Amul (an indian milk products firm) coming to Walmart

[Pradeep bhatt]

There was also an ad about US open (tennis).

[ChanSan Mehbubani]

why are u banging your head for that?

[Pradeep bhatt]

Originally posted by Tanga Palti:
why are u banging your head for that?

[b] India bundh or US Open always have Amul [b]

It was stupid ad. I think both Amul and TOI should shutdown.
I have stopped buying TOI long back but I still find stupid people buying it.
So
[ June 09, 2004: Message edited by: Pradeep Bhat ]

[Jason Menard]

If their Indian advertising practices were known in the US and they tried selling their products here on a large scale, they would be out quite a bit of money. Actually, I would be willing to bet that stores wouldn't even carry their products.

[Kishore Dandu]

Originally posted by Jason Menard:
If their Indian advertising practices were known in the US and they tried selling their products here on a large scale, they would be out quite a bit of money. Actually, I would be willing to bet that stores wouldn't even carry their products.

I am not sure why many of the American posters are taking offense for these supposed to be funny ads. They will change their ad approach depending on how serious they are about American market.

I am sure if American firms start these kind of ads, many Americans will be ok about it(well, they know zilch about many foreign cultures, so they will not care)

[Varun Khanna]

If their Indian advertising practices were known in the US and they tried selling their products here on a large scale, they would be out quite a bit of money.

and vice versa ...

Different countries, different cultures and maybe that's why different advertising practices ....
I never found american ads. appealing ... esp. the one having an element of "humour".
(this doesnt mean Indian humour is superior, but it's different)

[Arjun Shastry]

Originally posted by Jason Menard:
If their Indian advertising practices were known in the US and they tried selling their products here on a large scale, they would be out quite a bit of money. Actually, I would be willing to bet that stores wouldn't even carry their products.

They change their ads depending on region.In different Indian states,they have different ads depending on local culture.

[Jason Menard]

You misunderstand. I didn't say if they used those advertising practices in the US that they would likely not be carried in stores, as that pretty much goes without saying. What I said is, assuming the first post in this thread is correct and their products will be carried in US stores, if US consumers (or probably even the stores themselves) knew what ads they used in India and their often anti-American flavor, they would likely not be carried on store shelves in this country because of this. In fact, it might be worth it to fire off a letter to Walmart Corporate Headquarters making them aware of the situation in order to see if they are willing to pull the product(s), if any, from distribution. I have a feeling they might just be willing to do that if they knew all the facts.

[Kishore Dandu]

Originally posted by Jason Menard:
You misunderstand. I didn't say if they used those advertising practices in the US that they would likely not be carried in stores, as that pretty much goes without saying. What I said is, assuming the first post in this thread is correct and their products will be carried in US stores, if US consumers (or probably even the stores themselves) knew what ads they used in India and their often anti-American flavor, they would likely not be carried on store shelves in this country because of this. In fact, it might be worth it to fire off a letter to Walmart Corporate Headquarters making them aware of the situation in order to see if they are willing to pull the product(s), if any, from distribution. I have a feeling they might just be willing to do that if they knew all the facts.

Why are we worried about funny ads that appear in India, they may comeup with better stuff here. Why don't we concentrate on the quality of Amul products rather than on the stupid out of time ads(and ofcourse stop going the path of sending letters and protesting for 'falthu' reasons)

[Arjun Shastry]

Originally posted by Jason Menard:
... if US consumers (or probably even the stores themselves) knew what ads they used in India and their often anti-American flavor, they would likely not be carried on store shelves in this country because of this. In fact, it might be worth it to fire off a letter to Walmart Corporate Headquarters making them aware of the situation in order to see if they are willing to pull the product(s), if any, from distribution. I have a feeling they might just be willing to do that if they knew all the facts.

Ads if you see based on facts in newspapers.Many Ads(by Amul) have criticized India as well.For example ne ad showing fiasco of 'feel good factor' propaganda of previous government.But that does not mean ad is anti Indian.

(Arms deal corruption)




[ June 09, 2004: Message edited by: Ram Abdullah D'Souza ]
[ June 09, 2004: Message edited by: Ram Abdullah D'Souza ]

[Jason Menard]

Originally posted by Ram Abdullah D'Souza:
Many Ads have criticized India as well.

I can tell you that in all honesty I have never seen a single ad in this country mention India, outside of one of those "feed the children" ads, and certainly nothing political. That doesn't mean that there haven't been any in some obscure publication somewhere, but I certainly have never seen one.

[Mohan Panigrahi]

Originally posted by Jason Menard
..if US consumers (or probably even the stores themselves) knew what ads they used in India and their often anti-American flavor, they would likely not be carried on store shelves in this country..

It is so funny!
Now you want to categorize everything that exists, be what it may as either American or Anti-American. This is height of all heights...


The ads are running in India, thousands of miles away in totally different culture, where people have enough issues to deal with than to decide - what they will be today- American or anti-American

[ June 09, 2004: Message edited by: Mohan Panigrahi ]
[ June 09, 2004: Message edited by: Mohan Panigrahi ]

[Paul McKenna]

Originally posted by Jason Menard:
I can tell you that in all honesty I have never seen a single ad in this country mention India

I think you perhaps misunderstood.. I think Cap said that Amul ads have also criticized India in many of their ad-campaigns. He didnt say that Americans ads have criticized India.

[Max Habibi]

I don't think that's what Jason is saying. Jason is saying that he finds these ads to be anti-American: he's not speaking about anything other than these ads.

Not all Americans will agree with him, of course, but that's neither here nor there. If you're going to criticize him, do it based on his actual statements, not statements that you're projecting onto him.

[R K Singh]

Originally posted by Jason Menard:
if US consumers (or probably even the stores themselves) knew what ads they used in India and their often anti-American flavor,

shocked ..

I dont know how many Amul ads you have seen before this thread and still saying that ads were [/i]"often"[/i]with anti-american flavour.

And if we are talking about "scars and stripes" then it was just a ad on current affairs ..... I dont know how many will see it as Anti-American. But, yes, everyone has its own vision.

BTW, sometime back I saw an old US advertisement of Coke, where coke was linked with the US as every american should be proud of Coke.

But I think Americans does not know that in India Thanda Matlab Coca-Cola(Cold drink means Coca-Cola [with very much Indianess]).

And if you are talking about anti-Americanism .. then no one should drink Sprite in US as they have ridiculed US Yankee culture (where an Indian shows loo to a guy who was trying to act like american. ['I wanna do.'(remember the adv that sprite aired to counter Mountain Dew adv.)])

[Thomas Paul]

Just to clarify, if you showed the "Scars & Stripes" to Americans, many Americans would boycott Amul products. Beyond the message, it is a defacement of the American flag which we take very seriously.

[Jason Menard]

Originally posted by Paul McKenna:
I think you perhaps misunderstood.. I think Cap said that Amul ads have also criticized India in many of their ad-campaigns. He didnt say that Americans ads have criticized India.

Ah... I understand. Self-criticism is usually acceptable. However if a company such as Amul makes the mistake of creating political ads aimed at people who may find it quite offensive and not remotely funny, and then later tries to sell their products to those people, it is reasonable to assume that there may be fallout if people are made aware of the situation. If anybody knows Walmart, they should know that they have a carefully crafted corporate image that is very important to them. I believe that many would interpret that a company that produces ads such as the "Scars and Stripes" one would likely be incompatible with Walmart's corporate image, if they were aware of those ads. Walmart has proven that it has no problems dropping companies and goods that do not fit its image.

[Helen Thomas]

And there goes some nice new ads for Amul like :

RayGun

Kerried (as in creamed)

Just need to add some Hindi flavour.

I don't think Indians would like English-Hindi like brandy-pawnee
(brandy-pani or brandy water)

brijman became bridgeman (military term) though the original Hindi meant something else - denoting a military prisoner. Quaint corruption the story would be interesting.

brass-knocker - reheated meals apparently, a r�chauff� or serving up again of yesterday�s dinner or supper. It is said to be found in a novel by Winwood Reade called Liberty Hall, as a piece of Anglo-Indian slang; and it is supposed to be a corruption of basi khana, H. �stale food�;
Box-wallah is a packman - Bush Action Boxwallah

From Hobson Jobson. Bibliomania

Should be taken in the humour intended , preferably with a brandy-pawnee and sangaree (WestIndian).

If Amul want to sell butter to Britain they could try ads with English-Hindi flavours. I think it will be successful if they can get past EU quotas of mountains of butter piled doing nothing.
Probably brass knockered next decade.
[ June 09, 2004: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]

[R K Singh]

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Just to clarify, if you showed the "Scars & Stripes" to Americans,

And what if they know the reason for that adv. ?? As by now you must be knowing that these adv are mostly on current affairs..

Just want to know .. how do Americans take criticism ... let it be witty.

[Max Habibi]

Originally posted by R K Singh:

Just want to know .. how do Americans take criticism ... let it be witty.

As a point of information:

Americans take criticism the same way people all over the world do. Some listen to it, consider it on it's merits, and respond accordingly. Others will dismiss any and all of it through some convenient label.

Here's the tip off. If any American claims to speak for the entire nation, they're probably not doing so. And yes, that includes this post

M

[Ernest Friedman-Hill]

I think Jason's right about the "Scars and Stripes" being offensive, but viewed in light of all the other ads, I would believe that it was not created in a spirit of malice. As I pointed out earlier, these ads really don't seem funny to American eyes (if I can be so bold to speak for an entire country!) They just seem weird. American ads would never try to associate a product with a politically controversial topic. The whole idea of using prisoner abuse, Osama bin Laden, or (and perhaps this one is the most astonishing at all) the massacre at Tiennemen Square to sell butter seems so astonishingly bizarre that I can't find the words to describe it.

The most interesting thing about this thread for me is a novel glimpse into a culture that is so utterly foreign to me. Bollywood movies I can understand. This just has me floored.

[Kishore Dandu]

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Just to clarify, if you showed the "Scars & Stripes" to Americans, many Americans would boycott Amul products. Beyond the message, it is a defacement of the American flag which we take very seriously.

Well I thought they don't have a lot of respect for the national flag(like putting it on boxers, shorts, shirts etc). Well according to Uncle Tom, that is not the case.

I have a feeling some americans won't take it that seriously as you are thinking.

[Helen Thomas]

But if Amul were to advertise in India defaced Union Jacks the British Government would revert to EU stockpiles again. Some things are sacrosanct.

Here,Brands do not blatantly poke fun at politicians - A politician may take out an ad trashing another politian's policies.
The FCUK ads were taken off New York taxis within days after public complaints. Though I think FCUK are selling well in America - last time I looked. The public just didn't want them in their face all the time.

Moral : New York taxis are good for testing shock level threshholds. A matter of days was good news for French Connection UK.
[ June 09, 2004: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]

[Thomas Paul]

Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:
Well I thought they don't have a lot of respect for the national flag(like putting it on boxers, shorts, shirts etc). Well according to Uncle Tom, that is not the case.

It is one thing to put it on products but quite another to deface it. Look up "flag burning amendment" on google for an example of some of the controversy stirred up by defacing the US flag. It is true that not every American would be offended but enough would be to make it very difficult to sell the product in the US if that ad became public knowledge. I would imagine that WalMart, which is already having problems with their image in the US, would drop Amul pretty fast if they started getting complaints.

[Thomas Paul]

Originally posted by R K Singh:
And what if they know the reason for that adv. ?? As by now you must be knowing that these adv are mostly on current affairs..

It is one thing to complain about your own country but quite another to complain about a foreign country. What would you think if Coca-Cola rans ads in the US that complained about outsourcing US jobs to India? Would this affect your decision in purchasing soft drinks? What if the ad was about Hindu terrorism against Christian missionaries in India? Would that affect your decision?

[Kishore Dandu]

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
It is one thing to put it on products but quite another to deface it. Look up "flag burning amendment" on google for an example of some of the controversy stirred up by defacing the US flag. It is true that not every American would be offended but enough would be to make it very difficult to sell the product in the US if that ad became public knowledge. I would imagine that WalMart, which is already having problems with their image in the US, would drop Amul pretty fast if they started getting complaints.

well it already sold a lot in us(many international stores already carry amul ).

[Paul McKenna]

Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:
Well I thought they don't have a lot of respect for the national flag(like putting it on boxers, shorts, shirts etc). Well according to Uncle Tom, that is not the case.

I have a feeling some americans won't take it that seriously as you are thinking

I dont think having the flag on merchandise is a sign of disrespect. Heck, I'd buy a product if it carried the flag of my favourite nation on it, as long as it is not in a desecrating manner. Contrast this with Indian government policy of not even allowing the common citizen to own a flag or hoist it on top of his house until a few years ago.

[Thomas Paul]

Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:
well it already sold a lot in us(many international stores already carry amul ).

"A lot" is a relative term. I believe that Amul products are an insignificant portion of the dairy market and their sales are mostly among Indians living in the US. If they ever reached the point where anyone actually noticed them I am sure that those past ads would come back to haunt them.

[Paul McKenna]

Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:
well it already sold a lot in us(many international stores already carry amul )

I havent seen it any of the stores I frequent.. can you name some of the stores that do carry Amul? The only stores that have it are perhaps the ethnic grocery stores.

[Bhau Mhatre]

Ernest: In large part, I'm sure, the reason the bin Laden and Khomeni ads fly in India is because neither of these characters is demonized in India the way they are here.

Yes, you are right. The number of people in India who know anything about Khomeni is probably equal to or even half the number of people in US who knew anything about bin Laden or where Kabul is on a map before 9/11. People don't really have any affection towards these characters, but they never had any loathing against them either (our media may be blamed for this). Moreover, a lot of anti-US feelings had been injected into the people for a long long time over the years. That had changed in the recent past after a large number of common people could fly to US (for studies, tourism, or work) and see for themselves the truth. But the anti-Americanism injection has started again. Just an example of how they play psychological games

So, as you can see, a picture of bin laden eating butter does not evoke any strong anti-Amul emotions.


Ernest: American ads would never try to associate a product with a politically controversial topic.
The most interesting thing about this thread for me is a novel glimpse into a culture that is so utterly foreign to me. Bollywood movies I can understand. This just has me floored.

A few points might help understand:

1. India has not reached a state of mass consumerism. There are no large super-center chains, and stores are not filled with 50 varieties from 10 companies to compete. Amul has very very little competition (AFAIK). That their ads will hamper their sales is not a concern. Had we got Walmarts with 10 different companies competing, they would be more careful about their ads.

2. Their sales are not based on marketting. They just sell because of shortage of supply against the demand. Cheese and butter are a luxury for a large population.

3. Amul's cartoons are more like those found in a corner of a daily newpaper. They change daily 'trying' to make fun of well-knows issues. Some find them funny, some don't, based on their take on the issue and what's being shown. Those cartoon don't determine the sales of the news papers, though. Atleast, not in case of Amul.

4. Political correctness. We have a vast difference here on what's accepted. You can openly critize America to your heart's content, but a word against the terrorist organizations and you are a labeled as a Hindu fundamentalist, nationalist, US puppet, etc. etc.

5. One guy was a drug-addict, was caught under terrorism act (TADA), restricted weapon was found in his house, and his telephonic converstation with the Pakistan based underworld (links with terrorists) was even taped by police as evidence. What would happen to such a person in US? In India, he is accepted as a Bollywood superstar. His movie was even praised here at Javaranch.

Compare it with the fate of Dixie Chicks just because of their anti-war message. This is one very good thing (bad thing?) about America- mass reactions to anti-national ideas hitting the opponent economically. We lack that. For good or for bad.

All in all, when Amul was mostly local with large demand and without competition, those advertisements were like anything goes. Now if they want to be global, they will have to change accordingly, I think.

[Warren Dew]

Ernest Friedman-Hill:

I think Jason's right about the "Scars and Stripes" being offensive, but viewed in light of all the other ads, I would believe that it was not created in a spirit of malice. As I pointed out earlier, these ads really don't seem funny to American eyes (if I can be so bold to speak for an entire country!) They just seem weird.

I found about two thirds of them amusing, but then I might have absorbed some Indian humor from following the Indian election threads....

I think the cute artwork takes the edge off a lot of them. The American flag one is unusual among these examples in not having cute artwork; appropriate cute artwork might have been able to get me to laugh at it, too.

[Ernest Friedman-Hill]

Originally posted by Bhau Mhatre:

A few points might help understand:
[/QB]

Great stuff! Thanks so much for the explanation!

[Kishore Dandu]

Originally posted by Paul McKenna:


I havent seen it any of the stores I frequent.. can you name some of the stores that do carry Amul? The only stores that have it are perhaps the ethnic grocery stores.

Well. I know you are very americanized. But I can find them in 'International stores' like Fiesta in Texas and also almost all the Indian stores. I don't really need to buy them from Walmart.

[Helen Thomas]

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Here is their page of exports to the US:

http://www.amul.com/exports-us.html

I know what butter and cheese are. Perhaps someone could describe the other products. I'll bet these are most popular with the many Indians who moved to the USA.

At Tescos they did a range of ice-creams that have Indian flavours (must have spotted some competition in the ice-cream sector)

Mango and Pistachio
Mango and Kiwi
Pista, Kulfi, Kesar

Divine. I've made Jamun from a cookery book .It's fried milk-powder (with some raising agent) soaked in syrup. Depending on how they make the syrup it can be revolting to abs divine. A light syrup with a hint of rose water and the Jamuns puff up as light.
They are like tiny Rum Babas only I don't like English Rum Babas.

Perhaps the Italians make better Rum Babas which look like Jamuns strangely.
[ June 09, 2004: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]

[Paul McKenna]

Helen are you by any chance related to HS Thomas? Your googling capability seems to be just as fantastic..

[Sadanand Murthy]

Originally posted by Helen Thomas:


At Tescos they did a range of ice-creams that have Indian flavours (must have spotted some competition in the ice-cream sector)

Mango and Pistachio
Mango and Kiwi
Pista, Kulfi, Kesar

Divine. I've made Jamun from a cookery book .It's fried milk-powder (with some raising agent) soaked in syrup. Depending on how they make the syrup it can be revolting to abs divine. A light syrup with a hint of rose water and the Jamuns puff up as light.
They are like tiny Rum Babas only I don't like English Rum Babas.

Perhaps the Italians make better Rum Babas which look like Jamuns strangely.

[ June 09, 2004: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]

For those who don't know what kesar is, it is saffron.
And kulfi is basically Indian ice-cream made with khoya (basically milk brought to a boil & then simmered till the milk becomes semi-solid).

Helen, have you tried this recipe.

Making gulaab jaamun is certainly an art.

[Helen Thomas]

I think I be related to Homer Phillips if anybody.

It's a sin to provide links ? I thought Thomas Paul would like to tell a Jamun from a Rum Baba. (Thomas Paul is too busy reviewing his 1500th book). I suspect the Jamun and Rum Baba are related.

Sadanand Murthy : No I haven't. Yet. How about I try it on Father's Day ? Father has a severe case of sweet tooth.

[Pradeep bhatt]

HS Thomas

Does H stand for Helen?

[Helen Thomas]

I wouldn't know

[Pradeep bhatt]

Where is HS thomas? :roll:

Helen
Where are you from?
[ June 09, 2004: Message edited by: Pradeep Bhat ]