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Why they hate us??

Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
Actually... I think you may be right. I simply projected my motivations onto Jason's culture, but that's a myopic and dangerous approach. How can we know what his real goals are, if his way of thinking is so different from our?


Uncontrolled vocabularies
"I try my best to make *all* my posts nice, even when I feel upset" -- Philippe Maquet
Andrew Shafer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 19, 2001
Posts: 338

We can't, thats why we have to start bombing his neighbors.


!_I_Know_Kung_Fu_!
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Really? The only way, I or you could KNOW is if we believe everything our leaders and CNN are spoon feeding us. (cross reference this with your comments in the other thread and sprinkle a little bit of Map's intentional misinformation on top for good measure.) Further, let's pretend like we really believe that it was %100 Bin Laden and his minions. How many of the accused terrorists were Afgan? Let's do the math, 19 hijackers, 0 Afgans, 0 divided by 19 equals 0. We are unequivocally lashing out in the 'general' direction.

No I most certainly do not believe everything our leaders and particularly CNN are throwing out at us. But I am certainly able to collate info and analyse history in order to make an informed decision. But the rest of that statement belies yet another great error in the appologists way of thinking. Regardless if a single one of the hijackers was Afghani, Al-Queda, the network who at least in part carried out the attack, is sheltered and heavily supported by the government of Afghanistan, who for what won't be all that much longer is the Taliban. The Taliban and Al-Queda are practically inseperable. I don't understand how anyone can seriously believe that statement you made. If a bankrobber commits murder while robbing a bank, the getaway driver is also guilty of murder, even though he didn't pull the trigger. Similar analagy.
Is that what your leaders told you? It's not that I don't partly agree, but I'm starting feel like I'm listening to some analyst from CNN. Niccolo Machiavelli set it straight 500+ years ago, at least if your only concern is maintaining dominion over your principality. People should be embraced or destroyed, because they will always seek to avenge minor grievances. All we have done so far is punish a war torn people who had little personal involvment in 9/11, strengthening their distrust and steeling their resolve.

No that is what experience has taught me. I agree for the most part with Machiavelli, but completely destroying a good portion of the world is not a reasonable objective, nor is pandering to those who would see us dead.
Did you learn this from CNN? Did you know Mohammad said that Jesus was going to come back? Did you know that Abraham is considered the founder of Islam? There may be a small group of 'fundamentalists' that would echo these sentiments, but their views of Islam as are distorted as yours. Do you believe that is the view of the 'Afgan on the street'?

As I have pointed out ad nauseum, I am referring to one particularly twisted and evil view of the religion, almost cult-like really, not the view of Islam practiced by most the majority. This is similar to Satanism being a twisted version of Christianity (although the Satanists are much smaller in number and much less harmful). I would offer that most religions have a perverted form, and the Taliban/Bin Laden/Hamas/Islamic Jihad (you get the idea, no need to name them all) view of Islam is a perverted one.
Ever heard of Vietnam? Americans are as capable of commiting atrocity as any other group. War is bad, ok, it twists people up mentally and emotionally. I've seen photos of US infantry from the invasion of Iraq. They were taking snap shots of Iraqi corpses that had been flash fried by fuel air explosives. Not just taking pictures, but actually picking up the dead and posing with big American smiles on their faces.

Vietnam? You mean Mi Lai? The differences between us in Vietnam and how the Bosnian Serbs prosecuted their war are extreme. The perpetrators of Mi Lai are considered criminals by soldier, civillian, and government alike in the US. US soldiers came to the defense of victims of Mi Lai, saving at least some of them. The Bosnian Serbs who performed these acts were seen as heroes by civillians, soldiers, and governmet alike. No one came to the aid of their victims. Their acts were considered acceptable by the majority of Bosnian Serbs. And if you knew anything about the Bosnain War I don't think you would dare make comparisons between it and Vietnam. If you are going to compare it to a war, the closest one that comes to mind is the German handling of the Jewish "problem" during WW2. The difference being that more of the general Bosnian Serb populous supported the atrocities than probaly the Gernam populous did.
As for American taking snapshots with corpses in the Gulf, I haven't seen those pictures, but I guess it is in the realm of possibility. That's pretty sick, but it has no bearing on anything else we are talking about. It sure wasn't a widespread phenomena. As for your statement about war screwing people up etc.. I can tell from your comments that any views of war you have are all theory.
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Andrew Shafer:

He's just not like us Map, he's different.

No, I'm nothing like you Andrew. I am not an appologist for those who would kill us. I do not lend them any kind of support in any way, be it through words or deeds. I do not badmouth Americans as a people(what was that about all your American friends being ignorant?). I do not have a knee-jerk suspicion for everything our government does on our behalf (neither do I have blind faith). I do not feel the need to criticize my country at every turn. I do not make my livelihood by leeching off of a system that I hold in low esteem. I realize and honor the sacrifices of those who came before me that allow me to live with more freedoms than anywhere else on the planet, that allow me to prosper, and that allow me to do all this in relative safety and security. I realize that there are times when actions must be taken to maintain this freedom and way of life. I do not hold the belief that war under any circumstance should never be waged. I do not believe that we should kiss the ass of those who would do us harm, simply in the name of temporary safety.
So you are right, I am different.

[This message has been edited by Jason Menard (edited November 01, 2001).]
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
No, I'm nothing like you Andrew.

Um... From my distant point of view you are pretty much alike I like you both I am sure you both love your country, you simply emphasize different parts of the problem. Please, do not get at each other - we do not have too many deep thinkers here
Andy Ceponis
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 20, 2000
Posts: 782
Since i am not good at writing long responses, i will just say "amen" to jason. Exactly what i was thinking, just you said it way better.
Andrew Shafer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 19, 2001
Posts: 338


I don't understand how anyone can seriously believe that statement you made. If a bankrobber commits murder while robbing a bank, the getaway driver is also guilty of murder, even though he didn't pull the trigger.

I fully agree, but if you can't find the driver or the robber, that doesn't make the driver's neighbor guilty, it doesn't even make his brother guilty. If you are really concerned with taking care of specific individuals, how do cluster bombs come into the equation?
As for making us safer from terrorism, we can only hope to speculate either way. Maybe we should rehash this in 10 years?

As I have pointed out ad nauseum. . .

This has been pointed out many times, almost as many times as the generalizations about how Islam wants all Jews and Christians to die. Maybe Bin Laden thinks this way, maybe not, but it certainly doesn't represent anything to do with the core of Islam. I think the basic contention arises from the fast and loose way people and their philosophy get labeled 'Islamic'.

Vietnam? You mean Mi Lai?

I was in no way comparing Vietnam to Bosnia, or Serbs to Americans. I was only trying to illustrate that Americans are quite capable of committing 'unthinkable' acts. If you think Mi Lai was the only time brutalities against women and children were perpetrated by Americans in Vietnam, then you are delusional. That the Serbs savaged the Bosnian muslims, as qualitativly different as that might be, in no way excuses or justifies the American brutalities.
As for American taking snapshots with corpses in the Gulf, I haven't seen those pictures, but I guess it is in the realm of possibility.

It wasn't covered by CNN.
6th ID Fort Ord, CA Nov. 1991
A little drinking, the snapshots come out, several rolls of film. It may or may not be the norm, but it certainly happened.
As for your statement about war screwing people up etc.. I can tell from your comments that any views of war you have are all theory.

How convenient. I can tell from your comments that any views of war you have are all screwed up. Just kidding. Let's see, you joined up in 88? You may have seen a little bit of the Gulf? Do you really think this compares to what the infantry saw in Vietnam? I mean come on, there may have been some tense moments, but the Iraqi military was completely outclassed in number and technology. How many US soldiers died to Iraqi attacks? Friendly fire? Do you think that there is nothing to learn from the theory of war? How can you have faith in your military command? For the most part, many of them have nothing but their theories of war.
I am not an appologist for those who would kill us.

You are acting as an appologist for those currently killing. Terrorism is wrong, no one was ever truly convinced by violence. You can bomb and bomb and bomb, Al Qaida will dissolve in Afganistan and not skip a beat. Perhaps I am wrong, but I have to call it as I see it.
what was that about all your American friends being ignorant?

An observation? Americans are generally clueless unless you ask them about the new music video on MTV or who won the ball game last night. In general, Americans live unaware of the world politics and they quite like it that way. It's not bad mouthing Americans, you have to call a spade a spade.
I do not have a knee-jerk suspicion for everything our government does on our behalf (neither do I have blind faith). I do not feel the need to criticize my country at every turn.

I don't criticize at every turn, just the ones I don't agree with. Isn't that what democracy is supposedly about?
I do not make my livelihood by leeching off of a system that I hold in low esteem.

Leeching? Is that to imply that I'm leeching? I can tell from your comments that any views of leeching you have are all theory. If we really want to get off on a tangent we can discuss the implications of usury, debt based money systems, NAFTA, Nike, and what the hell, throw in Michael Jordan. The basis of capitalism is leeching off of those that are held in low esteem. With that being said, I do my work, I pay my bills, I pay my taxes, I'm not rich, but I don't do too bad.
I realize and honor the sacrifices of those who came before me that allow me to live with more freedoms than anywhere else on the planet, that allow me to prosper, and that allow me to do all this in relative safety and security. I realize that there are times when actions must be taken to maintain this freedom and way of life.

Those who would trade liberty for security, do not deserve either. Some Famous Person
When you consider freedom and your way of life, what do you think of the new anti-terrorism legislation?
I do not hold the belief that war under any circumstance should never be waged. I do not believe that we should kiss the ass of those who would do us harm, simply in the name of temporary safety.

I'm not a pacifist or an ass kisser. All I have attempted to do was point out what I consider to be detrimental to our long term safety and our way of life.
So you are right, I am different.

Different is good, but Map and I are still considering doing something to your neighbors. Can I have your address? (just kidding)
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
I was waiting for Andrew's post to check my hypothesis.
Digression: Normally, when somebody holds an opinion different from My Own I have two ready-to-use explanations. This person is either 1) idiot or 2) scoundrel. Now I feel discomfort because both do not work with Jason. So how can somebody as intelligent and well-intended as Andrew and Me so tirelessly refuse to see um... not "our point", better would be say "the whole picture"?
Jason's last post surprised me - looks like overreaction, reasons for which I do not understand
Hypothesis I have is that there is something very important on emotional level for Jason in his position, that makes him feel hurt when people like Andrew disagree with him and this is what makes him "fight back" and makes his opinions more extreme than they normally are. Jason, it looks to me that you respect Andrew less for his views. (I may be wrong here, then correct me). In this part I feel that my way of thinking is different and I wondered how Andrew would react - to check if his way of thinking is different as well. Seems so I did not detect that Andrew's attitude to you changed, neither did mine. (Again, I can be wrong. This time Andrew will correct me ) But I think it is close to the core of the problem... For some reason it doesn't makes me feel bad when somebody attacks my beliefs. To re-use Thomas Paul example some of his posts made me but it did not reduce a bit my general respect and I would say admiration of him. Which may be actually a bad thing, sort of unscrupulousness... But it makes easier for me to see that there is something valuable in the opposite opinion.
If I am totally wrong, feel free to attack me, I will make up another hypothesis
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:
I was waiting for Andrew's post to check my hypothesis...

I have started another thread and I allude to some of the issues there. But in regards to your question, I have issues with people who would enjoy all the benefits that exist as a citizen of the United States, but take those freedoms for granted and refuse to see those freedoms defended. I am not referring to Andrew here. It is a general statement directed at nobody in particular. I do feel very strongly about this however. Have you seen any of these anto-war activists on tv?Many of these anti-war activists just float from cause to cause looking for something to protest against. For the most part they are simply anti-government types. The only thing their freedom is for as far as they are concerned is for their own personal agenda. Any American who burns the flag is symbolically attacking the values America stands for and the American way of life, as such, they need to go elsewhere. Anyway I really have nothing else to say bout this right now. But let me quote British Tory MP Ann Widdecombe who is commenting about British citizens who leave to lend support to the Taleban:

if they come back to this country, they shouldn't imagine that they can then just enjoy the democratic freedoms and rights of a free society, when they have fought against it.

Let me also add that it was very late lsat night when I wrote that post and it may have come off more harsh than it might have if I was more awake.
[This message has been edited by Jason Menard (edited November 01, 2001).]
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
I'm not going to go too in depth into my response here. I've started another thread in an attempt to refocus the issues.
cluster bombs come into the equation

You've brought these up several times but I haven't bitten yet. Is there something you wanted to say about them?
. I think the basic contention arises from the fast and loose way people and their philosophy get labeled 'Islamic'.

Umm... they five themselves that label. I have explicitly differentiated between Islam as practiced by most and Islam as viewed by the likes of those we are currently dropping bombs on. What else would you have me call them? Calling them "those bastards" gets a little redundand.
may have seen a little bit of the Gulf? Do you really think this compares to what the infantry saw in Vietnam?

Well, for the record, there were conflicts other than the Gulf between 1988-2000, but we'll just leave it at that for now. No I do not think the two wars were comparable. They were entirely different conflicts. Terrain and the attitude of the US government and US cicitzens then vs during Vietnam were major factors why the Gulf war went the way ir did.
You are acting as an appologist for those currently killing.

I make no appologies for our military actions now as none are warranted. Are you saying theirs were?

An observation? Americans are generally clueless unless you ask them about the new music video on MTV or who won the ball game last night. In general, Americans live unaware of the world politics and they quite like it that way. It's not bad mouthing Americans, you have to call a spade a spade.

I guess all I can suggest is to try to diversify your acquaintences. I do not have similar problems.
With that being said, I do my work, I pay my bills, I pay my taxes, I'm not rich, but I don't do too bad.

And sometimes responsibility comes along with being a citizen. Are the words you spoke when reciting the Pledge of Allegiance that you most likely had to recite daily as a child just empty and meaninlgess?
Those who would trade liberty for security, do not deserve either. Some Famous Person

Benjamin Franklin.

When you consider freedom and your way of life, what do you think of the new anti-terrorism legislation?

I am scared by it. I think the FBI took the current atmosphere as an opportunity to push for legislation it has been wanting for a long time. The surveillance powers granted to them are unwarrented (literally as well as figuratively it seems) and a threat to the privacy of every American.

[This message has been edited by Jason Menard (edited November 01, 2001).]
Andrew Shafer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 19, 2001
Posts: 338

Jason, I have a really busy Friday, but I promise to make a full response to the new thread by Monday for sure. We may never see eye to eye, but I believe there will be a bit more clarity when I make a full response to that thread.
I place the highest value on my freedoms and would certainly fight to the death to defend them. I just don't see the 9/11 act of war/terrorism as an attack on my freedom, but an attack on my security. There is a qualitative difference, and both are worth defending, but I will continue to question the efficacy of bombing Afganistan in the name of freedom, while simultaneously pushing through legislation that takes my freedom away.
Though I may not know the name and shape of every plane, tank and weapon like I used to, I know that cluster bombs are designed to do one thing, indiscriminantly kill people. If you want to take out the Taliban, take them out, do it right. I'll address this in the other thread but I don't see how you can say you are only after the Taliban when you are dropping cluster bombs, its just not logical.
Another thing, and I'm sure people will take offense at this question, how can you consider suicide bombing an act of cowardice, but droping bombs from 10000 ft is not?
There have been many posts, most of them not yours Jason, that claim some nonsense like the muslims want all Christians to die, et cetera, perhaps I was over generalizing in my response to you. I kinda like 'those bastards' though.
There were certainly 'conflicts' between 1988-2000, would you consider any of these 'War'? I don't believe any of these modern conflicts offered the chaos and uncertainty that 'War' truely brings.

I make no appologies for our military actions now as none are warranted. Are you saying theirs were?

I'll address this in the other thread.

I guess all I can suggest is to try to diversify your acquaintences. I do not have similar problems.

Perception is reality. Ignorance is so prevalent, we have actually turned it into a form of entertainment. Street Smarts, Jay Leno, etc.
And sometimes responsibility comes along with being a citizen. Are the words you spoke when reciting the Pledge of Allegiance that you most likely had to recite daily as a child just empty and meaninlgess?

Liberty and Justice for all. . .my country has its own share of social inequality, perhaps I took the words too seriously?
[quoteI am scared by it. I think the FBI took the current atmosphere as an opportunity to push for legislation it has been wanting for a long time. The surveillance powers granted to them are unwarrented (literally as well as figuratively it seems) and a threat to the privacy of every American.
At least we can agree on one thing.

Paul Stevens
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 17, 2001
Posts: 2823
Another thing, and I'm sure people will take offense at this question, how can you consider suicide bombing an act of cowardice, but droping bombs from 10000 ft is not?

Here is how, 1 is an act targeted against civilians the other is targeted at military. In this case the dropping is very safe for the pilots. But take Iraq, the AA and SAM threat was very real and the pilot doesn't just drop and leave. So in that case yes it was very brave. But an act targeted solely against innocent civilians is never brave.
You are so brave why don't you go over and capture Osama? Do you even understand why the bombing takes place?
And as far as your repeated cluster bomb references. They are being dropped on the front lines alond fortified trenches. If civilians are being killed by cluster bombs, why are they at the front lines?
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Paul Stevens:
Here is how, 1 is an act targeted against civilians the other is targeted at military. In this case the dropping is very safe for the pilots. But take Iraq, the AA and SAM threat was very real and the pilot doesn't just drop and leave. So in that case yes it was very brave. But an act targeted solely against innocent civilians is never brave.
You are so brave why don't you go over and capture Osama? Do you even understand why the bombing takes place?
And as far as your repeated cluster bomb references. They are being dropped on the front lines alond fortified trenches. If civilians are being killed by cluster bombs, why are they at the front lines?

Absolutely correct. Cluster bombs are as legitimate as any other "dumb" bomb. They are particularly effective against troop concentrations. They are also pretty effective against troops who are dug in for the most part. They are a perfect choice of weapon to use against the Taliban forces dug in north of Kabul.
As far as I understand the argument against them is because like any munition, they don't all explode when they hit the ground. Some like to compare them to land mines because of this, but that is a poor and ill thought-out analogy. They are designed to kill anything within their area of effect, which is why they are being used against troop concentrations so effectively. It's not like we're dropping them on downtown Kabul, we are dropping them on specific areas where there are Taliban troops.
Unexploded ordanance (UXO) is a problem with any type of munition, especially if delivered from the air. I've seen these bomblets and they look like what you would expect. There really should be no mistaking them for anything else. They do not burrow into the ground to hide themselves. There is really nothing overly insidious about them (with respect to any other bomb). So just like any area after it is subject to attack, a thorough UXO sweep is a good idea in order to mark and remove UXOs, which may include unexploded cluster bomblets, or MK84's, or hell even a GBU-12 (although that one should be kind of obvious).
We have many other dumb bombs and area of effect weapons, so I don't understand what the problem with these things in particular are. Through the Gulf war many people seem to be under the illusion that all warfare can now be accomplished using only precision weapons which never miss the target. Excuse me, I should say all warfare by the US, since everyone else is exempt.
As far as US pilots dropping bombs being cowardly Andrew, you have heard of AAA and SAMs right? You are aware that in addition the enemy also has handheld SAMs right (Stinger for example)? Would you feel a little better if they made sure to keep their altitude within AAA or SAM range?
Michael Ernest
High Plains Drifter
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Joined: Oct 25, 2000
Posts: 7292

The cowardice of a suicide bombing isn't in the suicide, it's in intentionally targeting and hoping to kill civilians. The cowardice is in denying any involvement with the attack when confronted, refusing to answer allegations, then hinting that you are in fact responsible. The cowardice is in secretly charging your victims as guilty of certain crimes, then declaring the verdict only after you've "punished" them. The cowardice is in asserting your right to judge others while threatening them for doing the same to you. The cowardice is in willingly letting other people face massive military retaliation alone while you hide. The cowardice is in demanding the militarization of billions of others to your own cause by manipulating their religious beliefs.


Make visible what, without you, might perhaps never have been seen.
- Robert Bresson
Guennadiy VANIN
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 30, 2001
Posts: 898
The list is incomplete:


  1. Iraq tried to negotiate withdrawal of armed forces from Kuwait and asked one week but was told 24 hours and even before that the bombardment started


  2. Taliban wanted to sell bin Laden or to extradite him to another country but the a lot of bombs had fallen down rapidly


    1. I like, really, Afgani people, because they do not sell guests or even presidents like Jugoslavia that violated its own constitution for money.
      I live at the West already some years for not being surprised that there are respectful people that em masse support what they are told by TV. They just do not have that notion that we are bred from a childhood: "Let anything terrible happen, but not war. No way"
      But I have a hard feeling because some fsoviets change his name just to express his sympathy to communism. I think that was the happiest time of my love. Or it was just for expressing mild surprise about respectful americans. Y-e-e, it really hurts me (changing a name on Internet for this by fsoviet!!!?).
      Map, I am surprised that you are ashamed of parents or you are not proud. The fUSSR was not bombed, just like Jugoslavia, only due to hard work of your parents. I sincerely beleive in it.
      USA just put some impossible to fulfill conditions while they are already prepared for bombardment.
      Then there were some posts, in this forum, that fUSSR people is just like americans. Do not even hope.... Ha-ha-ha, 40% of fUSSR' population is muslims (in Kirgizstan, Tadjikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kazahstan, etc.) and even en inside Russian Federation, muslims have up to 20-30% of populatioin. No way, just stop projecting your way of life on anothers and evrything will be OK
Guennadiy VANIN
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 30, 2001
Posts: 898
The list is incomplete:


  1. Iraq tried to negotiate withdrawal of armed forces from Kuwait and asked one week but was told 24 hours and even before that the bombardment started


  2. Taliban wanted to sell bin Laden or to extradite him to another country but the a lot of bombs had fallen down rapidly


    1. I like, really, Afgani people, because they do not sell guests or even presidents like Jugoslavia that violated its own constitution for money.
      I live at the West already some years for not being surprised that there are respectful people that em masse support what they are told by TV. They just do not have that notion that we are bred from a childhood: "Let anything terrible happen, but not war. No way"
      But I have a hard feeling because some fsoviets change his name just to express his sympathy to communism. I think that was the happiest time of my love. Or it was just for expressing mild surprise about respectful americans. Y-e-e, it really hurts me (changing a name on Internet for this by fsoviet!!!?).
      Map, I am surprised that you are ashamed of parents or you are not proud. The fUSSR was not bombed, just like Jugoslavia, only due to hard work of your parents. I sincerely beleive in it.
      USA just put some impossible to fulfill conditions while they are already prepared for bombardment.
      Then there were some posts, in this forum, that fUSSR people is just like americans. Do not even hope.... Ha-ha-ha, 40% of fUSSR' population is muslims (in Kirgizstan, Tadjikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kazahstan, etc.) and even en inside Russian Federation, muslims have up to 20-30% of populatioin. No way, just stop projecting your way of life on anothers and evrything will be OK
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
Why people think I am ashamed of my parent's? I must expressed it badly. I am neither ashamed nor particularly proud. What I feel is 1) regret that they did not spend their lives doing something more useful 2) nice warm feeling that were there an open conflict between the fUSSR and the USA (tell me that it's too unrealistic), many of whom I am now talking to could be pretty dead - all thanks to my parents hard work. It's not a shame, it's something worse. My point was that we should try to realize why nice, civilised* and educated people who would never think about killing each other if met in person, can easily tolerate this idea in their roles of good citizens.
I wrote about my parents as a response to Jason's thesis that "They are not like we, they are different". Maybe sometimes "they" are different, I do not know. It just strikes me that in the above case "they" aren't so different.
------------------
*) I am going to insist on this spelling to symbolize my protest against American spelling chauvinism. This symbolic use of "civilised" was reinforced in a lost post of a prominent leader of MD's anti-American movement Omar Khan.

[This message has been edited by Mapraputa Is (edited November 04, 2001).]
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
Originally posted by G Vanin:
But I have a hard feeling because some fsoviets change his name just to express his sympathy to communism.

What are you talking about?
[This message has been edited by Mapraputa Is (edited November 02, 2001).]
Petr Igorovich Kurchatov
Greenhorn

Joined: Oct 21, 2001
Posts: 11

Are you referring to me comrade? In the old days criticising me could have earned yourself a free trip to siberia . But do not think you can get away with it, I can still send a bartender wielding a blunt knife to get you.
Guennadiy VANIN
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 30, 2001
Posts: 898
Mapraputa,
do you read in thread where you are posting a dozen posts?
Kurchatov has written that he changed his name just not to delete all his previous posts in javaranch
omar khan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 01, 2001
Posts: 183
Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:
This symbolic use of "civilised" was reinforced in a lost post of a prominent leader of MD's anti-American movement Omar Khan.

Map, you are wicked
By the way, I am using the "s" instead of "z" spelling to be in line with the anti-American milieu of Oxford and Cambridge(UK not US)
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
To me its real simple, people do good things and people do bad things and the innocent seem to pay the price for it. This world looks on its way to hell as everyones in it for that extra shag, pointing the finger, the money, whatever floats their boat.
I do believe in God and I do think, we will all pay at the end for every action and every thought.
I think as most people do in this law of physics to be present in the law of life. "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction". I think its just a matter of time.
Great nations fall, small nations rise. People everywhere do good and bad. I think both the US and the other Islamic countries have actions of guilt and I think as a result they are both paying for it as is, the rest of the world.
 
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subject: Why they hate us??
 
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