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Frameworks? Do I need one? want one?

Pat Farrell
Rancher

Joined: Aug 11, 2007
Posts: 4646
    
    5

Originally posted by Will Hartung:
But it seems to me that after you've endured that experience, you should have enough experience to make a sound decision to use one of the several dominant frameworks available. The time spent on that research and adoption will be minor, long term, to carving that wheel out of stone again.

In your case, you may well have already solved the problem. You've already got util functions, idioms, and tooling to make writing an application easier than using raw servlets. I can't advocate that anyone switch out a mature, working infrastructure for "something new". That's crazy.


Well, this is a new dot.com and I'm the VP of Engineering, so I can do anything I want. And its not crazy to explore to see if someone has done a better job than I did.

I'm a bit surprised at some of the missing answers. For example, we know Fred has a published book on Stripes, there is nothing close to that for my hand built framework. While its not important today, when I have to hire four other programmers, who are not as smart and talented as Bear, Fred and me, then having an accepted framework could be a win. -- if its not as clanky as Struts.

The very hard part is to tell in advance if the costs outweigh the benefits, and that is what engineering is all about.
Pat Farrell
Rancher

Joined: Aug 11, 2007
Posts: 4646
    
    5

I've been trying Stripes, and USP just delivered Fred's book. So wish me luck.
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

Originally posted by Pat Farrell:
I've been trying Stripes, and USP just delivered Fred's book. So wish me luck.


Best of luck, but with Stripes, you won't need much luck.


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margaret gillon
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 12, 2008
Posts: 318
    
    5

I am learning web applications by using books but when the books start showing CRUD programming a framework is always used. In Marty Hall's "More Servlets" he is using JSF of which Bear says
In my opinion, JSF is an abomination that should never have left the drawing board.
I need a stack that won't drive me crazy


Any examples of CRUD I can find on the Internet are always tied to a framework. I have worked my way through the Spring demo and managed to connect to my database okay but because I am learning I don't know what work the Spring is saving.

Earlier in this thread Bear said...
if you want simple, check out my Front Man "framework". It's just a front controller that takes care of command dispatching and stays out of your way for everything else.
But Bear also mentioned using Hibernate in the same thread where JSF was mentioned.

I am looking for a sample CRUD web application that does not use any framework. Then I would like to see a sample CRUD web application that uses a framework so I can see where the framework kicks in. (Maybe Bear's framework?)

Does anyone have links to a sample CRUD application with no framework? And links to a sample CRUD application with framework that could be compared to the no framework application?

Or is there a book that would show a no framework web application doing basic CRUD for a database?
[ December 10, 2008: Message edited by: margaret gillon ]
Stephanie Dutcheson
Greenhorn

Joined: Dec 07, 2008
Posts: 17
For me personally Struts2 tutorial from
www.onepd.com
is the best starting point.
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

Originally posted by Stephanie Dutcheson:
For me personally Struts2 tutorial from
www.onepd.com
is the best starting point.


2 pages worth of discussion and you decide to now point out a beginners tutorial to Struts2? Oh, and not just in this thread. I see you have pimped it in another thread as well, with little to no added value, I might add.
Ulf Dittmer
Marshal

Joined: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 41499
    
  53
Oh, and not just in this thread. I see you have pimped it in another thread as well

In fact, every single one of your posts is pointing to that article. Commencing cleanup now.


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Stephanie Dutcheson
Greenhorn

Joined: Dec 07, 2008
Posts: 17
I'm not sure about 'Commercial', i don't add this link at the end of the post
as others do.
I really find that tutorial useful.
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

Originally posted by Stephanie Dutcheson:
I'm not sure about 'Commercial', i don't add this link at the end of the post
as others do.
I really find that tutorial useful.


And that's fine but a) how is it relevant to this thread now and b) as Ulf pointed out, it is the only thing you are posting. Suggesting tutorials are great, but the way you went about it smells of spam.
Stephanie Dutcheson
Greenhorn

Joined: Dec 07, 2008
Posts: 17
Great, just go to that tutorial,
try lesson Spring+Hibernate
and only after that beside whether the tutorial
has something to do with this thread.
 
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