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NFL Playoffs, who's your team?

Thomas Paul
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If the Pats don't win this Super Bowl they will be talking about a choke-fest for years to come.


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John Dunn
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The only thing worse than a Patriot fan is a Yankee fan. The difference is they have actually won more than 1 time.
The Yankee bad-image has been cleaned up quite a bit. There are no fights at all in the stands. The moment trouble brews the undercover dudes are on the walkie-talkies and uniformed cops are there to toss the trouble-makers. It's pretty swift.
Now if you show up during the playoffs with a vistor's jersy, the entire section you're seated in, (and sometimes the whole stadium), will stand up and point at you and scream "A**Hooooooooooooooooooo**!! whenever you get up to get food, etc. It's pretty funny. (I've seen a few clever women change those chants into favorable applause by lifting their shirts and exposing themselves)
But its all good fun...


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Jason Menard
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
If the Pats don't win this Super Bowl they will be talking about a choke-fest for years to come.

I don't see why. I think the Panthers look like they got themselves a pretty balanced team. To be honest, I was hoping Philly would win simply because I knew they would be easier to beat in the Super Bowl.
Mark Fletcher
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Joined: Dec 08, 2001
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Originally posted by Michael Ernest:
What a sweet weekend. Seeya, Green Bay! I'll be celebrating with a cheesesteak on a hoagy every 4th and 26th of the month until next season.

Guess you wont be munching on that hoagy whilst watching Philly play the Patriots in the final huh?
My money is on the Patriots now. Without a doubt they deserve to win it. If not then it will be quite a shock!
[ January 19, 2004: Message edited by: Mark Fletcher ]

Mark Fletcher - http://www.markfletcher.org/blog
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Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Posts: 13974
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
I don't see why. I think the Panthers look like they got themselves a pretty balanced team. To be honest, I was hoping Philly would win simply because I knew they would be easier to beat in the Super Bowl.

Right now the line Patriots favored by 6-1/2. Carolina was 11-5 and the Pats were 14-2 (most wins in the NFL) with a 12 game winning streak to end the season (which means they have won 14 in a row). If they lose they will be talking for years about how the Pats choked.
Michael Ernest
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Originally posted by Bela Bardak:

Seeya, Philly!

That's sweet, Bela, but you might be mistaking me for an Eagles fan.


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Michael Ernest
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Originally posted by Mark Fletcher:

Guess you wont be munching on that hoagy whilst watching Philly play the Patriots in the final huh?

The Bowl doesn't fall on the 4th or the 26th, so no loss there.
Paul Stevens
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No sense playing the game now. The Super Bowl is over.
Paul Stevens
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Let's get our predictions out and see who comes closest to actual score.
Pats 24 - Panthers 10
Unlike the ESPN computer run, I think the Pats D is better. I think any of the top four AFC teams would have won the Super Bowl.
Bela Bardak
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Joined: Jan 02, 2004
Posts: 179
Originally posted by Michael Ernest:

That's sweet, Bela, but you might be mistaking me for an Eagles fan.

It's easy to do considering your earlier post. Are you just a Packer-hater then?
Jason Menard
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Posts: 6450
Pats 17 - Cats 10
Joe Richard
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Panthers Rule!
Carolina Blue Baby!


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Ranga Sreenivasan
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Posts: 89
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
Pats 17 - Cats 10

Since none of the teams I favored made it :roll:
I might as well support the Panthers. (the anti-pats sentiment is still strong )
Panthers - 21
Pats - 13
Michael Ernest
High Plains Drifter
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Posts: 7292

Originally posted by Bela Bardak:

It's easy to do considering your earlier post. Are you just a Packer-hater then?

Oh yeah. Raiders first, then between Green Bay and Dallas it's hard to say whose losses I enjoy more.
Ranga Sreenivasan
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Posts: 89
Originally posted by Michael Ernest:

Oh yeah. Raiders first, then between Green Bay and Dallas it's hard to say whose losses I enjoy more.

Can't believe somebody hates the Raiders...
Being a citizen of the Raider Nation, I shall take offence to this statement
Michael Ernest
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This is my favorite story about Raider fans:
The Raider return to Oakland from LA was hailed with a large tailgate party at Oakland-Alameda Colisum, naturally. People came in all maner of silver-amd-black whatever. It promised to be a festival of misdemeanors and felonies, of course.
Among the people in the lot at the time was an unassuming guy carrying a camera, who was taking pictures of fans in their get-ups. Reporters later said some people humored the guy and one or two stopped to pose, but didn't otherwise pay the guy much mind.
At some point, the guy walked up to four large male fans, dressed in skeleton-armor with their faces painted black, and asked them if they would stop for a picture.
"Who the fuck are you?" one of the fans said, as reported by Scott Ostler of the San Francisco Examiner, and all four fans either stared him down or gave the guy the finger, presumably because he had no colors on.
Ostler, among other reporters covering the event, had chosen to record these events until this point, when he caught up to the fans, introduced himself, and asked him if there was a reason they wouldn't stop for a picture.
"We don't give a fuck who you are, and we don't give a fuck who he is. You obviously have no clue about the Raiders" was the reputed reply.
Ostler didn't bother telling them the guy with the camera was Daryl Lamonica, as he doubted they'd even recognize the name.
[ January 22, 2004: Message edited by: Michael Ernest ]
Ranga Sreenivasan
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Posts: 89
Originally posted by Michael Ernest:
This is my favorite story about Raider fans:
Ostler didn't bother telling them the guy with the camera was Daryl Lamonica, as he doubted they'd even recognize the name.
[ January 22, 2004: Message edited by: Michael Ernest ]

Hmmm....
And that story has led you to hate the Raiders and term all the fans such?
That brings up another interesting topic: Should you remember and recognize all the players of a team since the franchise was born to be considered a fan?
Michael Ernest
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The reason I hate the Raiders is I *was* a fan, in a town that was fanatical about this team. Then they left? Why? Money. They dumped an entire region of loyal fans because they wanted to be in a bigger market. It's not that they weren't cutting a profit, it's that they weren't cutting as much as they wanted.
Then the stories of course. Al Davis leaching a $10 million "we'll take a look" fee at Irwindale, a sad story about a small town outside Pasadena that had no business believing it could be a major NFL market, and a President of the General Partner who had no compunction taking their money.
Davis, a la Steinbrenner, tries to bury Marcus Allen on the bench, a Super Bowl MVP in the prime of his career. The Commitment to Excellence becomes the Commitment to Kiss Davis' Ass, and Allen says so during a Monday Night Football halftime interview. When MNF bothers to air something that controversial, it's a sure sign that the league, which is very protective of its image, thinks something's not right. Not worth saying much more about that, though, since Allen made the Raiders pay several times over. I lived for shots of Davis' neck veins popping every time Allen scored took a KC ball into the end zone, including a three-touchdown day where I could swear Davis was inches from a stroke.
Two words, ten years later: Jon Gruden. Another old-school Steinbrenner impersonation, another comeuppance for Davis that anyone who's been around the guy would enjoy.
Oakland tries suing the Raiders for eminent domain over the team. Nothing sadder than watching a town you lived in unable to move on. So every so often Davis came around and waves the prodigal son flag, looking for another Irwindale handout, and Oakland couldn't stop with the dreamy eyes. This goes on for 14 years until it becomes clear the Raiders have not only sucked the LA market dry, they've created an overtly violent gang culture for a fan base, and they want out of it.
Never shy to take a dollar without working for it, not only does Davis bring back the Raiders under ridiculous terms, he secures an agreement by which everyone loses except the Raiders: the Coliseum is modified to the detriment of the A's, who only have 6 World Series appearances and 4 victories in the previous 25 years so who cares. Davis strings out a financing model in the form of a Personal Seat License, whereby people not only have to pay for the right to keep their season tickets, thus redefining the idea of a season ticket, he also uses PSLs to finance luxury boxes and other upscale renovations those license-holders will never enjoy.
PSLs originated in Florida as a way to build sports stadiums that relied on the people who would use them to pay for them. Great idea -- stop pleading for taxpayer financing by plugging how much taxable revenue a professional sports team generates (and almost every hosting municipality will tell you it's not as much as they were led to believe) -- and let just the fans pay for their fun. But Davis wants to have it both ways: not only does he institute the PSL, he makes it a condition of coming back that the City of Oakland guarantee a full house for every game or cover the difference.
So, the same line of reasoning that says it's ok to modify the stadium and screw baseball -- because hey who watches even championship baseball in Oakland? -- and insure the maximum possible revenue for Raider games (all of 9-10 dates a year, mind you), says that it's the City job to sell the Raiders. Guess what? Since it's the City's loss if the Raiders don't fill up, Davis reasons that marketing is a City problem too. He can't be expected to spend money on advertising, after all, if he has nothing to gain by it.
And since then it's taken more than a few years for the fan base to clean up. The Blood and Crip and assorted rabble-rousing human trash from LA has been steadily losing interest. Still, Oakland has by far have the most hostile crowd to visiting team fans anywhere. One of my friends of 20+ years took his Dad, a lifelong Browns fan, to a Raiders/Browns game, and naturally he wore a Browns jersey. Now, being from the northeast, Brian's Dad can take a spirited heckling even at 70+ years old, but that crowd never left him alone. One person went so far as to dare him to stand up if the Browns scored.
Obviously Davis is a shrewd businessman; he certainly knows a sap when he sees one. But what he does sucks for football, sucks for Oakland. Prior to last season, we've had television coverage blacked out locally because the Raiders couldn't draw, and Davis refused to relax the full-capacity restriction for local coverage. Excuse me, I mean because the City of Oakland couldn't force enough people to go. Which means Davis still got the revenue for the unused tickets, but chose to punish the region for failing to attend.
On being a fan: there are fans and there are fans. Rooting for the Raiders because they are local, because you like their colors, because whatever, sure, I guess that's a fan. When I use the term I am thinking of people who know the history of their team, who exult in their victories, agonize over their losses, hold draft-day vigils, and compare the players of today with the players of the past. There's "oooh, the Raiders, I'm a fan!" and there's "that dog Romanowski reminds me of Matuszak" or "Remember Bo Jackson laying out Brian Bosworth like he was barely there?"
To answer your question, no I don't think of every single fan that way. A generalization is what it is: I'm saying, from what I've seen and heard, more bad than good. I've spent two winters in the Dawg Pound, and I think I know the difference between rowdy fans and nasty ones.
You certainly don't have to invest that kind of energy into the game to call yourself a fan. But if I were ever to show up at a Raider game, and I said "Jesus H., is that Daryle Lamonica? In the parking lot? Holy shit, this is great!" and the people around me asked, "Who's Daryle Lamonica?" I wouldn't know what to say. That's like someone calling themselves a Browns fan not knowing who Ozzie Newsome is, a Redskins fan not knowing who Sonny Jurgensen is...well, that's really all there is to it. How can you be fanatical about your team and not want to know what helped make the traditions your team stands on?
[ January 25, 2004: Message edited by: Michael Ernest ]
Paul Stevens
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But aside from that what have the Raiders done?
Bela Bardak
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Posts: 179
Ok that explains the Raiders. And the 'boy's, well most people hate Jerry Jones. But why do you hate the Packers? Because of Super Bowl II?
[ January 26, 2004: Message edited by: Bela Bardak ]
Ranga Sreenivasan
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Joined: Apr 01, 2003
Posts: 89
Originally posted by Michael Ernest:
The reason I hate the Raiders is I *was* a fan, in a town that was fanatical about this team. Then they left? Why? Money.

Man, that absolutely sucks!
The only reason for my rooting for the Raiders is they were an LA team once...and the only team worth supporting in all the LA associated teams (not a big fan of the Rams :roll: ). But I've been quite naive and have completely ignored the reasons (real?) why the Raiders left LA.
I just hope that LA gets a franchise back soon and an owner unlike "Al Davis". On an aside note, why does NFL make it a mandatory rule to get public funds to build a stadium? Why can't the ownership be private? That would make it easier to have an NFL team in LA.
I would be happy to have the Chargers back in LA, given the current circumstances
Jason Menard
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Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Ranga Sreenivasan:
On an aside note, why does NFL make it a mandatory rule to get public funds to build a stadium? Why can't the ownership be private?

The NFL does not have a rule stating that public funds must be used. Brand new Gillette Stadium in Foxborough Mass., the home of the New England Patriots, was privately funded by the team's owner, Robert Kraft. It's currently one of the best, if not the best, stadiums in the NFL.
[ January 26, 2004: Message edited by: Jason Menard ]
Ranga Sreenivasan
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Posts: 89
From the following article:
http://www.hjta.org/content/A000021_02994501.htm
"With the combined assets of the Los Angeles billionaires who want to own the team, it would appear that there would be enough private money to renovate the stadium and add parking facilities. But, the NFL is not interested in just making a deal with rich owners. The NFL motto is: Show me the money. Public money, that is."
This is a couple of years old, but probably reflects the general sentiment among NFL owners (still). :roll:
Jason Menard
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Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Ranga Sreenivasan:
This is a couple of years old, but probably reflects the general sentiment among NFL owners (still). :roll:

It may be a general sentiment amongst many NFL owners, but it is not a NFL rule.
Ranga Sreenivasan
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Posts: 89
Originally posted by Jason Menard:

It may be a general sentiment amongst many NFL owners, but it is not a NFL rule.

I stand corrected
Paul Stevens
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Posts: 2823
Originally posted by Jason Menard:

Waaahhh!!!

Hmm...
Michael Ernest
High Plains Drifter
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Joined: Oct 25, 2000
Posts: 7292

Originally posted by Paul Stevens:
But aside from that what have the Raiders done?

There is of course no comeback to that.
Michael Ernest
High Plains Drifter
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Joined: Oct 25, 2000
Posts: 7292

Hey Ranga, good article link.
Jason Menard
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Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Paul Stevens:

Hmm...

And I saw Patriots rushers being blatantly held by Colts blockers (you can do a nice freeze frame on Tivo of a jersey being stretched) as well as a no-call on a blatant delay of game penalty when Manning snapped the ball at least a full second (although I counted two) after the play clock ran down. If it's not called, it's not a penalty. I repeat again: Waaaaaaaahhhhhh!!!
Paul Stevens
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Posts: 2823
Originally posted by Jason Menard:

And I saw Patriots rushers being blatantly held by Colts blockers (you can do a nice freeze frame on Tivo of a jersey being stretched) as well as a no-call on a blatant delay of game penalty when Manning snapped the ball at least a full second (although I counted two) after the play clock ran down. If it's not called, it's not a penalty. I repeat again: Waaaaaaaahhhhhh!!!


Holding can be called on every play. Every lineman holds. The play they are talking about was a takedown to prevent the sack on 4th down. They only publisize the blantant no-calls not all of the little ones. If you were a fan of neither team, you would see officiating like this as a problem the league needs to address.
The fact that they grade them in private and fine any coach who dares question the calls is wrong. This is the same problem I have with the NBA. Officials don't make calls supposedly so the players can decide the game. But by doing that they have already affected the game.
Jason Menard
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Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Paul Stevens:
But by doing that they have already affected the game.

Both John Fox and Bill Belichick knew that playoff officiating was different than in the regular season, yet their opponents were not smart enough to realize this for themselves apparently. You would think both Dungy and Reide would have known this; it's not like they haven't been to the playoffs before. Knowing this, they should have adjusted their game plans to take advantage of it, as did Fox and Belichick. You can certainly say then that Belichick and Fox outcoached their opponents, and that's one reason those are the teams going to the Super Bowl. Another reason is the simple fact that the Panthers and Patriots are just better teams than the Eagles and Colts.
Getting physical with finesse, timing-based passing teams has been the blueprint for victory against them at least since the Pats manhandled the Rams receivers in Super Bowl XXXVI. The Pats handled the Colts receivers to perfection, and by halfway through the game they seemed a bit scared. The Colts ultimately lost because they were pushed around physically and were intimidated. It was an outstanding game plan on the part of New England, and their defense carried it out to near perfection.
Now here's something I didn't know for sure was legal but apparently it is... There was one pass play they showed Law jamming Harrison and pushing him out of bounds (it was within five yards), kind of like they try to do to the gunners on punts. Harrison was totally manhandled as he was being forced out of bounds, but wasn't held. I've just never seen that before on a pass play.
 
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