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Indian arranged marriages

Damanjit Kaur
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Joined: Oct 18, 2004
Posts: 346
Die slowly, but little bit- everyday.
R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Dave Lenton:
What would be great is a way of combining the best of both worlds - to have a way of allowing families to come close together, but also to allow people to marry for whatever reason they want.


I think you missed the point that whether a person choses his/her partner or it is arranged by parents. Marriage happens more or less the same way i.e. parents will talk to each other and decide the marriage date, all relatives will be informed and then marriage will take place.

Its not that people dont go for court marriage.. but I think that holds a very small percentage of marriages.
And what I have seen even after court marriage people have to go through normal marriage ceremony in which parents are involved.


"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Damanjit Kaur:
Either first hang yourself and then shoot.
or
First shoot yourself and let others hang you.


ultimately its man who dies

I hope Angela will not read above line
Subhash Bhushan C
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Joined: Jan 27, 2005
Posts: 106
Kannada : Vivaha-vicchedana


Regards,<br />Subhash Bhushan.
kayal cox
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Joined: Aug 19, 2004
Posts: 376
RKS: Just out of curiosity, how many other men you interacted/interviewed from the point of getting married before finding you husband.


I interacted with about 5 guys over a period of two years. First was this guy who was a family friend. I had not met him for the past 7 yrs or so. We got a chance to spend some time, but I totally was disappointed. He smoked all the time, swore, and his attitude was too "Bad boy"ish for me

The second guy did not take off at all, because although we mailed a couple of times, he was too shy and orthodox to consider meeting me anywhere before marriage.

The third guy was very nice, very good looking. Too good looking, that he did not like me. He wanted somebody prettier

The fourth guy came to my home a couple of times. He was nice, but his mother was very demanding and tended to order me around. I was not comfortable with the way she handled her husband, her first daughter in law, the importance she placed on horrorscopes, er, horoscopes.

Guy number five wanted to get married right away, just when I was supposed to accept a very short term foreign assignment.

And then came along Mr.Perfect. Well, not perfect, but imperfections that can handle.

And thus Kayal got married
Inuka Vincit
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Joined: Aug 10, 2004
Posts: 175
Originally posted by Sonny Gill:
Also, there is a difference in expectations when comparing an arranged marriage vs. love marriage.

Probabely, in an arranged marriage, the most important thing you are looking for in your spouse is that she be a good parent for your kids, get along well with your family, and be a suitable companion in your personal and social life. Whereas, in case of a love marriage, the expectations could be a totally different kind.

As someone said, arranged marriages are successful, because you start from 0, and so can only go up , where as in a love marriage, there is as much chance of the (existing) love withering away as of its growing.


baah dont belive in the cultural BS the fellow countrymen feed you .

IMHO when you meet your soul mate arranged or otherwise you just know it. No ammount of questions or interviews will prepare you for it. I fell in love because my wife had all the qualities I have ever wanted in a women(including being a great mother). I assure you that most people( many of my friends) who marry for love think about parenting, getting along with the family etc.

I am not an Indinan but from the subcontinent. Personally (for me) I didnt want to have an arranged marrage because simply most people I know who got an arrangemarrage(90%) were in a pretty much loveless but successful relationship. To me Love is the binding factor in a marrage, it will keep two people together no matter what, and and most important of all happy as well. If two people get married(arragned or otherwise), and have no love for each other(not carring, not friendship, but pure and simple love) then it will be just an unhappy union of two people getting to gether to procreate.

As long as both people are happy it all good.


MCP (C# application dev 70-316) 860<br />SCJP 1.4 100% SCJD (URLyBird) 378<br />MAD 100% nuts
kayal cox
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Joined: Aug 19, 2004
Posts: 376
IV: when you meet your soul mate arranged or otherwise you just know it. No ammount of questions or interviews will prepare you for it.

I beg to disagree. "When you meet the right person, you will know it" is not always true. In fact, when I first talked to my husband, I was not very impressed. He doesn't look great, my first impression of him was not to my liking.... But after subsequent interactions, I realized that there were certain qualities about him that just hooked me. And how did I know it? Only by discussions, questions etc.

"Love at first sight" (sometimes even love itself) is often over-rated. So, if there isn't thunder/lightning, thats okay...
For some people, they might just know it right away, but I suspect for the majority, love just quietly grows on them!
[ February 17, 2005: Message edited by: kayal cox ]
Damanjit Kaur
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Joined: Oct 18, 2004
Posts: 346
kayal cox
"Love at first sight" (sometimes even love itself) is often over-rated.


Love doesn't have to be always at first sight like shown in Bollywood movies. Sometimes it happens because you are observing the other person , without the other person having knowledge of it and you find the traits in him/her that you were looking for in your soul mate.

Love is also not always the symbol of spoiled teenagers going for hormonal driven passion, making snap decisions of marriages and then end up breaking it up soon. In arranged marriages too, initially its hormonal driven passion and love at first sight when prospective couples meet first time and just click. Thereafter any no. of questioning and discussion just go on between both sides parents, the couples are just having nice time together before marriage rather than exploring each others traits. I even doubt if both of the partners speak really truth about their likings,dislikings for fear of breaking the marriage.

I was so much surprised to see some couples in Germany living together since their teenage without the bond of marriage or any social pressure and their ties are just as strong as any indian families till their grandparents. To me this seems to be an ideal measure of Love. Because they are financially and socially independent and can split up any time without any botheration but its love and commitment which binds them for so long.

As to the percentage of this type of couples in Germany, I don't know(might be very less), but they seem to me the most ideal couples.
R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Manish Hatwalne:
Very interesting!


I met her for 10 min + Rs. 40K (mb to mb) thats all my story is.

I took decision to marry her after 10 min + Rs. 5k duration.

During that period I told about myself, she told me about herself... and thats all.. And I think our frequency also matched because I am living outside of my home from past 12 yrs and she is living from past 7-8 yrs. And above all she understands my PJ

And AW my other problem is that I dont think too much before taking any decision ...

And rt now I am happy .. I know after marriage only she will be happy
[ February 18, 2005: Message edited by: R K Singh ]
Tina Desai
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 365
Originally posted by Dave Lenton:

I wonder if this could be the key factor in the lack of understanding between the western and Indian view of marriages. The same word is used, but a different meaning is being expressed.

Yeah can say. For us its big thing!

Originally posted by Dave Lenton:

There are also some negative points though. It seems to me almost as if the couple getting married become tools used by the families to bring about this closeness. While it may lead to a good thing, is it worth pressuring two people to do something that may not want to do? Hopefully in many cases the couple are happy to comply.

There can be many negative points. You cannot probably discuss and check EVERYTHING beforehand and then get married. Even though, as you would have read here, many thing are tried to address.

Originally posted by Dave Lenton:

What would be great is a way of combining the best of both worlds - to have a way of allowing families to come close together, but also to allow people to marry for whatever reason they want.

In India, if you fall in love with someone till a particular age, you have a love marriage. Otherwise, parents get u married. We don't marry FOR a reason. One has to get married and has to have children. Like from primary school, one goes to the secondary school!
Its very common. Im in UK right now and one lady staying downstairs said, 'I will never have children'. And then she asked 'will you?'. My reply was, 'never thought about it! So far as I remember, I always knew I had to get married some day and have children.'

Originally posted by Dave Lenton:

This is also something with good and bad aspects. The knowledge that a marriage is not a common thing will hopefully lead to some careful deliberation before choosing a spouse. I think most people dislike the idea of Britney Spears style weddings done as a drunken game and then cancelled the next day.

Marriage IS in fact a common thing. Re-marraige isn't. Its not if we dislike the Britney Spears style marriage etc, it is something that cannot happen in our lives.
See, Good girls don't get drunk!
Good boys don't take an advantage of it if the girl gets drunk.
Even if both of them get drunk, they are MOST likely to come to senses before getting close. Cultural bells ring in ears!
If they manage to get to a mandir to get married, the bhatji(clerji? the one who weds people!) will SURELY ask them where their parents are and what makes them marry at night? Such sacred events like marriage are performed checking the stars/time/day etc so that its a 'lucky/sacred' time to marry.
(Even if he doesn't, we need so much material to wed two people - flowers and coconuts and grains and what not for the rituals!)

And suppose, they do get married against of all these odds - there are good chances that people might make them live together and not get a divorce as now they ARE surely - MARRIED!

Originally posted by Dave Lenton:

On the other hand, pressure against divorce and re-marrying could lead to people living in unhappy situations. While a parent must think of their children above all else, if a person looses a partner and it will not harm their children if they get a new one, well its surely not a bad thing.

It does sometimes. But many a times, people learn to adjust and live. They get thrown in the same marriage again and again. So its like, you either work on it or suffer. So its your choice really. The world is never problem free. Re-marry and go in some other family and face some different set of problems. And when compatibility of more than two people living in a family matters, you can never never expect problem free state.

Personally, I feel people should re-marry. Im not against of it. But I guess Im too young to understand why people in their 50s do not re-marry in India. May be its cos, our spouse is the first one in our lives. There were few girls in my class who never talked to boys and vice-versa. So for them, it might be like their spouse is their first male/female friend and lover. Then we get thrown in in the same marriage again and again. You get so much used to the person you live with for 30-50 years. It might just be tough accepting someone else at such a later stage in life.


Originally posted by Dave Lenton:

This is sad. Hopefully things will improve and safety can become more common. It must be terrible for a person that has had this kind of thing happen to them - to be a victim twice, once by their assailant and once by society.


Well said.


Alongwith being a good coder, try to be a good professional as well!
K Riaz
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Joined: Jan 08, 2005
Posts: 375
Very interesting discussion.

Arranged marriages are no better than the "Western" style. Afterall, aren't women also judged on appearance? How depressing it must be for a women when a Man comes to visit her for possible marriage and does not like the look of her? What about the parents of this women? I have seen this and it is very cruel, people do get hurt.

I have also learnt that in this arranged marriage culture, women need men more than men need women. Women must be living a dream in this culture, not having to work ever again when they get married (for the majority anyway) so they can have kids, whilst the husband must work every hour god sends him to support his wife. I have seen this on many occasions and I cannot believe it. No wonder parents do everything they can to get their daughter(s) married.
Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
{
Afterall, aren't women also judged on appearance? How depressing it must be for a women when a Man comes to visit her for possible marriage and does not like the look of her? What about the parents of this women? I have seen this and it is very cruel, people do get hurt.
}
Very true.Arranged marriage is not much better than love marriage.Problem is time given is 40-45 minutes and girl's parents ask when they should call back for "yes" or "No".In many cases,parents from both sides are not ready to allow girl/boy to meet and discuss their views.It is not considered "descent" so the factor on which people(boys) decide is by appearance.My friend saw 43 girls.Finally he got married last month.


MH
K Riaz
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Joined: Jan 08, 2005
Posts: 375
Originally posted by Arjun Shastry:
My friend saw 43 girls.Finally he got married last month.


43?! Good god, what were his requirements? Was he looking for a Java certified wife or someone who is good with Integers?!
Dave Lenton
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Joined: Jan 20, 2005
Posts: 1241
Originally posted by Tina Desai:

There can be many negative points. You cannot probably discuss and check EVERYTHING beforehand and then get married. Even though, as you would have read here, many thing are tried to address.


True. This is a problem that some people with both love and arranged marriages encounter when a couple get married before getting to know each other. Certainly a period of time should pass to allow them to get to know about each other. That's why I think its a good thing for couples to live together for a couple of years before getting married - its a great way for them to learn stuff about their partner, although this may not be acceptable in many cultures.

I currently live with my girlfriend, and there is no objection from our families, but generation ago it would have been unthinkable for an un-married couple to live together in the UK.

Marriage IS in fact a common thing. Re-marraige isn't.

Sorry, bad phrasing on my part. What I meant was that marriage is not a common event in any one person's life e.g. its not often that a specific person has a marriage ceremony. This seems to be the reverse in certain parts of Hollywood where its not uncommon to marry three or four times.

If they manage to get to a mandir to get married, the bhatji(clerji? the one who weds people!) will SURELY ask them where their parents are and what makes them marry at night?

This is the strange thing about the Britney marriage - why didn't the person officiating at the marriage ceremony refuse to marry them? If they were drunk enough to annul the marriage, then you would have thought it would have been obvious to the official. Maybe its because marriage is business in Vegas - the official's company earns money from marrying people, so didn't turn them away.

It does sometimes. But many a times, people learn to adjust and live. They get thrown in the same marriage again and again. So its like, you either work on it or suffer. So its your choice really. The world is never problem free. Re-marry and go in some other family and face some different set of problems. And when compatibility of more than two people living in a family matters, you can never never expect problem free state.

I guess the trick is to achieve a balance between working for a marriage and ending it. Some marriages may not be fixable even with a life time of work, and others may be worth working hard at. Its a good thing that (in the UK, not sure about elsewhere) the legal process of divorce takes a long time - at least this gives a couple time to work at their problems and/or change their minds.
[ February 21, 2005: Message edited by: Dave Lenton ]

There will be glitches in my transition from being a saloon bar sage to a world statesman. - Tony Banks
Dave Lenton
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Joined: Jan 20, 2005
Posts: 1241
Originally posted by Kashif Riaz:


43?! Good god, what were his requirements? Was he looking for a Java certified wife or someone who is good with Integers?!


And understand if its pass-by-value or pass-by-reference
Tina Desai
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 365
Now my turn Dave!!

When I watched the 'Trisha show' for the first time, it was a total surprise. What a show! what sort of problems! God.. swearing and shouting and almost beating each other.
Does it reflect problems of common people or are they extreme, uncommon cases? Are such problems 'not-the-ones-the-majority-faces'? I always wanted a fair opinion on this.

We also see some traffic police shows trying to control people in the city centres at night. Is it a sign of prosperity? People don't even know what they are doing and saying. Police hear it all. And they say, 'These are not bad people, u see. These people are totally different the following morning'. Isn't it alarming?

And I better not talk about few US based shows. I feel frightened.

Are they using freedom well in UK?
Your thoughts please.

Regards,
Tina
R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Dave Lenton:
(in the UK, not sure about elsewhere) the legal process of divorce takes a long time - at least this gives a couple time to work at their problems and/or change their minds.


I think, legal divorce always gives you time to rethink about your decision.

If I am not wrong in India, they give 6 months to consider their decision for divorce and only 1 month to consider marriage decision(court marriage).
Dave Lenton
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Joined: Jan 20, 2005
Posts: 1241
Originally posted by Tina Desai:
Now my turn Dave!!

When I watched the 'Trisha show' for the first time, it was a total surprise. What a show! what sort of problems! God.. swearing and shouting and almost beating each other.
Does it reflect problems of common people or are they extreme, uncommon cases? Are such problems 'not-the-ones-the-majority-faces'? I always wanted a fair opinion on this.

I suspect that the producers of "Trisha" will look for people that are out of the ordinary - part of the entertainment of programmes like that is to see very weird people. If everyone was like that then it wouldn't be so entertaining. At least I hope so - if the majority of the population are like the guests on Trisha, then this country is in big trouble!

I read recently that this programme was in a bit of trouble. The producers hadn't found guests weird enough one week, so they hired some actors to pretend to be screwed up guests. When this came out in the press the public were not too pleased. The host nearly resigned - she hadn't been told about it.

We also see some traffic police shows trying to control people in the city centres at night. Is it a sign of prosperity? People don't even know what they are doing and saying. Police hear it all. And they say, 'These are not bad people, u see. These people are totally different the following morning'. Isn't it alarming?

This is alarming. It appears that people going out and getting horribly drunk is becoming more and more common. I'm not entirely sure why this is happening - I am in an age bracket that has a reputation for attempting to go and drink as much alcohol as possible every friday night, but I've never quite seen the attraction in spending most the night throwing up. I'd much rather have just 4 or 5 drinks and then head home for bed . Maybe it is a prosperity thing - people now can afford to drink more then they could a generation ago. Maybe its changes in licensing laws which mean clubs are more common. Its a bit worrying though.... and quite frankly embarrassing too - people in other countries are more and more seeing the UK as a country full of drunk trouble makers.

And I better not talk about few US based shows. I feel frightened.

Indeed. Hopefully programmes like Jerry Springer are like Trisha in that they show the oddest part of society. I have heard some Americans saying "Please don't judge us by Jerry Springer!". I find it hard to imagine that the entire country can be full of people called Chad (mullet, ratty moustache, 80's clothing) and Precious (mullet, dodgy makeup, 80's clothing) living in a caravan in Utah, dating their cousins, sleeping with their best friend's wife the overweight transsexual stripper from Ohio.

Are they using freedom well in UK?
Your thoughts please.

Yes and no. Some people use their freedom to do incredibly stupid things, but on the whole most people don't. I suspect that a large proportion of the population don't realise about how much freedom, wealth, health and opportunities they have in comparison with much of the rest of the world. Maybe its a sign of a successful society that people have the time and the opportunity to do stupid things.... but on the other hand people always find a way to be stupid.

What with the drinking and the football violence (rare, but often documented), I can't help wonder what the rest of the world thinks of the UK. Are we seen as decadent, foolish, rude idiots? I hope not, but fear so.
Tina Desai
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 365
Originally posted by Dave Lenton:

Yes and no. Some people use their freedom to do incredibly stupid things, but on the whole most people don't.


Well, I always feel that we have something to hold us back. Even when no one is there and everything is quite favourable to get drunk or do bad things, there is that little yet strong thread of 'culture' around your mind that pulls you back.

I wish people here understand the benefits they get by simply being born in the richest country in the world. When one has less worries, she/he should give better shot at succeeding in life.

Of course there are people who are destined to walk on wrong path. And it does not matter where they are.

Its not that few things are not in your culture and religion. But in our culture, the things are woven in day to day life. Instead of making a common man understand the pros and cons, the religious leaders simply stated things like - 'Don't do this this - God does not like it!' Simple yet effective. No one argues and everybody obeys Gives better control on a large population!

Regards,
Tina
kayal cox
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Joined: Aug 19, 2004
Posts: 376
Tina: I wish people here understand the benefits they get by simply being born in the richest country in the world. When one has less worries, she/he should give better shot at succeeding in life


Er, I think Luxumbourg and Norway are richer than America. Seem to remember reading that somewhere, based on higher GDP, I think.

But I get what you are saying.... While it may be true in most cases, I feel that, being born in a poor country, where you know you have to pay for your own education, medical expenses, and there isn't any social security/unemployment benefits, motivates youngsters to study well, get a job, and come up in life. Which is the major explanation as to why the middle class in India produces the most number of college educated kids, the most number of business entrepreuners, and an increasing rate in percentage of spending income.
PS Iyer
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Joined: Mar 04, 2005
Posts: 1
With regard to the topic,

I think an arranged marriage is a good option if you are a firm believer or devout to your caste, relegion or creed. For instance, my sister is a very traditional, orthodox iyer girl. She is very particular that her husband should also be of the same type - have the same tastes in food, art, aesthetics, devotion towards gods (also choice of favourite gods!) etc. and that she wants her children to also follow the same 'codes' and continue the tradition through the generations. Hence, it is now upto my parents and our family priests to find a suitable husband for her.

However, in my own case, I am more of a westernized guy - I don't strictly follow my caste (though I do pray everyday), I eat some non-vegetarian stuff & take pleasure in materialistic interests. I believe I can get along with any such westernized woman easily & will confidently go for a 'love marriage'. I made this clear to my parents, and although they initially resented it, now they are OK with it.

What I would like to point out to everyone (Indians or foreigners) is that you should NEVER FORCE A PERSON INTO AN ARRANGED MARRIAGE. Especially if you are thinking of choosing a suitable partner for your child, you should first ask him/her whether they are already in love with someone else & would like to marry each other. If yes, then you should give them the freedom of going ahead with their marriage. What you should not do, however, is forcing them to split up with each other by making up stuff like their relation is purely lust, incompatible, blah blah blah... (which 95% of Indian parents do, which is why I hate arranged marriages). If no, then you can go ahead with an arranged marriage.
 
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