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Indian arranged marriages

Gerald Davis
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Joined: May 15, 2002
Posts: 872
Originally posted by Kashif Riaz:
What I don't like is that fact that you MUST get married. What? Eh? Where is the rule book? That is why I hate my culture, its so stupid. Thank god I am not a women, otherwise I would have been pulled out of school at 14 and put on the conveyer belt to an unneccessary marriage because "thats how its supposed to be".

I am abit anti-marriage anyway, as again in my culture we have the old fashioned "you go to work and leave the wife at home" routine. And as much as I hate to say it, women need men more then men need women.


Maybe things are the way they are because of good reason. The success of Indains in Briton is down to Indian culture and Arranged Marrage is one of them. Change one thing about that culture could have implicaton alseware.

Unless we can understand aranged marrages scientifically, messing with a thousand year old tredition for the interest of fareness is foolhardy.
Manmohan Singhania
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Joined: Feb 19, 2004
Posts: 55
.Is success in Britain guaranted if Indians marry by tradition?In that case,I want to come there.


Jayalalitha is my girl friend.<br />KarunaNidhi is my boy friend
K Riaz
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Joined: Jan 08, 2005
Posts: 375
Originally posted by Arjun Shastry:
I can guess her thinking pattern?


Ask him/her about Design Patterns, even if they don't work in IT!!! Sorry, I just couldn't help it...

/hail the Singleton
Mehul Sanghvi
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Joined: Feb 04, 2002
Posts: 134

Can you provide a word in any Indian language equivalent to 'divorce'.
The only word I know is 'Talaq', but then its a Urdu word.


Gujarati = Chuttacheda
Stephen Huey
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Joined: Jul 15, 2003
Posts: 618
Originally posted by Dave Lenton:


Under this model people shouldn't live together, or even spend a night together, before they are married.

The problem with this is that until people do spend some time living together, or do become intimate with each other, there are large parts of each other's lives that they will not know. Some people are lucky, but in other cases one person will only find out certain problematic aspects of their partner's personality once they are living together.




And here's where I differ. I'm pretty certain that allowing such strong physical intimacy before marriage introduces some variables that might make it much HARDER to tell if you truly love the person (instead of basing a lot of your decision just on how you feel when you're enjoying that person physically). It's true that when dating, people often just try to put their best face forward, so there might be a lot you don't know. This is where putting a considerable deal of time and energy into getting to know them pays off.

The so-called Christian model you see in the US is often pseudo-Christian at best, and while marriage seems to be a joke these days, I have fortunately seen lifetime commitments that work. Why? Because the people involved are COMMITTED, even if it means giving up some things. No two people are really going to fit perfectly together, and while some are closer than others, everyone has to put effort in to make it work: it's not so much give-and-take as each person focusing on constantly giving. Changes will happen, but if each is truly giving, then they'll be willing to give up parts of themselves that are necessary to facilitate these changes.

These concepts are not rocket science so much as just fighting for simple selflessness. They can be applied to other relationships as well, even peacemaking between nations, if you will...

Arranged marriages often work because the people going into it know that work will be required, and don't necessarily assume their feelings will carry them. If only more Westerners who marry "for love" would realize the same thing...
Nick George
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Joined: Apr 04, 2004
Posts: 815
Originally posted by kayal cox:

but since I just couldn't find anybody to fall in love with, I did have an arranged marriage.


see, that's just painful for my ears (or eyes, I suppose).


I've heard it takes forever to grow a woman from the ground
kayal cox
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Joined: Aug 19, 2004
Posts: 376
Nick: see, that's just painful for my ears (or eyes, I suppose).


But why??? I am very happy now, my life is great, and I have an excellent relationship with my husband, his siblings.. My parents and his parents get along very well.

How is this any different from finding someone through Yahoo personals? or having a blind date arranged by a friend? I am sure it is anyday better than "Married by America"

I am not saying arranged marriage is better than love marriage. I am just saying its another way of doing things

And like Stephen said, we got into this relationship knowing that some effort would be involved from either side to make it work. And it does. Not just for me, but for numerous people around me.
Kishore Dandu
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Joined: Jul 10, 2001
Posts: 1934
Originally posted by Nick George:


see, that's just painful for my ears (or eyes, I suppose).


People having sex with bunch of unknowns(who they come to know through internet dating) and then marrying the best out of them also looks painful for my eyes aswell


Kishore
SCJP, blog
Dave Lenton
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Joined: Jan 20, 2005
Posts: 1241
Originally posted by Stephen Huey:
And here's where I differ.

Fair enough. It would be a boring world (and forum) if we all agreed on everything

I'm pretty certain that allowing such strong physical intimacy before marriage introduces some variables that might make it much HARDER to tell if you truly love the person (instead of basing a lot of your decision just on how you feel when you're enjoying that person physically). It's true that when dating, people often just try to put their best face forward, so there might be a lot you don't know. This is where putting a considerable deal of time and energy into getting to know them pays off.


I totally agree that people need to spend a lot of time and energy getting to know each other before getting married. The best chance of success for a marriage, IMHO, comes in part from a couple knowing each other well before hand. A factor in this is knowing the more intimate side to a person's nature.

I also agree that it would be bad if people based their decision to marry upon "how you feel when you're enjoying that person physically" is not a good thing - this would be basing the marriage decision on just a small part of a relationship.... but I doubt this is a common thing. How many people base their decision to marry just upon sex?

If a couple really spend time to get to know each other, then a strong physical intimacy can be another part of that getting to know each other process. I would certainly agree that people should wait until they are in a stable, reasonably long term and loving relationship before becoming this intimate, but once they are in such a relationship I see no advantage in waiting until marriage before doing so.


The so-called Christian model you see in the US is often pseudo-Christian at best, and while marriage seems to be a joke these days, I have fortunately seen lifetime commitments that work. Why? Because the people involved are COMMITTED, even if it means giving up some things. No two people are really going to fit perfectly together, and while some are closer than others, everyone has to put effort in to make it work: it's not so much give-and-take as each person focusing on constantly giving. Changes will happen, but if each is truly giving, then they'll be willing to give up parts of themselves that are necessary to facilitate these changes.

These concepts are not rocket science so much as just fighting for simple selflessness. They can be applied to other relationships as well, even peacemaking between nations, if you will...


It is a good thing when people are willing to work towards making a relationship last. Any long term relationship will have its difficulties from time to time, and mostly its worth people being committed to solving then. Unfortunately sometimes this doesn't work. Sometimes people have grown so far apart that they can no longer remain happy while in a relationship together. In these cases, maybe it is better for them to move on end their marriage. Certainly every effort should be made to see if these problems can be worked out, but sometimes they can't.


Arranged marriages often work because the people going into it know that work will be required, and don't necessarily assume their feelings will carry them. If only more Westerners who marry "for love" would realize the same thing...


It depends what is meant by "work". Its great if a couple stay together because they are happy together, or have worked at their relationship to make it work well, but its not so great if people stay married just because of social pressure to do so. While these marriages may technically be described as "working" because the couple is still married, this may not necessarily be a good thing if one or both of the parties are unhappy because of it.

Basically people should know each other well before getting married and work hard at making marriages work, but at the same time they should not remain in that marriage once it becomes clear that it cannot continue without one or both of the couple being unhappy in the long term.


There will be glitches in my transition from being a saloon bar sage to a world statesman. - Tony Banks
R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Dave Lenton:
While these marriages may technically be described as "working" because the couple is still married, this may not necessarily be a good thing if one or both of the parties are unhappy because of it.


I might be wrong but in the society where divorce is seen as taboo, children grow up[or should I say 'they are designed'] in such a way that, for them marriage is a life term commitment. Parents will give their example, their gramdparents example, their uncle, cousin, etc example for successful marriage.

The child when is ready for marriage, let it be love or arranged, for him/her marriage is a door that opens only in one direction.

For outsider, a thing which could be a reason enough for divorce, here it might be just another adjustment in life[or if you like, call it sacrifice] to live together, because they can never think of divorce. They will find happiness in another thing.

I still dont know whether high divorce rate is good or bad for a society. My personal opinion is that divorcee should not be forbidden by society.


"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
Helen Thomas
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Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
Originally posted by Dave Lenton:


But both involve a long term service agreement that one or other of the parties would probably like to get out of at some point


... and neither come with a sensible set of logical instructions either


Hear!

And along comes this Linux guy who needs just a little space in da house, will be no trouble at all and promises to pile presents one on top of t'other.

This situation must be universal ! Arranged marriages or not.
[ February 02, 2005: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]

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Stephen Huey
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Joined: Jul 15, 2003
Posts: 618
Originally posted by R K Singh:

I might be wrong but in the society where divorce is seen as taboo, children grow up[or should I say 'they are designed'] in such a way that, for them marriage is a life term commitment. Parents will give their example, their gramdparents example, their uncle, cousin, etc example for successful marriage.



Hear, hear. Too often examples of relationships in American come from reality TV shows and Desperate Housewives and such. For decades divorce has been paraded on televisions in living rooms and we are surprised that so many Americans quickly think of it as an option?
[ February 02, 2005: Message edited by: Stephen Huey ]
Kishore Dandu
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Joined: Jul 10, 2001
Posts: 1934
Originally posted by Stephen Huey:



Hear, hear. Too often examples of relationships in American come from reality TV shows and Desperate Housewives and such. For decades divorce has been paraded on televisions in living rooms and we are surprised that so many Americans quickly think of it as an option?

[ February 02, 2005: Message edited by: Stephen Huey ]


Desparate housewives is almost reality in US, because the general american mind is bitchy because of the culture and media.
Helen Thomas
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Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
Desperate Housewives is a good show. It's not just about marriage, it's also about personal loss, friendships, good neighbours and bad to pure evil neighbours - kind of Sex in the City in Suburbia.
And it's on tonight. Thanks for the reminder.
Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
Maximum City by Suketu Mehta--- Desparate housewives are everywhere


MH
Helen Thomas
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Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
Originally posted by Arjun Shastry:
Maximum City by Suketu Mehta--- Desparate housewives are everywhere


Arjun, I think you mentioned this book in another thread. I must look it up.
Nick George
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Joined: Apr 04, 2004
Posts: 815
Originally posted by kayal cox:


How is this any different from finding someone through Yahoo personals?



That's even more painful.
Tina Desai
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 365
Is it? What pains me more than that is the 70-80 year olds in the big supermarkets and post offices with their rectangular bends in backs.... Or the 15 year old single mums, who haven't thenselves yet forgotten about playing!

I feel Indian arranged marriages cannot be viewed as 'isolated, single' things.
Typically the life of an Indian person is like this -
The person grows up in a family. Probably he has lived under the same roof with parents and grandparents. The parents pay for everything - including education - till the child graduates (atleast!). So this is till we are 22 years of age - atleast(if there are further ambitions/post graduation etc, the parents keep on doing everything for the son/daughter). Then gets married.. had children and later looks after his parents for the rest of their lives.

In India, education and marriage of a kid are considered to be the parents responsibilities.
I feel those young people who hate arranged marriages very very much, and finds the foreign ways more, should first consider doing his/her education on his/her own. Fair enough??

Also I would like to add something about love marriages in India. What it means really is you choosing the person on your own. That's it. The way to take this ahead is - the parents meet, parents meet the boy/girl, regular 'discussion' as they take place during an arranged marriage take place - like the girls parent asks for the 'expectations'(read 'dowery' if they need any), 'where and how' they want the marriage, how big etc all these things.
The only relieving part is both sides of parents know that the children have chosen their life partners and they might be more flexible to make things work out for the children.

The people who have love marriages also live like the people who undergo arranged marriages once the marriage is over! The girl comes and lives with her husband and in-laws together. They have to follow all the other cultural rituals in the rest of the life.. which also means the two families having to come together for n number of occasions.

In short, many things are interchanged. So cutting arrnaged marriages out of our culture is as difficult as introducing it in yours.

Regards,
Tina


Alongwith being a good coder, try to be a good professional as well!
Sonny Gill
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Joined: Feb 02, 2002
Posts: 1211

Originally posted by Tina Desai:
[QB
I feel those young people who hate arranged marriages very very much, and finds the foreign ways more, should first consider doing his/her education on his/her own. Fair enough??
[/QB]


Are you saying that as long as somebody pays for her children's education, it is fair for her to hate arranged marriages?




Also I would like to add something about love marriages in India. What it means really is you choosing the person on your own. That's it. The way to take this ahead is - the parents meet, parents meet the boy/girl, regular 'discussion' as they take place during an arranged marriage take place - like the girls parent asks for the 'expectations'(read 'dowery' if they need any), 'where and how' they want the marriage, how big etc all these things.


This should not stop us from hoping for a change for better. or Are you implying that it is ok to ask for dowry, or for the groom's parents to dictate where and how they want the marriage, and how much money has to be spent on it?
Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
{
I feel those young people who hate arranged marriages very very much, and finds the foreign ways more, should first consider doing his/her education on his/her own. Fair enough??
}
Indian economic model was/is not flexible enough so that person can earn and learn at the same time.Initially it was command economy where much stress was given on rote learning and your GPA to get a job rather than real experience.Even today,you will see many companies and Govt organizations reject resumes if you are not from "good" school and with "good" GPA.Getting minted out from such "good" schools means descent money and full time study.So its not possible to eran and learn at the same time.By the way,how many Indian girls will choose a partner who goes to night school to complete the study and runs a garage during day?
R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Sonny Gill:
This should not stop us from hoping for a change for better.

Statement is arguable

for the groom's parents to dictate where and how they want the marriage, and how much money has to be spent on it?
Whats wrong in it ??
One has to dictate decide where and how marriage should take place, and mind it, its HIS money so he has a right to decide where to spent it.

Tina is right... if you want to adopt a model which suits you then adopt it properly. Pay your college fee, live independantly after 16 yrs of age, become independent from your family, pay your medical bills, find a mate and marry. Believe me parents wont object at all because from last 8 yrs you are coming only on sundays to meet them and he has saved enough(by not paying your huge college fees) to live independently too. These tips are for nucleus family.

If one belongs to join family(most of the time it means there is some kind of family business), start your own business/job, leave the family, find a mate and marry.
See.. nothing wrong in it at all.

Or have a love marriage as arrange marriage.. let both parents decide when, how and how much money should be spent.
Dave Lenton
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Joined: Jan 20, 2005
Posts: 1241
Originally posted by Tina Desai:
In India, education and marriage of a kid are considered to be the parents responsibilities.
I feel those young people who hate arranged marriages very very much, and finds the foreign ways more, should first consider doing his/her education on his/her own. Fair enough??


While I totally agree that parents have a responsibility to ensure that their children get a good education, I fail to see why it is also a responsibility of theirs to choose who their child spends the rest of their life with. Certainly parents will wish for their child to be with someone suitable, but at the point when their offspring gets married he/she will be an adult. Surely an adult can, and has the right to, choose the person they will be living with? Its almost as if the parents are saying, in your scenario, "We paid for your education, so now you have a debt to us and that debt means that you must spend the rest of your life living with the person we choose.". It just seems a little strange to me that a supposed adult will have such an important choice taken away from them just because their parents fulfilled their responsibility to educate. On the other hand, part of this strangeness could well just be cultural differences - it may be hard for me, in one culture, to understand another culture that I have very little experience of.
[ February 08, 2005: Message edited by: Dave Lenton ]
Nick George
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Joined: Apr 04, 2004
Posts: 815
It just all seems so sterile to me. What everyone is talking about with dumping beer and having sex is the negative end of the passion spectrum. To me, the the positive end of that spectrum is more or less what is good in life.
Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
Although country is diverse,many people/parents(of all religions) have their pseudo egos about their culture,cast,religion etc. That ego does not allow their children to get married to somebody "outside" their cast/religion.Its not that in every house parents force,but they expect their children especially daughters to get married by arranged marriage.I know one Sikh family where parents were ready for their son to get married to anybody but for their two daughters,they wanted grooms ONLY from Sikh religion. .
With situation changing and people migrting inside/outside country,it has become difficult now a days to find partner even by arranged marriage.
Mehul Sanghvi
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Joined: Feb 04, 2002
Posts: 134
Hi,

In India due to various reasons there are many joint families (even today) and even if joint families are breaking up they still are in close contact with parents. Hence a bride is not just married to the groom but the family and she has to bring change in the way she does a lot of things and the way she lives. And people believe that instead of complete family changing its stlye of doing things it would be rather easier for the bride to change hers.

I think the funda of getting daughters married in the same caste/sub-caste is due to the fact that the parents of the bride dosent want their child to have to go through a complete transformation in the way she lives. Which at times could happen when both the castes are completely different.

There definitely is going to be a lot of transformation which is going to happen even when a girl is married in the same caste but the level is going to be much lower.

Rgds,
Mehul.
Mark Spritzler
ranger
Sheriff

Joined: Feb 05, 2001
Posts: 17249
    
    6

Originally posted by Damanjit Kaur:
In India, arranged marriages are seen as successful but most of the time there are compromises and sacrifices on one partner's side and they continue with that till the end because divorces are frowned upon in our society. Marriages are considered as sacred ties in our society. whether that be love or arranged. So whenever there is some conflict between couples, its usually sorted out by relatives or friends intervention. But in love marriages, relatives usually want the couple to split up.
According to me love means a mutual understanding and willingness on both partner's side to cooperate with each other which I feel one can find in Love marriages because one gets enough time to understand each other.


Just out of curiosity,

What is the rate of adultery in arranged marriages? I just wonder if they don't ever get to love, if they stray, but still stay married.

Personally I feel I have a pre-arranged marriage, arranged by god.

Mark


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Damanjit Kaur
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Joined: Oct 18, 2004
Posts: 346
What is the rate of adultery in arranged marriages? I just wonder if they don't ever get to love, if they stray, but still stay married.


Don't know how much.

Seen quite a few like that. It happens in a very hush hush way that other partner never comes to know of that.

You are lucky to have your partner arranged by God.
R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Damanjit Kaur:
Don't know how much.


Let us see around us ...

If I just consider my relatives, I will be having around 10-15 males as close relative and if I consider relatives who are in touch then number of males will go around 60-75.

I know only one person who is having extra marital affairs ... and agony is that he choose to marry a girl of his choice.
Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
{
What is the rate of adultery in arranged marriages
}
I think it should not be much less/more than other parts of the world.As said by another poster,it happens secretely without knowing the partner(For more details: Maximum City by Suketu Mehta) as country has long tradition of obsession about secrecy.Many member of parliaments,politicians had/had extra marital affairs.But media generally does not print them.and leaders are elected by people.
R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Arjun Shastry:
As said by another poster,it happens secretely without knowing the partner


I always like such piece of statement.

Its something like, girl saying that boys have multiple affairs but girls dont have multiple affairs.
Manish Hatwalne
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Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Posts: 2578

How could have I missed such an interesting topic? My rambling�

I can�t understand - Why do you think that you need to find if a person is "good" or "bad" in 4-50 mins??? Isn't it possible that both are "good" but not compatible with each other? I think that's the most common thing...

I can�t understand - Why would relatives usually want the couple to split up in a love marriages??? If they want that, you shouldn't call them your relatives!!!
love marriage != rebel marriage

Let me add what I think about all this�

Kayal Cox is talking sense; it's an alternative system of getting married that seems perfectly valid. And any relationship needs to be nurtured, cared for; and communication is of utmost importance; "lived happily ever after" is a myth. One should never stop working on relationships. And in any relationship "I" has to take lower precedence than "we". I think many marriages fail because either of them, or both of them are lacking the understanding about their differences; and perhaps forget the good things and times they shared together. Many times it's a disillusion for either of them or both of them. Many reasons...

I think divorce rate would be higher in urban/metropolitan society (as well as in America) because here most people tend to value individuality and their independence more than the togetherness and "interdependence" of a relationship. Often personal goals become more important than shared goals; aspirations change, common perspective towards life is missing... People change & have low tolerance; they are unwilling to make adjustments to stay together (sacrifice is a stronger word, often suggesting resentment of the person using such word). I don't think divorce is such a taboo in urban India now, though painful, it happens! I have few friends and cousins (both male and female) who have been separated and some of them got married again, not such a big deal anymore. But yes, with kids this option is very painful and should be avoided.

Love marriages do have their own problems sometimes - often when people do not have insight about their own personality traits (which is quite common) and don�t know what is it that they are looking for in their spouse; these marriages could fail as well. Only because you chose the person on your own "out of love" does not necessarily mean that you can't go wrong! In fact, I have often observed that in such cases (esp. in teen love or young age love marriages) people often tend to behave/show what they are not just to please the person that they think they love so much; and once this illusion is cleared in its due course of time (by marriage or whatever), they just want to be themselves and then realize that they can't even make small adjustments for the person they once loved so much. We all make mistakes; and mistake of loving the wrong person (or interpreting some feeling as "love" incorrectly) is probably one of the most painful of them all!

The whole point is to find a person with whom you could be yourself, and still make him/her happy most of the time and vice versa. Kayal is right again, both the partners need to put in efforts to make a relationship work, but it's important to have a very high comfort level with each other.

Come to think of it, marriage probably is the only close/intimate personal relationship that we develop on our own as adults; rest of relations (mom, dad, sister, brother etc) are with us since childhood, so in a way we grow up learning about them and developing ourselves in such relations (son of someone, daughter of someone), they are in a way taken for granted.

Coming back to Indian arranged marriages, I guess in olden times people got married early, there were not so fiercely independent (I-my-mine), they were more compromising, due to early marriage their preferences and love nurtured together naturally. Guess it's a bit tough for our generation in India - we are highly independent, individualistic, with strong opinions & preferences developed by the time we consider marriage (late twenties for guys I believe), so it's all the more important for us to find a person who is inherently comfortable with our way of thinking (again, provided that you have a good insight about yourself) and vice versa. I think common interests/hobbies is a bit superficial matching, it's more important to understand how a person thinks/feels and then guess if you can be compatible.

Also, the concept of an arranged marriage is not as "illogical" and "weird" as it sounds to some non-Indian residents. Generally in India (exception are there), children are indeed close to their parents and family ties are much stronger (that's why they are emotionally much more secure and stable). The family members do have some "sense of belonging", so unless Dad/Mom are totally cut-off from their kids' world (happening in places where children move away for education and jobs); or unless they are unwilling, parents are indeed in a very good position to *suggest* suitable bride/groom for their son/daughter. (I still think that the person who is getting married must take the decision, and he/she should take responsibility of his/her own decision) The prospective bride/groom also comes from a known family so her/his nature is more or less known, parents can make a good guess if that person could be the right spouse for their son/daughter, and hence it is not VERY weird when the actual bride-groom meet first time only for 40-50 mins and decide. Other meetings can take place "unofficially" as well! I had a very close friend coming from rather orthodox Muslim family, so after they decided to get married, he would often meet her by informing his parents that he'd be at my place and meet her somewhere (and she'd do the same); it's quite fun you see!

Again, an arranged marriage doesn't have to be an affair with both families involved and this "boy meeting a girl" and interview going on for 40-50 mins. I absolutely hate this idea of traditional "boy-girl meeting" that Arjun described, that would be an absolutely awkward situation for both of them (Hell; not even my parents had that sort of an arranged marriage more than 30 years ago).

I think it should be possible for two of them to meet after initial screening (education, age, and other XYZ criteria that both of them & families may have) and discuss their own personality traits (thinking patterns) and expectations. They both are aware of their family values and their expectations, so they can consider that part as well. Better still, they can communicate via mails/messengers/phone (always easy to discuss these things theoretically and asynchronously) and once they communicate enough (using whatever) they can meet personally and discuss other matters and decide if the want to take this further or not.

I also don't think that 40-50 mins are enough to find out if it's the right person, (though it might be more than sufficient to find if it�s the wrong person) but if you get some "matching frequencies�, at least you can decide to proceed further. But then, refusing becomes more and more difficult after each meeting. That's why I prefer "communicate before meeting" in an arranged marriage. You've got to know the person....

Ideally, I'd also love to have a "love marriage", but I am not a silly teenager anymore who'd fall in love at first sight with the next pretty thing in skirt. Like Kayal, I have not found a person with whom I could fall in love (I was disgusted by the frivolous nature, or lack of depth of few girls who seemed interesting & pretty initially, and I have never been interested in casual flings!). So I don't think an arranged marriage is such a bad option. Of course, in my case I'd be interacting directly with the girl, and it would take me at least few months before I can decide. So f it's not "love marriage", it could be "marriage love�!!!

So Arjun - take some time to figure out what you really are, and what you're really looking for in this relationship (write it down, seriously it helps! Just keep it to yourself instead of taking it to the restaurant and forcing poor girl(s) for many rounds of interviews ), and the only question you should ask your prospective girl could be her email ID/phone no, so you can communicate further!!!

Good luck!!!

- Manish
Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
Thanks.Good post.Makes sense
{and the only question you should ask your prospective girl could be her email ID/phone no
}
Generally this might not happen.Girl's parents won't allow this offline communication .I have tried this before,but girls parents insist that "interviews" or communications MUST happen just few feets away from them.
Few months back,I was asked to meet girl at some cafe at 8:30 PM.After 25-30 minutes,two women arrived in cafe.Girl looked shocked.(or she showed that way).One woman was her mom and another some close relative.She introduced them."W'll sit there and won't disturb you" her mom pointed at some another table.

[ February 09, 2005: Message edited by: Arjun Shastry ]
[ February 10, 2005: Message edited by: Arjun Shastry ]
Sonny Gill
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Joined: Feb 02, 2002
Posts: 1211

Originally posted by R K Singh:


for the groom's parents to dictate where and how they want the marriage, and how much money has to be spent on it?
Whats wrong in it ??
One has to dictate decide where and how marriage should take place, and mind it, its HIS money so he has a right to decide where to spent it.

Tina is right... if you want to adopt a model which suits you then adopt it properly. Pay your college fee, live independantly after 16 yrs of age,
...
See.. nothing wrong in it at all.




Ok, the original statement indicated that the groom's parents tell the bride's parents how much to spend etc. etc., I think that is wrong, definately.

And what I am arguing is that the son/daughter shouldnt be made to give up the right to choose their partner because the parents paid for the education etc. Why cant the son/daughter decide to marry someone of their choice, and pay for their children's education etc. like their parents did for them?
But yeah, in case of parents who spend all their money on the kids' education, the equation changes a lot, I didnt consider that.

Just because you marry by your choice doesnt mean that you wont look after your parents, and not all people in arranged marriages look after their parents well. In the end, it comes down to how much responsibility you feel towards your parents, whether you are had a love marriage or an arranged one.


What is the rate of adultery in arranged marriages? I just wonder if they don't ever get to love, if they stray, but still stay married.
Mark


This is complex, and I am only going to speak for guys (that I know are in arranged marriages). I know a few who wont consider extra marital sex because of the responsibility they feel towards their children and family, including parents. But many have/will have affairs as long as they are sure they wont get caught and if given a chance. And I bet you will have many more married men having paid sex, if only it were legal and safe to get it.

A surprisingly (for me) large number of young women believe in having no premarital sex, and in saving themselves for their husband kinda thing, and I suppose they expect the same from their future husbands. I think I probabely know two guys who havent had sex before marriage, and for one of those that was because of a lack of opportunity!

No hard figures, and just my personal observation.
R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Sonny Gill:
Ok, the original statement indicated that the groom's parents tell the bride's parents how much to spend etc. etc., I think that is wrong, definately.


Opss.. you got me wrong.
What I am saying that its their(groom's and as well as bride's parents) money so let then decide how they want to spend.
I am no where suggesting that someone's parents are suggesting something to other's parents.


And what I am arguing is that the son/daughter shouldnt be made to give up the right to choose their partner because the parents paid for the education etc.
I think I miss the point to state, its not because they have paid for education they have right to choose their partner. Its about following a model. In other model, their is less emotional bond as child grow ups.

Just few days back here people were discussing was a man gay if he is living with his parents after 20s or 30s.

Manish are you gay ??


Why cant the son/daughter decide to marry someone of their choice, and pay for their children's education etc.
As I said, its about emotional bonding, not about paying the education fees, it was just a example of showing the social model works in India.
The point is that parents feel that its their right to interfere take care of their son's life, even after marriage.
Are they wrong ??
I dont know... but then after marriage when your wife is pregnant, dont expect either your or her mother to come with you 3 months before the delivery and till 6 months after the delivery to take care of your wife and new born baby.


In the end, it comes down to how much responsibility you feel towards your parents, whether you are had a love marriage or an arranged one.
Very much true.

But the point is that we very much want to do love marriage but when it come to our sisters, we cant allow her to have premarital sex or to test her husband before marriage or let her stay out for night to find her soul/bed mate. right ??

But many have/will have affairs as long as they are sure they wont get caught and if given a chance. And I bet you will have many more married men having paid sex, if only it were legal and safe to get it.
I know some who had paid sex before marriage, after marriage still I have to find in my group.
I am very much happy if they may expect same from their wives also.


A surprisingly (for me) large number of young women believe in having no premarital sex,
Even I surprise, till that young woman is not my sister
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8904

Nice thread.


Groovy
John Mallavalli
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Joined: Apr 24, 2002
Posts: 46
This thread really rocks!!


Do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do !!<br /> <br />SCJP & SCWCD 1.4
Leena Diwan
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Joined: Jun 18, 2001
Posts: 351
Originally posted by Dave Lenton:


While I totally agree that parents have a responsibility to ensure that their children get a good education, I fail to see why it is also a responsibility of theirs to choose who their child spends the rest of their life with. Certainly parents will wish for their child to be with someone suitable, but at the point when their offspring gets married he/she will be an adult. Surely an adult can, and has the right to, choose the person they will be living with? Its almost as if the parents are saying, in your scenario, "We paid for your education, so now you have a debt to us and that debt means that you must spend the rest of your life living with the person we choose.". It just seems a little strange to me that a supposed adult will have such an important choice taken away from them just because their parents fulfilled their responsibility to educate. On the other hand, part of this strangeness could well just be cultural differences - it may be hard for me, in one culture, to understand another culture that I have very little experience of.

[ February 08, 2005: Message edited by: Dave Lenton ]


No. It does not happen this way.

Parents are involved in a decision process. But they do not force whom you should marry.

Not too difficult for me to explain really. which parent will want a bad person in his/her child't life?

Though at ANY given moment there are ALL sorts of people existing in a country, as they DO in any other country, there might be a very few exceptions.
But parents don't marry off their children till the child also agrees it a good match and he/she is interested.

One question - if due to the kind of society, you let your parents spend on you till you are 22(might be 24), and due to the same soceity, they HAVE to (not interested in) be involved in your marriage process, what would you do?
Mind well, Im asking you a question of a soceity where if you tell your parents to back off from your marital discussions, you are insulting them.

And I feel, what you wrote in the end is very right. So I feel its true that we cannot view arranged marriages in an isolated way. Before marriage and after marriage, we do not live like you do. Its difficult to explain what the parents go through. They might be hating it actually. But they HAVE to.

Regards,
Leena
[ February 12, 2005: Message edited by: Leena Diwan ]

[SCJP2, SCWCD1.3, SCBCD]
Leena Diwan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 18, 2001
Posts: 351
Originally posted by Arjun Shastry:
{
I feel those young people who hate arranged marriages very very much, and finds the foreign ways more, should first consider doing his/her education on his/her own. Fair enough??
}
Indian economic model was/is not flexible enough so that person can earn and learn at the same time.Initially it was command economy where much stress was given on rote learning and your GPA to get a job rather than real experience.Even today,you will see many companies and Govt organizations reject resumes if you are not from "good" school and with "good" GPA.Getting minted out from such "good" schools means descent money and full time study.So its not possible to eran and learn at the same time.By the way,how many Indian girls will choose a partner who goes to night school to complete the study and runs a garage during day?


None!!
You proved a point though. Arranged marriages can't be viewed in an isolated way.
To get a partner (love or arranged) one needs good education in India. Which you can't get on your own. So the parents pay. But its fine, we don't hate it. Everyone's parent is doing that, isn't it?
And the parents are not cribbing either. Its their responsibility.

The system hurts when the time comes to get married! I don't think we are being fair towards our parents. They don't ask us back what they did for us. They just go on doing their next responsibility - marrying the kid off.
[ February 12, 2005: Message edited by: Leena Diwan ]
Varun Khanna
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Joined: May 30, 2002
Posts: 1400
Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
Nice thread.


I agree


- Varun
Tina Desai
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 365
Originally posted by Sonny Gill:

Are you saying that as long as somebody pays for her children's education, it is fair for her to hate arranged marriages?

This should not stop us from hoping for a change for better. or Are you implying that it is ok to ask for dowry, or for the groom's parents to dictate where and how they want the marriage, and how much money has to be spent on it?


Replying in your style really..
Did I say that?
Did I say that dowery is OK?
Are you implying that Im against change?

Please don't read what is not written!!
Just because there is a proof of a theorm does not mean that the corollary is also true. So dont negate statements and check.
 
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subject: Indian arranged marriages
 
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