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Claire Fuente
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 07, 2004
Posts: 35
Originally posted by Gregg Bolinger:

And yes, as Claire stated, this is the place to voice your concerns, opinions, complaints about Javaranch. But this isn't a suggestion box. The powers that be don't just take all these suggestions and discuss them at the next board meeting. There is only one person, as Ko Ko stated, that really makes the rules. He does take suggestions from his Staff and members but he has the final word.

Hi Gregg!
You previously said above that this isn't a suggestion box. Right? How come this link says:
http://www.javaranch.com
JavaRanch
Questions, suggestions and whining about this site. Use the other forums to ask questions about Java.
Just my thoughts
[ March 08, 2004: Message edited by: Claire Fuente ]
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

Originally posted by Claire Fuente:

Hi Gregg!
You previously said above that this isn't a suggestion box. Right? How come this link says:
http://www.javaranch.com
JavaRanch
Questions, suggestions and whining about this site. Use the other forums to ask questions about Java.
Just my thoughts
[ March 08, 2004: Message edited by: Claire Fuente ]

Ahhh, I knew that was going to come back. What I meant was the latter part of my statements in regards. Suggestion boxes usually consist of a box where you put in a suggestion. Management gathers all these suggestions and discusses them at some board meeting. Or they just get thrown away.
We, on the other hand, usually discuss all "suggestions" right here in this forum. So my statement should have been,
"This isn't your everyday suggestion box"
rather than it isn't a suggestion box at all. Sorry about the confusion.


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Jeanne Boyarsky
internet detective
Marshal

Joined: May 26, 2003
Posts: 30138
    
150

Michael,
I'll stay with one or two questions that I personally DO want the answers to, for the contests containing content that I'm interested in.

You actually have a decent chance with this system. If you have a conversation with the author or other posters within the same thread, each post counts as an entry. This is stated on the rules page. I always feel like I understand it until I read threads like this (where a lot of people think only questions count.) But I asked once and a bartender explained it clearly.
While this does give the more experienced people a better chance (because they know more answers), these are the people who are volunteering their time and experience to help others. It seems like a decent tradeoff.
In the interest of disclosure, I've won two books (both in the unit testing forum.) For the first one, roughly half my posts were in one thread where I was trying to thoroughly understand the difference between two testing techniques.


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Thomas Paul
mister krabs
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
For those who have never read the book promotion page, here are the rules:
1)You must be a registered user of the JavaRanch Forums.
2)Your registered Display Name must meet the JavaRanch Naming Policy
3)Start a new topic or respond to a topic in the Forum where the promotion is running. Your post must be on topic for either the book or the forum to be eligible to win. Posts that simply say "I want to win" are not eligible. Every eligible post gives you an entry into the contest. The more you post, the more chances you have to win.


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Thomas Paul
mister krabs
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Originally posted by Claire Fuente:
I just notice when there are book giveaways, usually people with more knowledge in that topic wins regardless how many times he/she won in the past.
I was just looking at the winners of the last few promotions. I don't think your theory holds up.
Claire Fuente
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 07, 2004
Posts: 35
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
I was just looking at the winners of the last few promotions. I don't think your theory holds up.


That's your opinion and I respect it. But in my opinion, some of them may have enough intelligence and exposure/experience related to it that we might not know of.
M. Sullivan's post explains it best:

"Gregg,
Your missing Claire's point: More experienced people can just pluck questions from the air, meaning they can ask away and really increase their chances to win. Less experienced persons may not ask as many questions, and will have much worse odds at winning.
"

Thru experience, we also gain knowledge. That's why I arrived at that.
Isn't it nice if the book giveaway has the following effect on people who participate:
* People who can't buy expensive books (people in same situation like Kiibati Bankole. Remember her?) have a chance to win. I'm just pro people who can't afford to buy books than people who can buy books but still join the contest just to build their library of books. Sure they may give their time to share their knowledge, but nobody forced them to. And for that we are grateful. Luck will come to them someday in a different form because of their good deeds
* The author can help "another" person that might lead to patronizing his future books due to familiarity or may even recommend the book he/she got for free to a different set of people(serves also as a marketing strategy for the author).
* Someone "new" will be happy because he/she won.
* Active ranchers who posts will feel excited that maybe next promo it's their turn to win and not the same person again.
If those aren't nice, then go ahead and don't amend anything. I am just giving my opinion.
If it's really a "NO" then it's a "NO". It's fine with me. I rest my case . Unless, anybody still wants this post to continue to page 3 and so on, lol , then go ahead .
I already read what the owner and organizer's opinion and those are enough for me. I rest my case and I'll move on too, just like M. Sullivan
Thanks everyone for taking time to reply to this thread, whether it is negative or positive. Sorry for those of you whose blood boiled due to other's opinion / misunderstanding, just because of this one post I started
To the owner, organizers, and other ranchers, keep up the very good work you are doing on this site.
[ March 09, 2004: Message edited by: Claire Fuente ]
Jeroen Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 12, 2000
Posts: 5093
Originally posted by Ko Ko Naing:

One of the important rules of the Ranch is "be nice"... So why won't we be nice and try to win books by posting eligible posts? I do believe if you are nice and your posts are eligible to win, you will surely win one day... I suggest you not to be discourage...

Another interpretation of "be nice" would be to not participate in book promotions for a while after you've won one, giving others a better chance...
A coin has two sides, you know.
She's quite right that people with extensive knowledge about a topic are more likely to be able to post a lot of messages during a book promotion, and certainly more messages with information or questions about those interesting small details and fine points of a technology that can get you a win...


42
Ko Ko Naing
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 08, 2002
Posts: 3178
Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:
Another interpretation of "be nice" would be to not participate in book promotions for a while after you've won one, giving others a better chance...

Don't you want me to participate in a book promotion so that others can win too? It's some kinda radiculous, u know... You may or may not know that I usually participate in the book promotion that I think I am interested in that book... Otherwise, I don't bother and I won't waste my time on posting a lot of questions about the book that I am not interested in... U will see that I won't participate in the next book promotion, which is about the tapestry... So don't worry... U have chances to win...

She's quite right that people with extensive knowledge about a topic are more likely to be able to post a lot of messages during a book promotion, and certainly more messages with information or questions about those interesting small details and fine points of a technology that can get you a win...[/QB]

U might see Mr.Thomas Paul's post about it... Even his wife have a lot of questions after reading some docs from a book... Moreover, she's not an IT-related persons like us... Hope u've read that post... What I mean is that it's not a good reason that people with extensive knowledge about a topic are more likely to win...
I do believe that the program is smart to decide which posts are eligible to win the book and which are not... I just want to mention again that the program is not written by newbies, but by ones of the best prorgammers in the world... Hope u understand...


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Pradeep bhatt
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8904

I just want to mention again that the program is not written by newbies, but by ones of the best prorgammers in the world...

How do you know this?


Groovy
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:
She's quite right that people with extensive knowledge about a topic are more likely to be able to post a lot of messages during a book promotion, and certainly more messages with information or questions about those interesting small details and fine points of a technology that can get you a win...

But you don't get bonus points for the quality of the question. A lame newbie question has as much chance to win as a in-depth detailed question on a technology. As long as the post is on-topic it has as much chance to win as any other post.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
That's your opinion and I respect it. But in my opinion, some of them may have enough intelligence and exposure/experience related to it that we might not know of.
Certainly some of them do. And some of them don't.
* People who can't buy expensive books (people in same situation like Kiibati Bankole. Remember her?) have a chance to win. I'm just pro people who can't afford to buy books than people who can buy books but still join the contest just to build their library of books. Sure they may give their time to share their knowledge, but nobody forced them to. And for that we are grateful. Luck will come to them someday in a different form because of their good deeds
Are you suggesting that I require that all winners submit copies of their last 3 years tax returns? But how do you know that this isn't the case with the winners now? Pradeep comes from a poor third world country so using your logic, the contest is working exactly the way you want.
* The author can help "another" person that might lead to patronizing his future books due to familiarity or may even recommend the book he/she got for free to a different set of people(serves also as a marketing strategy for the author).
I'm sorry but I have no idea what you are trying to say. The authors helps everyone who posts a question.
* Someone "new" will be happy because he/she won.
Looks to me that lots of new winners have won this year.
* Active ranchers who posts will feel excited that maybe next promo it's their turn to win and not the same person again.
Look at this years winners list and you will see lots of new faces.
But the one claim that I think is truly absurd is that only people who already know the technology can ask questions. As I demonstrated earlier, someone who has never even heard of the technology was able to come up with a dozen questions.
Ilja Preuss
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
But the one claim that I think is truly absurd is that only people who already know the technology can ask questions. As I demonstrated earlier, someone who has never even heard of the technology was able to come up with a dozen questions.

The claim that you *need* a huge amount of posts to win a book is absurd, too. I won a book last year in a promotion I just posted two answers in (and felt a little bit guilty, actually), but didn't win in a promotion I heavily participated in (guess I need to buy the book... ).


The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

Originally posted by Ilja Preuss:

The claim that you *need* a huge amount of posts to win a book is absurd, too. I won a book last year in a promotion I just posted two answers in (and felt a little bit guilty, actually), but didn't win in a promotion I heavily participated in (guess I need to buy the book... ).

The same thing has happened to me.
Ko Ko Naing
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 08, 2002
Posts: 3178
Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:

How do you know this?

Do u think Mr.Thomas Paul will use the program written by newbies? :roll:
Lasse Koskela
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 23, 2002
Posts: 11962
    
    5
Regarding the who-wrote-the-lottery-program, I'd like to remind us all that a "newbie" can indeed write good software. The quality is (should be) evaluated based on the product, not the producer


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Joy Jade
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 09, 2004
Posts: 5
Originally posted by Lasse Koskela:
Regarding the who-wrote-the-lottery-program, I'd like to remind us all that a "newbie" can indeed write good software. The quality is (should be) evaluated based on the product, not the producer

I agree!
paul wheaton
Trailboss

Joined: Dec 14, 1998
Posts: 20498
    ∞

I have an idea for a better system, but I can't help but think a lot of folks will give me hell for it if I went this way:
Change the program to generate a list of names of all the participants. Thomas picks for winners based on what he thinks was their decency, generosity, humility and general charm. Maybe he can pick two people for asking good questions and two people for being helpful to others.
I think this is a much better idea. I trust Thomas to make good choices in this respect. Good and decent people win. Jerks and icky people lose.
Of course, the jerks would complain and complain and insist that there should be a random thing. My fingers would get sore typing "piss off!" over and over. I would get hate mail and dog turds in my mail box.
Thomas, on the other hand, would probably get gifts in the mail and love letters and messages like "I always liked you best Thomas."
So I guess things stay the way they are now. I haven't read anything here that convinces me to change.


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Mark Spritzler
ranger
Sheriff

Joined: Feb 05, 2001
Posts: 17249
    
    6

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