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Human Clone and future

 
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

I don't believe that they have done it. They are a cult looking for publicity and that is exactly what they have gotten. The news media is made up of idiots.


Amen Thomas!
I can't believe the media jumped into it like they did. Oh well. A lot of people bought it.
 
mister krabs
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Media Bungled Story -
http://www.msnbc.com/news/854497.asp?0cv=CB20
 
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Thomas, I don�t think we can have any logical, say �if human intelligence is not part of our DNA then it is not part of our brain�.
Everything human being have had cloned was material, which you are able to feel, see even tough it, e.g. a sheep, origan of an animals, portiones or any chemical particulars. There are no any evidence to proof cloning technology can produce non material thing like intelligence, which you cannot see, tough, produce and copy (That will be great ! if we can have produce or have a copy of Newton or elinstan�s intelligence, or everybody in this site can download a copy of Bill Gates� intelligence).
And this is a question we ask for thousands years �Where dose human intelligence come from�
Ask my option, Thomas �Where dose human intelligence come from� my answer is I don�t know and It seems to be recursive that human�s intelligence try to figure out where does human�s intelligence come from.
Never will I get the answer, if I were keeping ask myself �where dose I come from�, have to ask my mother.
From Clone human being, researchers will be lost interested after several successful, they might get something like very server mental disabled twins, and facing moral headache about using their organ, who is going to feed them.
 
Thomas Paul
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Nan, I think you have missed the point. Human intelligence comes from the brain being educated. A clone will be no different than any other new born baby. A clone of Einstein will not have Einstein's memory although he will likely be smart. You seem to think that intelligence is some "thing" which is sort of floating out there removed from the body but that isn't it at all. Intelligence is a product of the DNA that provides the brain and the training that brain is given during its life. When a clone is 6 or 7, she will learn to read and then she will go to school and aquire knowledge the exact same way that the rest of us acquire knowledge.
 
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well, thomas, can you explain intelligence then??
The way I look at intelligence is the organisation ( internal and external ) of the cells in the brain ( including neurons that carry messages ) to effectively do a task. The task may be processing some input, or storing some information, or issuing a command ( which may be linked to further brain cells being triggered, to do something else. )
How would you define Intelligence.
Regds
lupo
 
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Originally posted by Gregg Bolinger:

I can't believe the media jumped into it like they did. Oh well. A lot of people bought it.


I don’t blame the media at all. The story is sensational. Nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come. And human cloning is not that far off in the future if it hasn’t been done already. It is good that the debate is on. Nations need time to frame the laws and society needs to prepare itself for a lot of freaky stuff. We are living in interesting times.
Lupo, IMHO definition of intelligence is ability to think, understand and remember and other minor things such as plot murders.
 
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As far as I am concerned (and the scientific community) there has been NO CLONING OF HUMANS yet.
A claim is just that: A claim.
Independent proof is required as in an independent lab taking blood from the child and the 'cloned' adult at the same time.
 
Thomas Paul
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Originally posted by gautham kasinath:
How would you define Intelligence.

Read "Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid" and then get back to me.
 
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Define is such a strong word... and the term human intelligence seems self-contradictory these days...
Anyway in the present context I don't see why anyone should be dissatisfied with Thomas's definition: "Intelligence is a product of the DNA that provides the brain, and the training that brain is given during its life." (This definition, however, becomes problematic when one attempts to apply it to a general rational agent. Is an angel intelligent? A computer with AI?)
Cloning somebody is just an artificial way of making an identical twin; it's not as if somebody is changing the actual DNA. The intelligence that a clone actualizes in later life, should be, as common sense would assure us, no different from the usual oportunities and vagaries that shape the personalities and intelligences of twins.
However, from a psychological point of view, it would be interesting to speculate if a clone is more prone to suffer bouts of identity crises. Perhaps one can deal with a twin or triplet, but if there are 50 or 500 others more or less like me, it would probably sap the conviction that my personal identity is in any way special or unique.
 
gautham kasinath
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Read "Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid" and then get back to me.


OUCH!!
Well, I aint no good reader mate!!
Lupo
 
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How would the parents of a clone be defined? If a woman gave birth to a clone made from her DNA how would parentage be defined?
Even if she gave birth to the clone technically it has the DNA makeup that her parents produced. So technically her mother and father would be the parents of the clone - and she would be giving birth to an identical twin-type sibling.
Then on the birth certificate - how would parents be defined if the woman who gave birth is defined as the mother? Who would be the father? Her dad - or instead of "unknown" enter "none"?
I know these are simply wierd thoughts probably stimulated by a low level of caffiene this morning... But are curious to think about nonetheless.
 
Amitabh Sharma
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Originally posted by Leilani Ames:
[QB]
Even if she gave birth to the clone technically it has the DNA makeup that her parents produced. So technically her mother and father would be the parents of the clone - and she would be giving birth to an identical twin-type sibling.
QB]


Yes this does sound very confusing. I am thinking how many Indian movie plots can come out of this. They thrive on this kind of stuff.
Another thing is that will the parents feel the same kind of love for an artificial child as they do for their natural child.
Steven Speilberg's movie "Artificial Intellegence" comes to mind.
 
Angela Margot
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Thinking about it further, a clone would not have a mother or father. Even in "test-tube" babies a specific egg and sperm donor is present. There would be no such parental pair for a clone - even though DNA would match a pre-existing person. Simply giving birth does not designate a mother, for example some women are impregnated with another couple's baby.
Yeah, AI does come to mind when you think of creating a person that technically would not have parentage.
I need more caffiene... :roll:
 
Thomas Paul
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Biological mother and father are determined by who donated the sperm and egg that created the person. The sperm and egg would have been from the mother and father of the donor of the cloned cell. So the clone would have a biological mother and father who were the mother and father of the cell donor. So a woman could give birth to her own twin sister!
 
Amitabh Sharma
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According to one research that I saw on TV
love between two relatives is in proportion to the percentage of genes that they share. According to this research a father loves his own children more than his grandchildren because he shares more genes with his children than with his grandchildren (50 percent and 25 percent respectively).
If this true than you will love your clone more than you will love your parents or your siblings or even your biological child born naturally!!!
 
Thomas Paul
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Originally posted by Amitabh Sharma:
According to one research that I saw on TV
love between two relatives is in proportion to the percentage of genes that they share. According to this research a father loves his own children more than his grandchildren because he shares more genes with his children than with his grandchildren (50 percent and 25 percent respectively).
If this true than you will love your clone more than you will love your parents or your siblings or even your biological child born naturally!!!


If that were true then you would love your identical twin more than anyone else. I think love is much more complicated than how many common genes two people have.
 
Amitabh Sharma
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

If that were true then you would love your identical twin more than anyone else. I think love is much more complicated than how many common genes two people have.


I am not saying you are wrong but there is some substance in the study that I mentioned. I am unable to give you the name of the researcher or where it was done. The simple test that they did went something like this:
They take a large family. One by one a person from that family is asked to go under water and hold his breath for the benefit of one relative in the family (monetary reward in proportion to time spent under water). The longer he can hold his breath the more money his relative will get. It was found that people more made money for relative closer to them in them in the tree. The study was done on a lot of families always getting the same result. This was probably done in Europe.
May be you can try it on your family members to find out who loves you most!!
[ January 13, 2003: Message edited by: Amitabh Sharma ]
 
Thomas Paul
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If you are saying that I would make more money for my mom then I would for my third cousin twice removed then this is a silly study.
I would need to see more detail on the study and see if it has been reproduced and/or peer reviewed. It sounds like a bunch of nonsense to me.
 
Amitabh Sharma
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I tried looking up for source of that study on the web but could not find it. But you cannot deny that genes and love are related. You may have heard about that study where little kids were shown pictures of strangers and asked if they liked them or not. And it was found that kids (unbiased) preferred people more like themselves (race wise). Just google "genes" "love" and you will find some interesting stuff. There is a BBC site that was pretty good.
 
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Anecdotal evidence is not very convincing.
 
Thomas Paul
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Originally posted by Amitabh Sharma:
And it was found that kids (unbiased) preferred people more like themselves (race wise).

Which proves that racism is ingrained into children at an early age. I know that isn't true for my daughter because she wanted Tia out of all the Diva Starz:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00004TFSS
 
Amitabh Sharma
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It�s good to hear that children are unbiased. One funny incident comes to mind. I was waiting at the lights to cross the road and overheard a conversation between a little kid and his father. The man was having a hard time trying to explain to his kid why he had referred to a passer by as black man or something of that nature.
Ok here is something relating love and genes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/genes/future_human/lifestyles/future_love.shtml
From the above source:
In one study women have been shown to follow a well known phenomenon in mice. They prefer the smell of men whose immunity genes are least similar to their own. This is thought to be because healthy offspring need the widest possible range of immunity genes to protect them from infection.
 
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