Originally posted by Jason Menard:
No, but you might check the list of "countries who want to keep a murderous dictator in power".
I'm just saying...it's right there!
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
A Costly Charade At the U.N.
The article is worth a read imho.
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"I try my best to make *all* my posts nice, even when I feel upset" -- Philippe Maquet
He obviously doesn't understand American attitudes, does he. We have many countries that are relatively weak that are our partners. The Phillipines, Taiwan, most of the Carribean Islands are all partners with us.Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:
"GA: Then let me mention another feature typical of U.S. foreign policy, though America is hardly unique in this: a tremendous respect for strength. As far as I understand American attitudes, a weak country is no partner for them.
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
The antiwar demonstrations are truly noble. I know that differences of opinion and public debate over issues like war and peace are vital. We enjoy the right to demonstrate and express opinions today because East Timor is an independent democracy � something we didn't have during a 25-year reign of terror. Fortunately for all of us, the age of globalization has meant that citizens have a greater say in almost every major issue.
But if the antiwar movement dissuades the United States and its allies from going to war with Iraq, it will have contributed to the peace of the dead. Saddam Hussein will emerge victorious and ever more defiant. What has been accomplished so far will unravel. Containment is doomed to fail. We cannot forget that despots protected by their own elaborate security apparatus are still able to make decisions.
Saddam Hussein has dragged his people into at least two wars. He has used chemical weapons on them. He has killed hundreds of thousands of people and tortured and oppressed countless others. So why, in all of these demonstrations, did I not see one single banner or hear one speech calling for the end of human rights abuses in Iraq, the removal of the dictator and freedom for the Iraqis and the Kurdish people? If we are going to demonstrate and exert pressure, shouldn't it be focused on the real villain, with the goal of getting him to surrender his weapons of mass destruction and resign from power? To neglect this reality, in favor of simplistic and irrational anti-Americanism, is obfuscating the true debate on war and peace.
Originally posted by shay Aluko:
I salute the courage of the Turkish parliament in rejecting this war,over 90% of the turkish people reject the war and oppose US troops on their soil, we need more countries to step up and stand up for what is right.
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"I try my best to make *all* my posts nice, even when I feel upset" -- Philippe Maquet
Originally posted by Pakka Desi:
:roll:
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
Turkey was not "standing up for what is right". In 1991, the Gulf War and aftermanth did some ehfty damage to the Turkish economy. On top of that was what was a de facto civil war going on in part Turkey with the Kurds. They don't want a repeat, simple as that.
I'm glad that we won't be using Turkey as it will cause more trouble than it is worth. Supposedly we had caved into Turkish demands to let their forces accompany ours into northern Iraq. This would have been a huge mistake as the Iraq Kurds would have (rightly) viewed the Turkish military as an invading force bent on stifling Kurdish freedom, and hostilities would have broken out. This isn't without precedent, as when we established the northern no-fly zone in 1991, Turkish military aircraft, using the cover of coalition aircraft, would bomb Kurdish targets in Iraq.
Anyway, it will be best for us and the Iraqi Kurds if Turkey stays out of things. Ideally we would have been able to launch a northern front from Turkey, which would allow us to bring armored and mechanized forces to bear more quickly, but we can make do fine without it. I'm guessing though that the Turks will cross into Iraq anyway as soon as military action commences though, in order to clamp down on the Kurds. That has the potential to cause us some problems.
I Think it is self-serving beyond belief that the current US administration is so concerned by human right abuses in iraq that it want to bring "freedom" to iraq by raining bombs on its cities, killing its people by the hundreds of thousands and occupying it for years
Originally posted by Rufus BugleWeed:
1. Bombs do not fall like rain anymore, they are aimed. Serious consideration is made before a target is attacked.
2. Concern for others human rights is not self serving.
3. US concern for human rights of Iraq citizenry is a benefit which in comp sci terms is a side effect.
US is going to remove a wealthy, irrational, and dangerous despot that represents a percieved threat to life, liberty and the pursuit of hapiness of US citizens. Protecting US citzens is the duty of the US government.
[ March 02, 2003: Message edited by: Rufus BugleWeed ]
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
That is very interesting, it is one of those "aimed bombs" that destroyed the chinese embassy in bosnia a couple of years ago.
It was in Belgrade, Yugoslavia, not Bosnia. And it hit precisely what was aimed for.
may I remind people that some of these bunker-busting bombs are made of depleted uranium--anyone who knows anything about uranium will know very well its side -effects.
Uranium and depleted uranium are not the same thing, so knowing what the side-effects of uranium are does not contribute much to knowing what the side-effects of DU are. While people suspect that there are short-lived localized effects from spent DU weapons, there is currently no scientific evidence supporting this claim one way or the other.
Our country has never been so widely hated around the world as it is now.
And? Aside from the fact that this is merely your perception, it really doesn't matter. Life is not a popularity contest. As long as we are doing basically the right thing, as removing Hussein from power obviously is, I really could care less what others perceptions are. Part of the responsibiilty of strength is having the courage to do the right thing even when it's not popular.
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
I'm glad that we won't be using Turkey as it will cause more trouble than it is worth. Supposedly we had caved into Turkish demands to let their forces accompany ours into northern Iraq. This would have been a huge mistake as the Iraq Kurds would have (rightly) viewed the Turkish military as an invading force bent on stifling Kurdish freedom, and hostilities would have broken out.
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"I try my best to make *all* my posts nice, even when I feel upset" -- Philippe Maquet
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"I try my best to make *all* my posts nice, even when I feel upset" -- Philippe Maquet
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Shay, you really don't have clue. A war that will remove Saddam from power and free his people is a "genocidal" war that will kill "hundreds of thousands"? Where do you get this? The last war killed about 100 Iraqi civilians. What makes you think this one will be any different? If you want us to consider what you say why not toss aside the hyperbole and speak facts not fiction.
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
Latest updates on the "human shields":
Human shields: They came, they saw, they fled
Inside the deluded world of the 'human shields'
It seems some of Saddam's helpers have left Iraq, fearing for their lives. It's noteworthy how quickly their convictions were tossed aside as soon as it became apparent they might have to die in defense of Hussein.
Regarding DU, you're not telling us anything new. Best that can be guessed at this point is that the effects of DU poisoning are similar to the effects of poisoning from any heavy metal, such as mercury. Anyway, they are still lacking in scientific studies from the effects of DU after the Gulf War and Kosovo, as I had previously stated.
Originally posted by shay Aluko:
You want the facts, why not try checking it out yourself?. Its all out there
you can check out the website below if you want more info:
Originally posted by shay Aluko:
I think you should try harder, why not dispute facts from the information supplied instead of being dismissive and minimising it?. I am sure others observing this discussion will be willing to check out the facts for themselves instead of relying on your "learned opinion"
Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:
By the way, does anybody have a clue what is this "prosperous Kurdish democracy" in Iraq about?
"No one appreciates the very special genius of your conversation as the dog does."
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"I try my best to make *all* my posts nice, even when I feel upset" -- Philippe Maquet
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
Not to be argumentative, but that goes under the realm of opinion, not fact. I guess we will find out soon enough the validity of their guesses. Hopefully they are vastly overestimating.
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"I try my best to make *all* my posts nice, even when I feel upset" -- Philippe Maquet
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Where do you get this? The last war killed about 100 Iraqi civilians.
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"I try my best to make *all* my posts nice, even when I feel upset" -- Philippe Maquet
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"I try my best to make *all* my posts nice, even when I feel upset" -- Philippe Maquet
Originally posted by John Dunn:
The Kurds in the Northern Fly Zone are split into two groups and are quite at odds with each other. The do fight we each other. I think this will be one region that really gets affected by the potential war with Saddam. Hopefully they won't need to go thru the kind of bloodshed the Afgans witnessed after the Soviets left and before the Taliban came in.
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"I try my best to make *all* my posts nice, even when I feel upset" -- Philippe Maquet
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Uncontrolled vocabularies
"I try my best to make *all* my posts nice, even when I feel upset" -- Philippe Maquet
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
http://www.mod.uk/issues/depleted_uranium/misconceptions.htm
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/medsearch/FocusAreas/depleted_uranium.shtml
http://deploymentlink.osd.mil/du_balkans/index.html
Originally posted by shay Aluko:
Now there's a credible source of information alright, the ministry of defence of the UK, what a laugh
Originally posted by Melvin Menezes:
Suppose you are going to vote in an election where all the running candidates are dumb, corrupt, evil, or simply not worthy of the office. What choices do you have? You either abstain from voting or you vote for the lesser-of-the-two evils, right?
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
That is very interesting, it is one of those "aimed bombs" that destroyed the chinese embassy in bosnia a couple of years ago.
It was in Belgrade, Yugoslavia, not Bosnia. And it hit precisely what was aimed for.
may I remind people that some of these bunker-busting bombs are made of depleted uranium--anyone who knows anything about uranium will know very well its side -effects.
Uranium and depleted uranium are not the same thing, so knowing what the side-effects of uranium are does not contribute much to knowing what the side-effects of DU are. While people suspect that there are short-lived localized effects from spent DU weapons, there is currently no scientific evidence supporting this claim one way or the other.
Our country has never been so widely hated around the world as it is now.
And? Aside from the fact that this is merely your perception, it really doesn't matter. Life is not a popularity contest. As long as we are doing basically the right thing, as removing Hussein from power obviously is, I really could care less what others perceptions are. Part of the responsibiilty of strength is having the courage to do the right thing even when it's not popular.
Originally posted by Sameer Jamal:
Are you talking about India
Originally posted by Abadula Joshi:
When you find such lovely naive guy like Jason, you really can't laugh.