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Are we really such a mystery?

Thomas Paul
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Originally posted by Helen Thomas:
A women professor walked out. She said if she had stayed she would either have blacked out or vomited.
Well, yes, we all know how delicate women are and how they must be protected from anything that upsets them. Hopefully her husband calmed her down and asked her doctor to increase her prozac.


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Helen Thomas
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I think there should be an experiment where Summers, the Harvard President would have to dress up and live in society as a woman for a couple of years and see what it's like to be discriminated against.

For instance when men communicate they don't mean what they say.
It's more ape-meets-ape type of communication.
Men allow themselves to show anger but not fear,hurt,sadness.
Conversely, women suppress anger but are allowed to show other vulnerable emotions.

An experiment in Wales had a class of 8 year olds split into two groups - red ahirts and yellow shirts.
The red shirts were allowed all treats like break times while the yellow shirts had to stay in and do maths. The red shirts were also allowed to call the yellow shirts names. Basically the red shirts were allowed to discriminate against the yellows.
By the end of the day the yellows were reduced to tears and the experiment was called off because there was evidence of severe psychological damage.


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Angela Poynton
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My point is no two people of "The other Gender" think the same way, just like your gender. We are individuals and I'm getting really tired of the stereotyping I'm seeing more and more ... not just one here but just about everywhere.
I should have titled this thread differently I think. "Is The opposite sex such a mystery?" since it seems women are just as guilty of generalising and stereotyping.


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Ben Souther
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Heh.. Be careful. Moving mountains can generate quite a backache. ;-)


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Marc Peabody
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Originally posted by Helen Thomas:

For instance when men communicate they don't mean what they say.


On the contrary, we mean EXACTLY what we say (which is more apelike IMO). We're not smart enough to add meaning to our words beyond the literal interpretation of the words themselves. And we're horrible with body language.


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Marc Peabody
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Originally posted by Angela Poynton:
I should have titled this thread differently I think. "Is The opposite sex such a mystery?" since it seems women are just as guilty of generalising and stereotyping.


Stereotyping genders is not a sin. Stereotypes alleviate some of the mystery. That was the whole point of the Mars/Venus book.

Individuality? Sure, I'm an individual, but I'm still an instance of the Male class and it came with a crapload of methods that I didn't override.
Bacon
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Posts: 305
I'm with Marc on this one.

I've learned to translate some things, however, I'm stll left in the dark quite often.

Her: I don't know what to make for dinner.
Translation: I want to go out to dinner.

Him: I want to go out to dinner.
Translation: I want to go out to dinner.

Her: Fine.
Translation: NOT fine.

Her: Whatever.
Translation: My way or the highway.
Steven Bell
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Posts: 1071
I don't see why everybody got all worked up over Dr. Summers comments. Men and women are different (isn't that really why this thread is here?). Men are generally better than women at math and mental 3D object rotations. Women are generally better at multi-tasking and attention-to-detail than men. This does not exclude women from doing higher math, nor does it exlude men from multi-tasking. Acknowledging basic differences isn't a bad thing.

Personally I've never understood the 'you should have a docterate in math to program' mentality. There are places where math is key, but the large majoriy of apps use basic algebra at most. I would think a womans ability to notice details and juggle more things would give them just as much ability, if not more, than a man a programming.
Steven Bell
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As for communication here is one I always run into with my wife:

(already decided to go out to eat)
Me: Where do you want to go?
Her: I don't care.

Me: Outback?
Her: No.

Me: Olive Garden?
Her: No.

Me: Red Robin?
Her: No.

Me: The Keg?
Her: No.

Me: Applebee's?
Her: No.

Me: Well, where do you want to go?
Her: Let's go to Red Lobster, their having X special right now.

In my mind: Why didn't you just say so rather than make me guess???

The other way goes like this.

Her: Where do you want to go?
Me: I don't care.

Her: How about X.
Me: Sure.
Thomas Paul
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Just to explain poor Dr. Summers... he said that the scarcity of female scientists at elite universities may stem from �innate� differences between the sexes. He didn't say that women were bad at science. He didn't say that men were smarter than women. He suggested that this might be an area worth looking into to help us understand why there are so few women scientists at our elite universities. Instead of simply accusing everyone of sexism, perhaps there are innate differences between men and women.

From an article about the speech:
But Lee Professor of Economics Claudia Goldin, whose own research has examined the progress of women in academia and professional life, said she �was pretty flummoxed� by the negative response to Summers� speech, which�in her view�displayed �utter brilliance.�

[ February 07, 2005: Message edited by: Thomas Paul ]
Bacon
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Originally posted by Steven Bell:
...Personally I've never understood the 'you should have a docterate in math to program' mentality.


Programming is not about math, it's about problem solving. A good auto mechanic has the same basic mental skills that a good programmer does.

I've worked with some top-rate female programmers. There's no gender bias that I can see. The ones I have worked with are a bit more detail oriented and attuned to proper procedure (things I've never had much use for) than a lot of the male programmers I've worked with. The cavalier, "give it a shot and see what happens" attitude seems more common in men.

Originally posted by Steven Bell:
Me: Where do you want to go?
Her: I don't care...


Yeah... uh... yeah... been there dude. You'll get used to it.
Warren Dew
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Thomas Paul:

Just to explain poor Dr. Summers...

It's also to be noted that he was asked to come up with a "controversial topic" to speak about at the luncheon.

I think, being a man, he foolishly took that request literally, rather than reading between the words and realizing it really meant he was to come up with a "topic that is controversial enough to be interesting, while not so controversial as to be disturbing".
Thomas Paul
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Originally posted by Warren Dew:
I think, being a man, he foolishly took that request literally, rather than reading between the words and realizing it really meant he was to come up with a "topic that is controversial enough to be interesting, while not so controversial as to be disturbing".


Yes, I am sure they wanted something controversial like, "How George W. Bush is destroying the American education system." That would have made everyone from Harvard and MIT very happy and we wouldn't have had any swooning female professors collapsing in the aisles.
Madhav Lakkapragada
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Originally posted by Ray Marsh:

I've learned to translate some things, however, I'm stll left in the dark quite often.

Her: I don't know what to make for dinner.
Translation: I want to go out to dinner.

Him: I want to go out to dinner.
Translation: I want to go out to dinner.

Her: Fine.
Translation: NOT fine.

Her: Whatever.
Translation: My way or the highway.


Yup, some of those translations make sense to me too. I have also been there. Glad to know I am not the only one that has difficulty.
In our house it goes this way....

Her: I don't know what to make for dinner.
Him: That's ok, I will make something.
Her: What do you want to make?
Him: Maybe pasta.
Her: ummm.....I don't like that. You make it < blah blah blah... some reason >
Him: Ok, what about tortias?
Her: There's nothing to eat with tortias.
Him: Then suggest something....
Her: I don't know....
Him: Do you want to go (or get something from) outside?
Her: If you want to...

Finally, (it takes about 30 minutes [unnecessary in my mind; but recorded in her mind] discussion) we end up going out somewhere - Pizza or Chinese or Italian or Greek or Indian.

Bottomline, 'He' proposed to go out for dinner.

- m
[ February 07, 2005: Message edited by: Madhav Lakkapragada ]

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RM: Example: Woman comes home with a new hair cut, man doesn't notice. He's now in deep poo!

I really don't care if my husband (or anybody else for that matter) notices my new haircut or not.


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Ellen Zhao
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I would be nervous if others notice my haircut or things like that. Better leave me unnoticed.
Steven Bell
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Posts: 1071
What a woman says.
(And what she really means)

It's not you, it's me.
(It's you.)

Do you think I need to lose 10 pounds?
(I want you to prove that you love me by lying and saying that I don't need to lose 10 pounds when I actually do. That's despite the fact that I flipped out last week and yelled at you for a solid hour about how relationships are built on honesty.)

Tell me the truth, do you think she's prettier than me?
(Despite the fact that I'm asking you to compare me to a super model you must lie and say I am more attractive than her or you hate me and want me to die.)

I'll be ready in a minute.
(I'm ready, but I'm going to make you wait because I know you will.)

I don't want to take a chance on ruining our friendship by going out.
(You physically repulse and disgust me. I would rather become a nun than have sex with you.)

and just to be fair.

What a man says.
(And what he really means)

Take a break, honey, you're working too hard.
(I can't hear the game over the vacuum cleaner.)

That's interesting, dear.
(Are you still talking?)

I'm hungry.
(I'm hungry.)

Yes, that one's nice.
(Why do you ask when you aren't going to listen anyway?)

You look terrific.
(Oh, God, please don't try on one more outfit. I'm starving.)

Can I call you sometime?
(I'd eventually like to have sex with you.)

Can I take you out to dinner?
(I'd eventually like to have sex with you.)

Let me get your door.
(I'd eventually like to have sex with you.)

You look nice tonight.
(I'd eventually like to have sex with you.) //Are we noticeing a pattern yet?

What's wrong?
(What meaningless self-inflicted psychological trauma are you going through now?)

Ok, that's enough for now.
John Dunn
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The "Truth" Bell has rung. (that post was da** funny!)


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Thomas Paul
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R K Singh
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Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:
I really don't care if my husband (or anybody else for that matter) notices my new haircut or not.


who told you and Ellen that you are from Venus..


"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
Angela Poynton
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**BANGS HEAD AGAINST DESK AND GIVES UP**
[ February 08, 2005: Message edited by: Angela Poynton ]
Bacon
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Posts: 305
Originally posted by Angela Poynton:
**BANGS HEAD AGAINST DESK AND GIVES UP**


Take it easy Angela. Girls are great and strangly not as icky as they were 35 years ago.
R K Singh
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Originally posted by Ray Marsh:
Take it easy Angela. Girls are great and strangly not as icky as they were 35 years ago.


Angela also saying the same....
Ben Souther
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Joined: Dec 11, 2004
Posts: 13410

Originally posted by Angela Poynton:
**BANGS HEAD AGAINST DESK AND GIVES UP**

[ February 08, 2005: Message edited by: Angela Poynton ]


Warned ya...
Helen Thomas
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Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
quotes :

To the world you are just one person but to one person you could mean the world

reminded of this by a program Facing the Music where a woman overcomes her lack of confidence by stages and finally is able to tell/sings to her man with very obvious meaning and feeling Aretha Franklin's :

Lookin out on the morning rain
(Ah - ooo)
I used to feel so uninspired
(Ah - ooo)
And when I knew I had to face another day
(Ah - ooo)
Lord it made me feel so tired
Before the day I met you
Life was so unkind
But your love the key to my piece of mind

Cause you make me feel
You make me feel
You make me feel
Like a natural woman (woman)

When my soul was in the lost and found
You came along to claim it
I didn?t know just what was wrong with me
Till your kiss helped me name it
Now I?m no longer doubtful
Of what I?m livin? for
And if I make you happy
I don?t need to do more

Cause you make me feel
You make me feel
You make me feel
You make me feel like a natural woman (woman)

Oh baby what you done to me!
(What you done to me!)
You make me feel so good inside
(Good inside)
And I just wanna be
(Wanna be)
Close to you
You make me feel so alive

You make me feel
You make me feel
You make me feel like a natural woman (woman)

You make me feel (hey)
You make me feel
You make me feel like a natural woman (woman)
FADES -
You make me feel (hey)
You make me feel...


don't remember this one by a South American poet exactly but it goes something like this

Men are horrible and wanting
God made me ugly to keep men away


Oops wrong thread - meant for the other one..

Anyway, the poet is Federico Garc�a Lorca and the badly quoted line is from
the folk tragedy La Casa de Bernarda Alba.

"La casa de Bernarda Alba is starker: deliberately prosaic, more readily interpretable as social criticism (i.e. of the pressures of convention, the imprisoning effect of mourning customs, the frustration of female sexuality by the need to wait for an acceptable match), but it is so dominated by the title character - who tyrannizes her five daughters - that it emerges as the study of a unique individual rather than a typical woman. Each tragedy has one outstanding female role, those of Yerma and Bernarda having been written for the great tragic actress Margarita Xirgu."


Thus I do declare that women ARE a mystery.
[ February 10, 2005: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]
Helen Thomas
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Posts: 1759
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Just to explain poor Dr. Summers... he said that the scarcity of female scientists at elite universities may stem from �innate� differences between the sexes. He didn't say that women were bad at science. He didn't say that men were smarter than women. He suggested that this might be an area worth looking into to help us understand why there are so few women scientists at our elite universities. Instead of simply accusing everyone of sexism, perhaps there are innate differences between men and women.

From an article about the speech:


[ February 07, 2005: Message edited by: Thomas Paul ]


How writing probably evolved from innate differences.


Two women drawing water at the well, first woman says to the other woman :

I be sending the husband with the two bulls in exchange for the flock of sheep. Did you say you live past the bend in the river ?

Woman 2 : Yes. Tell you what. I be sending my husband to meet yours at the river crossing.

Woman 1. I guess we better draw that down in some of that clay there. Otherwise they'll just see it as another excuse to go drink some barley beer.
[ February 10, 2005: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]
Helen Thomas
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Posts: 1759
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Just to explain poor Dr. Summers... he said that the scarcity of female scientists at elite universities may stem from �innate� differences between the sexes. .... .. He suggested that this might be an area worth looking into to help us understand why there are so few women scientists at our elite universities. Instead of simply accusing everyone of sexism, perhaps there are innate differences between men and women.

From an article about the speech:




Learning needs to be approached from angles that go beyond sexuality. Areas that involve physical strength may have been dominated by men for e.g. engineering
Women do not lift weights at work only at play, so men may have been conditioned to think about safety, load bearing stress etc. for centuries.
Men who actually lift weights at work today probably don't think about those things anymore anyway, their supervisor does and that person could easily be a man or woman.

In serious learning there can be no room for sexuality.
[ February 11, 2005: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]
Madhav Lakkapragada
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A must read article here.

- m
Ben Souther
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Posts: 13410

Originally posted by Madhav Lakkapragada:
A must read article here.

- m


Have to wonder if that was really written by a woman.
Sounds like a monologue from "The Man Show".
[ February 11, 2005: Message edited by: Ben Souther ]
Warren Dew
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Helen Thomas:

Woman 1. I guess we better draw that down in some of that clay there. Otherwise they'll just see it as another excuse to go drink some barley beer.

Ah, finally, a woman who understands men!
Madhav Lakkapragada
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Posts: 5040
We are not the only one's discussing this topic.
If only we could ask for a grant from that research.


It's also spawned countless self-help books (think "Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus") and bland jokes about women being unable to read maps, or men never asking for directions.


- m
Arjun Shastry
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Originally posted by Madhav Lakkapragada:
[URL=http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/02/14/gender.brain/index.html]
- m

From the above article:
{
...Unfortunately it doesn't explain why some men leave the toilet seat up
}
Whats wrong with toilet seat up?


MH
Ben Souther
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Joined: Dec 11, 2004
Posts: 13410

Originally posted by Arjun Shastry:

...Unfortunately it doesn't explain why some men leave the toilet seat up


Or why women keep leaving it down. How inconsiderate.

 
I agree. Here's the link: http://aspose.com/file-tools
 
subject: Are we really such a mystery?