number one rule of JavaRanch, which is "be nice". It seems to me that there are parts of this thread that don't quite live up to this. Let's keep it "nice".
Murasoli Maran
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Joined: Jun 08, 2003
Posts: 193
Originally posted by Paul McKenna:


1. She is a Catholic (this is nothing against her religion, but simply to emphasize the fact that she may not be in sync with 88% of India which is Hindu)


Who told 88% as hindu's???.This is a deceptive argument.

Core hindus are really 2% in india.which are brahmins.and india having 2000+ castes.and a small number of castes belongs to uppercaste.the rest is lower.

And When brahmin invaders come to india with an ideology for suppressing india(that ideology is called hindutva),there was'nt a religeon.Hindutva and caste system is imposed to indians by these brahmin invaders.

And majority of indian people does'nt have any religoen.there is more than one hundred thousand territorywise gods in india.

And majority of indians needs Sonia gandhi as PM.and they gave a mandate to her also.There is no caste and religeous based communalisation for indian people except a minority of upper caste fundamentalists.And they are trying to spread this communalisation indiawide.

I still asks the questien to Mr Paul McKenna that why you are saying as an indian?.If you are saying that becoz of our constitution and penalcode allows you to say that,Sonia gandhi is also an indian by penalcode.And if the ancestors of Sonia gandhi is foreigners,Your ancestors are also foreigners.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
TP: the requirement to be born in the USA to be president is in our Constitution which makes it very difficult to change.

PB: Why is it difficult?

TP: Because the people who wrote the Constitution made it hard to change. It would require a 2/3 majority of both the Senate and the House in order to propose the ammendment. It would then need to be ratified by 3/4 of the state's legislatures. In 225 years we have had 27 ammendments. The last one took nearly 200 years to get ratified.


Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Bhau Mhatre
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Joined: Jun 11, 2003
Posts: 199
Originally posted by Murasoli Maran:


Who told 88% as hindu's???.This is a deceptive argument.

Core hindus are really 2% in india.which are brahmins.and india having 2000+ castes.and a small number of castes belongs to uppercaste.the rest is lower.



So are you saying that only 2% people == Bhramins == the minority have been opperessing the 98% majority for hundreds of years?
Murasoli Maran
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Joined: Jun 08, 2003
Posts: 193
Originally posted by Bhau Mhatre:


So are you saying that only 2% people == Bhramins == the minority have been opperessing the 98% majority for hundreds of years?


Defenitely.with the help of some other castes who is also concideres as uppercaste.But the majority (80%) was suppressed.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Originally posted by Murasoli Maran:
Who told 88% as hindu's???.This is a deceptive argument.


CIA Factbook: Hindu 81.3%, Muslim 12%, Christian 2.3%, Sikh 1.9%, other groups including Buddhist, Jain, Parsi 2.5% (2000)
Murasoli Maran
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Joined: Jun 08, 2003
Posts: 193
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:


CIA Factbook: Hindu 81.3%, Muslim 12%, Christian 2.3%, Sikh 1.9%, other groups including Buddhist, Jain, Parsi 2.5% (2000)


I told the fact about this 81% told as hindu's.In which 2% brahmins and some uppercaste(20%) called as Hindus.rest dont having any religeon.They donno anything except caste and territorywise gods.and 2%(brahmin ideology) prohibited them to learn books also.
Ashok Mash
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Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Originally posted by Murasoli Maran:
I told the fact about this 81% told as hindu's.In which 2% brahmins and some uppercaste(20%) called as Hindus.rest dont having any religeon.They donno anything except caste and territorywise gods.and 2%(brahmin ideology) prohibited them to learn books also.


Murasoli,

I will have to disagree.

The �Hindusim� was not something that was brought in by an �invading group�. It�s a religion that evolved during the period of the Mohanjadaro/Harappa civilisaiton in the fertile plains of Sindu river, and it then spread (emphasis: spread, not enforced) by absorbing the local animist deities and beliefs as a part of it. Isn�t that why we proudly declare Hinduism is a way of life, not an �organised religion�? If people of Village X had a all powerful, all providing �Goddess of X�, over a period of time (over hundres of years or many many generations), them and the outside world (with their Hindu beliefs, which has room for more deities) comes to the conclusion that �Goddess of X� is in fact an incarnation of the �Goddess Kali� or �Durga� or some other existing Hindu deity. I would call this 'blending in' than enforcing or converting. This provides instant credibility to the beliefs of people of Village X, and the Hindu villages around them will in turn respect them and their beliefs � This is my assumption of how Hinduism evolved and spread over the Indian subcontinent, even with out mercenaries to spread it.

Interestingly, you can still see this process in action. Buddhism initially formed as a refined religion to expel bad practices of Hinduism, but now Lord Budha himself is being considered as a Hindu god! Its just the ever growing, all-accepting Hinduism in action there!

Anyway, my point here is, the small groups of native Indians embraced Hinduism because they found similarities, not because they were compelled to.

Now, if only you can tell me how this is related to Sonia Gandhi�s suitability to the PM�s position!!
[ May 18, 2004: Message edited by: Ashok Mash ]
Murasoli Maran
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Joined: Jun 08, 2003
Posts: 193
Originally posted by Ashok Mash:


....


The basics of hinduism,is constructed by 4 castes.That's what everyone expererienced as hinduism.


1) Brahmin
2) Khatriya
3) Vaishya
4) Sudra

These are the classifications.the casts coming under Sudra is concidered as 'untouchables' and 'unsawables'.Casts under vaishya is also concidered as untouchables but not that as much as Sudra.And there is lot of casts inside and the game is very verse to explain.

This is the practical hindutva we experienced.We donno much about it and it's writings becoz Majority is not permitted to learn books.That's reserved for some casts.

And there is lot of inhumen activities conducted as religeous activity.And moreover this system made majority of people as suppressed for thousands of years.So it's not hindutva,it's madness.

And these ideologies are brought in india by brahmin invaders.Before,there was no religeon in india.And if that nonreligeousenss is called hindutva,these brahmins and uppercastes should not be called as hindus.but they are calling that ideologies as Hinutva.so we are not Hindus.Becoz there is only a 'Non reliegon' in india.
Kishore Dandu
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Joined: Jul 10, 2001
Posts: 1934
Originally posted by Murasoli Maran:


I told the fact about this 81% told as hindu's.In which 2% brahmins and some uppercaste(20%) called as Hindus.rest dont having any religeon.They donno anything except caste and territorywise gods.and 2%(brahmin ideology) prohibited them to learn books also.


You remind me of someone talking stuff from 1980's.

Have you been to India lately.

Just as a example: My undergraduate class had 60 people. Out of which 58 are Hindu and all of them for sure are aware and conscious of which religion they belong to(they may not practise it vehemently, as is my case).
The other 2 are one of my best friends.

I have a feeling you were discrminated against at some point in life. If needed i would suggest you to go for some counselling.


Kishore
SCJP, blog
Ranga Sreenivasan
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Joined: Apr 01, 2003
Posts: 89
Manmohan Singh to be PM


Great news!!! He is really qualified and there couldn't have been a more appropriate and deserving candidate from the Congress camp.
Lets see if the markets can gain some lost ground...And hope the Leftists don't break any progressive measures that would taken by this government

Murasoli Maran
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Joined: Jun 08, 2003
Posts: 193
Originally posted by Ashok Mash:


Now, if only you can tell me how this is related to Sonia Gandhi�s suitability to the PM�s position!!



Originally posted by Murasoli Maran:

Poul McKenna introduced invasion here in this thread.so we must discuss about invasion and the logic of telling about foreign origin,and Paul McKenna showed his opinion about the acts of 800 old invaders.So i also wanna talk about the acts of 5000 year old invaders.And i wanna find the logic of suppression also.And the logic of riots also.and i need the logics of caste based ideology also...

.


Plz dont ask again.I already told this reply a few times.
Murasoli Maran
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Joined: Jun 08, 2003
Posts: 193
Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:


i would suggest you to go for some counselling.


Try to bring answers to my questien instead of suggesting something.It's becoming boring to me to repeatedly ask and tell answers for these kind of posts which is so senseless.If you are truthfull,why cant you clarify my doubts i have posted earlier?.
Murasoli Maran
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Joined: Jun 08, 2003
Posts: 193
Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:

Have you been to India lately.

Just as a example: My undergraduate class had 60 people. Out of which 58 are Hindu and all of them for sure are aware and conscious of which religion they belong to(they may not practise it vehemently, as is my case).
The other 2 are one of my best friends.



According to the numbers,My community are in many times more in number than invaders.So your post'll be good for invaders.
Ashok Mash
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Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Originally posted by Murasoli Maran:
According to the numbers,My community are in many times more in number than invaders.So your post'll be good for invaders.


Your community? I thought you are one of us, mate! The only community we have is 'Java Programmers Community' and we all follow JCP!
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
I would like to point out the number one rule of JavaRanch, which is "be nice". It seems to me that there are parts of this thread that don't quite live up to this. Let's keep it "nice".


Hmm... It's possible I didn't express myself clearly enough the first time. Let me please direct all participants in this thread to this document and this document. Please read those documents and take their message to heart before making any further posts in this thread. It is my sincere belief that friendly debate is fun and healthy, but when the debate starts to descend towards general unfriendliness, that usually means it's time to close the thread.
Ashok Mash
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Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Well, I've had enough of this �explaining logic� (a non-existant one that he is looking for) with Murasoli. No offence mate, I wouldn�t be trying to answer your questions any more.

As a last post on your point, I would like to point out to you that, over last two pages, we all answered your posts over and again � that is, Cast ssytem is a bi-product of Hinduism, how its practiced by Indians. There was no invasion that�s connected to this, as Hinduism, or the cast system was not bought in by an invading force, but by a our forefathers who lived in Indian Subcontinent, and followed Hindusim. And by that, most of us said, there is no connection what so ever between evil cast system, and origin of the people who practiced or promoted it. And Pauls argument still says because he was talking about �invading forces�, as external nations or political or social entities, moving their forces to India, capturing and terrorising the local population and ruling them, which is not how Hinduism evolved � heck, it evolved, not imposed! End of my rant!!

Have a good day, Murasoli!
Murasoli Maran
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Posts: 193
Originally posted by Ashok Mash:


Your community? I thought you are one of us, mate! The only community we have is 'Java Programmers Community' and we all follow JCP!


Everybody knows who needs and trying to create communal isolation in India.
Kishore Dandu
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Joined: Jul 10, 2001
Posts: 1934
Originally posted by Ashok Mash:


Your community? I thought you are one of us, mate! The only community we have is 'Java Programmers Community' and we all follow JCP!

Thats a good one.

Let us fight for the JCP cause and stop worrying about India, PM, caste, culture, religion etc etc.

It is really getting out of hand.

I think if I delete the first post, I think all the posts will be deleted.

But, since many of you guys posted a lot of stuff, I will not do that.

Have fun guys, life is too short.

Sonia, Rahul, Vajpayee, Naidu all these people are well set in life.

It is us, that need to create our fortunes with hard freaking work. Let us concentrate on that cause.
Kishore Dandu
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Joined: Jul 10, 2001
Posts: 1934
Originally posted by Murasoli Maran:


According to the numbers,My community are in many times more in number than invaders.So your post'll be good for invaders.


Half the class got in through reservations. So, your argument is not correct and right.
Murasoli Maran
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Joined: Jun 08, 2003
Posts: 193
Originally posted by Ashok Mash:
Well, I've had enough of this �explaining logic� (a non-existant one that he is looking for) with Murasoli. No offence mate, I wouldn�t be trying to answer your questions any more.

As a last post on your point, I would like to point out to you that, over last two pages, we all answered your posts over and again � that is, Cast ssytem is a bi-product of Hinduism, how its practiced by Indians. There was no invasion that�s connected to this, as Hinduism, or the cast system was not bought in by an invading force, but by a our forefathers who lived in Indian Subcontinent, and followed Hindusim. And by that, most of us said, there is no connection what so ever between evil cast system, and origin of the people who practiced or promoted it. And Pauls argument still says because he was talking about �invading forces�, as external nations or political or social entities, moving their forces to India, capturing and terrorising the local population and ruling them, which is not how Hinduism evolved � heck, it evolved, not imposed! End of my rant!!

Have a good day, Murasoli!


Castism and suppression is imposed.It's imposed by invaded aryans to dravidans lived here.And we all know which community is enjoying the fruits of castism most.and that community is the originators of caste system and they made it perfect for themselves.

Castism and suppression is imposed.No lower caste person gone to the uppercast and asked that "please make me lowcaste?.please!!".no.

Nobody wants to be in lowercaste.then how they become in lowcaste?.Caste system is imposed by brahmins to the lowcaste by their ideologies and smrithi's,I think you also know what smrithi's are telling.and the brahmins and uppercaste enjoyed the best fruits from it.And i what i am asking is about the 'suppression' which uppercaste now telling to communaly islate people,I have asked the logic of their 'suppression stories' a lot of times.Why cant you bring that?.
Kishore Dandu
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Joined: Jul 10, 2001
Posts: 1934
Originally posted by Murasoli Maran:


Castism and suppression is imposed.It's imposed by invaded aryans to dravidans lived here.And we all know which community is enjoying the fruits of castism most.and that community is the originators of caste system and they made it perfect for themselves.

Castism and suppression is imposed.No lower caste person gone to the uppercast and asked that "please make me lowcaste?.please!!".no.

Nobody wants to be in lowercaste.then how they become in lowcaste?.Caste system is imposed by brahmins to the lowcaste by their ideologies and smrithi's,I think you also know what smrithi's are telling.and the brahmins and uppercaste enjoyed the best fruits from it.And i what i am asking is about the 'suppression' which uppercaste now telling to communaly islate people,I have asked the logic of their 'suppression stories' a lot of times.Why cant you bring that?.


What are u talking about??

Let us consider Andhra. Brahmins are one of highest percentage of population from the so called upper castes. There was not a single Brahmin CM from Andhra in my lifetime. How can you say they are getting fruits?
If you are born as a lower-middle class upper caste you are the most bad shape in India.
That is because your parents can not afford some education institutes due to high fee structures, at the same time it is tough to get into public institutes since there is no reservation for you(since economic condition does not qualify towards any reservations). Then how about that group of people???
Murasoli Maran
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Joined: Jun 08, 2003
Posts: 193
There are two kind of suppression we talking on,

1) The suppression done by brahmin invaders who came in india 5000 years back.The brutal suppression is happening even now in villages madly.We experienced it.

2) The suppression(truth is somewhere else,and i say it false stories made by uppercaste fundamentalist) made by Mughal kings and christians about 1000 years back.

Then listen my doubt once again,

I am not understanding the logic of invaders blaming foreigners.!!.

I am not understanding the logic who says about suppression of thousands of years back,by even now suppressing a mass community.I am not understanding the logic of who do suppression openly complaing about illusionary suppression happened in thousands of years back.

good answer expected.
Murasoli Maran
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Joined: Jun 08, 2003
Posts: 193
Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:


What are u talking about??

Let us consider Andhra. Brahmins are one of highest percentage of population from the so called upper castes. There was not a single Brahmin CM from Andhra in my lifetime.


Who told the majority in andhra is brahmins?.
Kishore Dandu
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Posts: 1934
Originally posted by Murasoli Maran:


Who told the majority in andhra is brahmins?.


I am saying one(not the main) of the highest populated upper castes is Brahmin from Andhra.
Murasoli Maran
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Joined: Jun 08, 2003
Posts: 193
Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:


What are u talking about??


If you are born as a lower-middle class upper caste you are the most bad shape in India.
That is because your parents can not afford some education institutes due to high fee structures, at the same time it is tough to get into public institutes since there is no reservation for you(since economic condition does not qualify towards any reservations). Then how about that group of people???


But they have suppressed us for 5000 years.Now it's lowered in past 10-20 years,but before it was a brutal inhumanity towards majority by invaders.

Listen my questien carefully,it's not about the caste actually,it's about the logic of the uppercastes who doing riots by telling 1000 year old invaders suppression.

once again,

I wanna know the logic of invaders blaming foreigners.!!.

I wanna know the logic who says about suppression of 1000 years back,by even now suppressing a mass community and suppressed indians brutally for 5000 years.I am not understanding the logic of who do suppression openly complaing about illusionary suppression happened in thousands of years back.
Murasoli Maran
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Posts: 193
Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:


I am saying one(not the main) of the highest populated upper castes is Brahmin from Andhra.


So you are worrying about 'one' of the upper castes is not becoming the CM.What about the other uppercastes?.How many lowcastes become CM there?.
Murasoli Maran
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Joined: Jun 08, 2003
Posts: 193
Please concentrate on my questien !!.please !.lot's of attempts to divert.
Warren Dew
blacksmith
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Posts: 1332
    
    2
Murasoli Maran:

I wanna know the logic of invaders blaming foreigners.!!.

You are providing it yourself. You are blaming centuries of a repressive caste system on a foreign invasion 5000 years ago. By your own logic, India should be avoiding foreign leaders.

Sonia Gandhi has declined to be PM. You have your wish.
Murasoli Maran
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Joined: Jun 08, 2003
Posts: 193
Originally posted by Warren Dew:
Murasoli Maran:

I wanna know the logic of invaders blaming foreigners.!!.

You are providing it yourself. You are blaming centuries of a repressive caste system on a foreign invasion 5000 years ago. By your own logic, India should be avoiding foreign leaders.

Sonia Gandhi has declined to be PM. You have your wish.



I am quite happy to know that you are getting my point a bit,but i am not asking that.I dont want to blame the invasion of people of 5000 years back.

but why i am blaming invasion?..

Here's the point,The riots made by sangh parivar team is based on invasion of people 1000 years back.and the reason they are telling basically is 'Suppression'.Sangh parivar says that 1000 year old invaders suppressed them(5000 year olds).

I wanna tell them what foolishness they are telling as suppression and invasion of 1000 year olds.I wanna tell them about their foolishness of opposing Sonia gandhi.I am asking them to tell them by their answer.but nobody does it.and i wanna point out them about the foolishness to oppose Sonia gandhi becoz of foreign origin.
Murasoli Maran
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Joined: Jun 08, 2003
Posts: 193
Originally posted by Warren Dew:
[QB

Sonia Gandhi has declined to be PM.[/QB]


It's the saddest news for me to listen.
[ May 18, 2004: Message edited by: Murasoli Maran ]
San Su
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Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
Originally posted by Murasoli Maran:


But they have suppressed us for 5000 years.Now it's lowered in past 10-20 years,but before it was a brutal inhumanity towards majority by invaders.

Listen my questien carefully,it's not about the caste actually,it's about the logic of the uppercastes who doing riots by telling 1000 year old invaders suppression.

once again,

I wanna know the logic of invaders blaming foreigners.!!.

I wanna know the logic who says about suppression of 1000 years back,by even now suppressing a mass community and suppressed indians brutally for 5000 years.I am not understanding the logic of who do suppression openly complaing about illusionary suppression happened in thousands of years back.


Before you repeat this question one more time, can you answer this?

* Do you have a concreate proof that some invasion happend 5000 years ago?
* Do you have a proof that those invaders are all Bramins?
* Are you saying only the Brahmins aka uppercaste suppressed the lowercaste? How about the other, not so uppercaste and not so lowercaste people, treated the lowercaste people?

There is a famous saying in Tamil "Motta thalikkum mulangallukum mudichu podurathu". I got fever, blame it on uppercaste, I got less marks, blame it on uppercaste.. I fa**ted, blame it on uppercaste... as if the other castes behaved properly... sick...
Murasoli Maran
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Posts: 193
Originally posted by Sankar Subbiah:


Before you repeat this question one more time, can you answer this?

* Do you have a concreate proof that some invasion happend 5000 years ago?
* Do you have a proof that those invaders are all Bramins?
* Are you saying only the Brahmins aka uppercaste suppressed the lowercaste? How about the other, not so uppercaste and not so lowercaste people, treated the lowercaste people?


We have all history books as proofs.I believe in history books.And we learned that.

It's sangh parivar rewriting indian history as their imagination for reestablishing uppercaste supreamacy and brutality.But people in india only believe in real history.
Murasoli Maran
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Posts: 193
Now as hindu fundamentalists rewriting indian history according to their own agendas,there is a deliberate attempt twist history on on brahmin invasion also.This rewritten history is only for those seeking uppercaste brutality again.And majority indians cant be decieved by them.
Pradeep bhatt
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Posts: 8919

Maran

Why dont you join some policital party. DMK is good one, they also miss their Maran.


Groovy
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Murasoli Maran:
If my questiens are senseless,Why cant you answer that?


How can anyone answer senseless question ?


"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Paul McKenna:
Actually, you raised a good point. I wouldnt want Kipling as my PM even though he was born in India.

I dont see any reason why he cant be PM. If he holds citizenship of India, then why not.

How much I know about him, he was very much influenced by Indian culture and that could be seen even in his writings.


1. She is a Catholic (this is nothing against her religion, but simply to emphasize the fact that she [b]may
not be in sync with 88% of India which is Hindu)
2. She grew up in Italy and immigrated to India only in 1968. This presents the condition where she maynot have culturally assimilated completely. We cannot verify this but the risk is there.
[/b]
1. Regarding being Sonia a Catholic, I dont know what is your point.
If I go by the logic you presented, 88% people are Hindu in India, then Abdul Kalam should not be President, George Fernandise should not be Defence Minister.

2. 35 yrs is less for cultural assimialation ??? And that is also when she was not living in ghetto of her own society.

Mark Tully of BBC Radio.
I dont think that he ever applied for Indian citizenship. So I think I will never be happy to see him even as Chaprasi(office boy) in any Indian Govt. office.
I hope I have not misread but are you suggesting that learning Hinduism should be qualification of holding prestigious posts in India which itself is "secular" country as per Constitution.

Regarding Sonia, she could choose to live in Itlay with Rajiv but she lived in India.
She could go back to Itlay, but she stayed in India after assassination of Rajiv.
If you know that much about Mark Tully then you also must be knowing that she is the one who opposed the decision of Rajiv to be PM.
She was the one who opposed the decision of Rajiv to join politics after the accident of Sanjay Gandhi.

If she wanted to be PM of India she could have become in 1991 itself instead of PVN Rao.

And I think now she has given a tight slap to NDA by deciding not to be PM. It will leave BJP to live with no issues at all.
And thing is now that that its her wish whether she chooses to be PM or not. Now nothing is in NDA or RSS hand.
Pradeep bhatt
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

I dont think that he ever applied for Indian citizenship.


How can he become Indian citizen without applying?
 
wood burning stoves
 
subject: An Italian(born) as Indian PM - - - > how about that