Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings -- They did it by killing all those who opposed them
Originally posted by vi kam:
Reasons AGAINST War
1) Saddam can be deterred and there is no need to fight
2) If US fights Iraq it is because it chose to do so and not because it has to do so
3) Its all Oil baby !!
4) Bush and his administration are war mongers and the current president has a personal score to settle with Saddam
5) US is to be blamed for Saddam as it was the US foreign policy of 80's that created this beast
6) This war if waged would bring about more Muslim wrath and hatred on US and Saddam might be viewed as an Islamic Hero
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
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Originally posted by herb slocomb:
[...] then the US can have a good reason to straighten out the whole mess with a Marshall plan like we did with Japan and Germany after WWII.
Originally posted by herb slocomb:
By attacking Iraq, the Muslim extremists in Saudi Arabia would revolt and try to overthrow the rulers who they see has having been corrupted by their close association with the US. The US then can step in to protect our "ally" and do a real house cleaning and set up a democratic govt as well as recovering the oil interests of US companies that were illegitmately seized by the Saudi's many years ago.
Originally posted by Axel Janssen:
Does all that exist in Iraq now in the same extent as in Germany, Japan 1945?
Do you realy believe that with some subventions like Marshall-Plan is enough to start a long period of democratization of society and economical growth?
Originally posted by vi kam:
so Ladies and Gentlemen .. :roll: .. Lets start like Ladies and Gentlemen and see how we end this one ....
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"I try my best to make *all* my posts nice, even when I feel upset" -- Philippe Maquet
Originally posted by Axel Janssen:
Come on, you guys in stars and stripes.
You live in a great country, but you are not the only actors on this planet.
Germany and I am sure Japan, too, had at the end of the war:
- a lot of skilled engineers
- a lot of intelligent entrepeneurs
- a lot of skilled economists
- a lot of incorruptible politicians and judges who have seen the hell and wanted to recreate a new country
- a lot of talented artists, intelectuals and journalists
- a society that knew that something went terrible wrong in the last years. Lots of them wanted no other but to work, reconstruct forget.
Does all that exist in Iraq now in the same extent as in Germany, Japan 1945?
Do you realy believe that with some subventions like Marshall-Plan is enough to start a long period of democratization of society and economical growth?
Originally posted by Melvin Menezes:
Would you be kind enough to elaborate on that?
1) Does the US (ofcourse according to your POV) wish well of the current rulers of Saudi Arabia to get their continued support in that region? OR,
2) does the US want a revolt to occur in Saudi for establishing democracy? (Promoting democarcy in the Mid-east sounds a bit over-ambitious of an adventure for now, though).
Isn't it that the Saudi Royals were safe all these while bacause of the help from US. So, if US wants to bring about a revolt, all they need is to withdraw the help? And how will attacking Iraq, help one way or the other in recovering the oil interests of US companies that were illegitmately seized by the Saudi's many years ago.?
Originally posted by Paul Stevens:
There is a democracy in the middle east. The rest of the middle east doesn't seem to like them though.
Pakistan was once a democracy. I think Indonesia once was also. I think Muslim democracies have a problem in that the Muslim faith doesn't respect the freedom required to have a real democracy. You can't have a Muslim democracy or a Catholic democracy or even a Jewish democracy. A democracy based on faith will always be non-democratic.Originally posted by <herb slocomb>:
OK, I think it would help if there were a Muslim democracy.
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Pakistan was once a democracy. I think Indonesia once was also. I think Muslim democracies have a problem in that the Muslim faith doesn't respect the freedom required to have a real democracy. You can't have a Muslim democracy or a Catholic democracy or even a Jewish democracy. A democracy based on faith will always be non-democratic.
Originally posted by Paul Stevens:
There is a democracy in the middle east. The rest of the middle east doesn't seem to like them though.
Originally posted by vi kam:
Reasons AGAINST War
1) Saddam can be deterred and there is no need to fight
2) If US fights Iraq it is because it chose to do so and not because it has to do so
3) Its all Oil baby !!
4) Bush and his administration are war mongers and the current president has a personal score to settle with Saddam
5) US is to be blamed for Saddam as it was the US foreign policy of 80's that created this beast
6) This war if waged would bring about more Muslim wrath and hatred on US and Saddam might be viewed as an Islamic Hero
Uncontrolled vocabularies
"I try my best to make *all* my posts nice, even when I feel upset" -- Philippe Maquet
Originally posted by Rufus BugleWeed:
Reasons For War
6) Countries about the world will know that violating international law is not without peril.
[ flickr ]
[ flickr ]
AJ: 3) Hope your government will consult regional neighbours like China, Japon, Russia and South Corea first.
There are cheaper ways of getting Iraqi Oil dealing with Saddam straight will be cheaper than the permanent American military presence that will be needed to keep Iraq pacified and stabilized, and to stop Islamic revolutions sweeping across the mid East.
I have spent half my life in operations of this kind we will end up doing what we always do, using a local strong man or men, who will play lip service to democracy and we will turn a blind eye to any excesses carried out in pacifying stabilization ops they carry out.
If the State Department has specific proof then release it and lets go in there.
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
This "article" was so full of holes it's not even funny. The source of the article (apparently some activist site) tells you all you need to know.
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"I try my best to make *all* my posts nice, even when I feel upset" -- Philippe Maquet
Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:
Jason, do you mean "MERIP" site? You later response to another post, so I am confused a little. If you mean the article, gave a link to, then what are your sources? Where do you get unbiased information?
[ February 07, 2003: Message edited by: Mapraputa Is ]
Originally posted by Kevin Thompson:
...
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
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"I try my best to make *all* my posts nice, even when I feel upset" -- Philippe Maquet
Originally posted by Kevin Thompson:
Items 1-4 are factual and can be proven in a court of law. We could fill whole libraries with the heaping pile of evidence for Items 1-4. Also, read the US Constitution regarding who in the US government gets to declares war.
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"I try my best to make *all* my posts nice, even when I feel upset" -- Philippe Maquet
Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:
[b] If you know better sources, please share them. Perhaps there is no such thing as unbiased media, then I want to see the opposite side (if to divide sides along this thread title "for and Against War with Iraq") with equally strong arguments. ("Saddam is an evil man" doesn't count)
[ February 09, 2003: Message edited by: Mapraputa Is ]
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"I try my best to make *all* my posts nice, even when I feel upset" -- Philippe Maquet
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