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what word do you use for "you plural"?

Jesper de Jong
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  22

Jan de Boer wrote:Actually I mean that pronunciation does not follow spelling, and the other way around.

I remember having a discussion about this with my fellow international students once. There were Danish, Swedish, French, German, English, Dutch and other students and they were all claiming that in their language you write things exactly like you pronounce them.

I don't know Spanish, but I don't think the way they pronounce "ll" is very much like how it's written.


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Matthew Brown
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Joined: Apr 06, 2010
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    8

Jesper de Jong wrote:I don't know Spanish, but I don't think the way they pronounce "ll" is very much like how it's written.

But if it's consistent, that's all that really matters. After all, the only way anything can be "written the way it's pronounced" or "pronounced the way it's written" is by convention, as they're fundamentally different concepts. So the most it can mean is "matches the dominant pronunciation in languages that use that alphabet", but is more likely to mean "matches how it's consistently pronounced in my language".

Look at Welsh, for example. It takes a bit to get used to the mapping (e.g. the country is "Cymru", said something like "Kumri" if you're English). But I get the impression it's pretty consistent, so once you learn how it works you can make a good attempt at it.

But I defy anyone unfamiliar with the name to get "Cholmondeley" right first time (it's a town in England) no matter how many rules you've learned.

Paul Clapham
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    8

Jan de Boer wrote:Ah there are more differences, not only single and plurar, also female and male:

In Spanish you have different forms for 'they', when you are talking about girls or boys. Ellos, ellas.


And in Slovene you have different plural forms depending on whether there are two or more than two:

ti = you (singular)

vidva = the two of you (dual)

vi = you (plural)

It also (like Spanish) has the gender-inflected forms in the third person, which produces six pronouns in the he/she/they area.



Michael Matola
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    2
Jesper de Jong wrote:I remember having a discussion about this with my fellow international students once. There were Danish, Swedish, French, German, English, Dutch and other students and they were all claiming that in their language you write things exactly like you pronounce them.


Finnish and Korean are commonly cited as the languages whose writing systems most nearly correspond to their phonological systems. (Phonology is a somewhat abstracted view of a language's sound system, with some of the noise of phonetics screened out.)

I don't know Spanish, but I don't think the way they pronounce "ll" is very much like how it's written.


That's not the kind of thing that would rule out Spanish (plus aren't there about three different regional pronunciations of "ll"?). It's stuff like the word for immense is spelled "inmenso" but pronounced "immenso."
Jan de Boer
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    1
Jesper de Jong wrote:I don't know Spanish, but I don't think the way they pronounce "ll" is very much like how it's written.


That is because ll is not a 'double l', but a separate letter! And that letter nevertheless is pronounced in a consequent manner: like lj more or less.
Elchin Asgarli
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And most of languages other than English have also distinction between formal and informal "you", such as du or Sie in German, so English makes one more big simplification


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fred rosenberger
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  16

Is English written exactly as it is pronounced?

Sure!!!


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Elchin Asgarli
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That's the biggest downside of English
Pat Farrell
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    5

Elchin Asgarli wrote:That's the biggest downside of English

Not to get too Meaningful here in MD, but I've heard that is it one of the big barriers to learning English for a lot of folks. I know that French has one pronunciation for any written word. Being a native English speaker, I don't know how others learn our silly language.
Paul Clapham
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    8

fred rosenberger wrote:Is English written exactly as it is pronounced?


I think English should be written exactly as it is pronounced -- by me, that is. Not as it is pronounced by some guy in Liverpool or Chicago, but the way I pronounce it. Nothing else makes sense.
Stephan van Hulst
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  17

That's why I've switched to US English spelling for the most part in recent years. It just makes more sense than British English to me.
Elchin Asgarli
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Stephan van Hulst wrote:That's why I've switched to US English spelling for the most part in recent years. It just makes more sense than British English to me.


I've always wondered, they always teach British English in schools in Europe, right?
Darryl Burke
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    5

Paul Clapham wrote:
fred rosenberger wrote:Is English written exactly as it is pronounced?


I think English should be written exactly as it is pronounced -- by me, that is. Not as it is pronounced by some guy in Liverpool or Chicago, but the way I pronounce it. Nothing else makes sense.


http://www.thinking-approach.org/index.php?id=249


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Stephan van Hulst
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  17

Elchin Asgarli wrote:I've always wondered, they always teach British English in schools in Europe, right?


Yes, and it took me a while to accept American English, but slowly I converted. I still write words like colour with an extra 'u' though.
 
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