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Failed although enough points

Jari Timonen
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Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 232
Vadym Ba wrote:If I were you, I wouldn't accept such an answer or would at least insist on the second try for free.
Scoring system is a part of the requirement and shouldn't be (or even is not allowed to be) changed after downloading the assignment.
They clearly resently added the additional requirement (I downloaded my assignment on April 3 and didn't have it). They changed it even after you sent them the requirement because they haven't even adjusted the failure email providing the reason for failing.
One pays together 600 dollars for part 2 and 3 not for such jokes


Sent again email.. Asked if could get free submission since they are changing requirements without notice.


But hey. In the meanwhile. Factory Homes Deployment Diagram. Clearly i'm lost with it and need some suggestions.. pointers..


SCJP 5.0, SCJD URLyBird 1.3.3, OCMJEA 5 (SCEA) Factory Homes
Krzysztof Koziol
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 19, 2006
Posts: 133

Jari Timonen wrote:
But hey. In the meanwhile. Factory Homes Deployment Diagram. Clearly i'm lost with it and need some suggestions.. pointers..


I think it shouldn't be too complicated, no more than 10 boxes. As is stated in assignment "to test the market", nothing about fail over, 200 users... I hope it will help you.


SCJP 5.0, SCWCD 5.0, SCBCD 5.0, SCEA/OCMJEA 5.0
Jari Timonen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 232
Krzysztof Koziol wrote:
Jari Timonen wrote:
But hey. In the meanwhile. Factory Homes Deployment Diagram. Clearly i'm lost with it and need some suggestions.. pointers..


I think it shouldn't be too complicated, no more than 10 boxes. As is stated in assignment "to test the market", nothing about fail over, 200 users... I hope it will help you.


Yep that might be it. Already simplified it. Maybe some more..
Krzysztof Koziol
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 19, 2006
Posts: 133

Jari,

Since you get max score in your Sequence Diagrams, could you please share the level of detailsof your diagrams? If you let's say call method on manager->addComponentToHouseDesign() which is not calling any integration objects, jus operates on POJOs did you show what's going on under the hood?

Thanks.
Ranil Liyana Arachchige
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 20, 2008
Posts: 71


Points | Minimum Pass | Score Received
Component Diagram 40 26 30
Class Diagram 40 26 27
Deployment Diagram 24 17 9 (failed required section)
Interaction Diagrams 16 0 16
Risk & Mitigation List 16 0 11
Part 3 Short Answer 24 17 24


Jari, based on the above information , the summation of minimum marks for different sections become 86 ? , then why do they mention about a score which is 114. Also it seems that if one scores minimum marks for individual sections , just by having 86 he or she must be able to pass the exam?. This is very confusing and also very inconsistent. I guess you could press them a bit more to reach a fair deal. They should at least give the second submission free. On the other hand now we loose the trust on the details in the assignment itself. Who knows later they would again change this to something else ?

Ranil


SCJP 1.4 (80%) , SCWCD5.0 (91%) , SCEA / OCMEA
M. A. Riveros T.
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 16, 2011
Posts: 46
What about the case you fail "Part 3 Short Answer" not reaching 17 points? What do you have to do?

And the minimum required section scores summing 86 with a minimum 114 overall score? It make completely no sense at all...

How can they tell you that you are not a jee enterprise architect if they can't sum those ints?

What is going on through Oracle's mind? C'mon... We are talking about a multinational corporation!
Jeanne Boyarsky
author & internet detective
Marshal

Joined: May 26, 2003
Posts: 30749
    
156

M. A. Riveros T. wrote:And the minimum required section scores summing 86 with a minimum 114 overall score? It make completely no sense at all...

How can they tell you that you are not a jee enterprise architect if they can't sum those natural numbers?

Sure it does. They are saying that you can't ignore the component diagram (say) completely and still pass. It is meant so you can't have just a few sections carry you on the whole exam.

I don't mind the new scoring system much, but I agree it shouldn't have been changed on people. I say "much" because I suspect my deployment diagram was one of my weaker areas since I disagree with some of the advice given there. But I figured my strong risks/assumptions/part 3 would cover me on it. I couldn't have made that assumption with the new scoring system.


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M. A. Riveros T.
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Joined: May 16, 2011
Posts: 46
Sure it does.


Sorry, but I disagree. What I expect from a company as large and prestigious as Oracle is a minimum of consistency: overall minimum PASS score should be equal to the sum of the section's minimum PASS scores...
Jari Timonen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 232
Well. I've used to this kind of Oracle. Fought with them because completely redicilous products (e.g. bugs that they wont fix). Oracle is an company that wants money. It's all about $$$.
Oracle / Sun with their expert groups is all about money. Who is there representing "the community"? Well - the biggest companies in the world.

We can fight it, but in the meanwhile - just live with it. I'm searching new languages - and leaning them. I don't see java as main stream language after 10 years.

That's me being rebel and cynical.

And please, do not ask me any questions with private messages.


ps. The first rule of founding company: Make money for the owners. Nerver forget that.
Ranganathan Kaliyur Mannar
Bartender

Joined: Oct 16, 2003
Posts: 1085
    
  10

M. A. Riveros T. wrote:And the minimum required section scores summing 86 with a minimum 114 overall score? It make completely no sense at all...


yah, and if you see the minimum marks for interaction diagrams and risk & mitigation list - its zero (and that is the reason its not summing upto 114). So, can I provide a design without sequence diagrams and still pass? - suppose I provide a perfect class dig (40) + perfect comp dig (40) + perfect dep dig (24) - this itself adds upto 104...

they can just provide some minimum marks to these 2 sections and that would make it logical...


Ranga.
SCJP 1.4, OCMJEA/SCEA 5.0.
Vadym Ba
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 08, 2011
Posts: 29
All these minimum marks really make sence, especially for Part 3 ! Probably, these marks could be a bit lower, especially for the Deployment Diagram. I don't see any sence in the requirement to achieve 65% for the Class and Component and 71% for the Deployment Diagram. I can't also understand completely ignoring Interactional Diagram, they were the most time consuming for me.
But they should stay in the requirement section of the assignment.
Changing them after downloading it is very questionable. But they even apply these changes to the people which sent the assignment previously to the date of adding these minimum marks, and this is really that should be completely disallowed.
Jari Timonen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 232
Resubmitted. Made completely new Deployment diagram. Improved component and class diagram.

btw: very good site: uml diagrams
Michael Zöller
Greenhorn

Joined: Nov 24, 2009
Posts: 16
Jari Timonen wrote:Resubmitted. Made completely new Deployment diagram. Improved component and class diagram.

btw: very good site: uml diagrams

Hey,
thanks for sharing your experience. Now we know that we have to be more careful on some of the diagrams, if we got an old assignment, too. You didn't know that, it 's just unfair.
Thumbs up for your resubmission

SCJP 6.0, SCJD, SCWCD, OCPJBCD, OCMJEA
Dumitru Postoronca
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 06, 2008
Posts: 46
M. A. Riveros T. wrote:
Sure it does.

Sorry, but I disagree. What I expect from a company as large and prestigious as Oracle is a minimum of consistency: overall minimum PASS score should be equal to the sum of the section's minimum PASS scores...

Oracle also expects from us to understand, that not putting a minimum requirement on some sections gives us some flexibility. If one of your diagrams is very good and the other - no so much, as long as the sum gives you a passing score -- you'll pass. There are some minimum scores set, per diagram, because it would be stupid to pass somebody that doesn't have a proper class diagram, that's why there is a minimum score for that specific diagram.

Also, the approximate 71% passing score seems a reasonable requirement, considering that, as you said, Oracle -- this prestigious company -- will be is calling you an Architect.
M. A. Riveros T.
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 16, 2011
Posts: 46
Dumitru Postoronca wrote:
Also, the approximate 71% passing score seems a reasonable requirement, considering that, as you said, Oracle -- this prestigious company -- will be is calling you an Architect.


Overall minimum PASS score should be equal to the sum of the section's minimum PASS scores...
Ram Pathan
Greenhorn

Joined: May 18, 2002
Posts: 6
I thought I did well but I am required to resubmit my assignment. I need to work on Deployment Diagram, Interaction Diagram and Risk & Mitigation Strategy.

For those of you who passed these sections can you share a web link that you used as reference for these?

@ Deployment Diagram - Did you guys provide 4 diagrams as mentioned here - http://www.uml-diagrams.org/deployment-diagrams-overview.html?





Vadym Ba
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 08, 2011
Posts: 29
After 66 days of waiting (mystic, as in film "9.5 weeks" , I've received the email, that I passed.
A bit proud of myself, as it were 4 very intensive weeks of work for me and a long waiting time.

Is there any chance to get the scores for part 2 & 3 or Oracle won't give such information?

Thanks everybody for help
Antoni Mysliborski
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 55
I completely cannot understand those people here insisting that
Overall minimum PASS score should be equal to the sum of the section's minimum PASS scores...

I believe it's quite clear and logical (at least for people hoping to become JEE Architects), that those are two completely separate requirements. Otherwise you would need to have minimum passing scores on each section (and still it wouldn't have to mean that overall passing score must be equal to the sum). The only thing that is obvious is that the sum of the section's minimum pass scores cannot be higher than the overall minimum pass score.

And I can agree that they shouldn't impose those new rules on people who didn't know about them - in my assignemt those minimum scores are already stated, so it's ok
Jeanne Boyarsky
author & internet detective
Marshal

Joined: May 26, 2003
Posts: 30749
    
156

Well said Anthoni!
Ranil Liyana Arachchige
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Joined: Sep 20, 2008
Posts: 71

I may not agree with you on the minimum pass score and the overall minimum score concept. Given the fact that there is a minimum score for a certain section means that if one scores the minimum then he should be considered as a person who cleared that section. Hence if one clears all the sections by having scored the minimums for all , he or she should be considered as cleared for all the sections. Now that there is another requirement that overall minimum should be 114. which means if one scores minimum for the sections he or she would not qualify as an architect. Clearly the minimum scores for different sections are not honored in the second requirement which would question the existence of the section wise minimum score. It would have been better if they make the summation of the minimum scores to be equal to the overall minimum. In fact they need not state the overall minimum as it is evident by section minimums.

It is very clear that those two requirements are conflicting each other rather than being complementing.
M. A. Riveros T.
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Joined: May 16, 2011
Posts: 46
You couldn't have said it better Ranil!
Antoni Mysliborski
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Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 55
It is written so explicitly that it cannot be more clear:
"Below are the sections of the assignment and points available per section with a minimum score per section if it is a required section to pass. Minimum score to pass the exam, if passing required sections, is 114 (tentatively set). If a person fails any of the required sections, then it is an automatic failure regardless of the final score."

That just means that your overall solution should be more or less good, but not necessarily perfect, but you CANNOT completely fail to provide good Class, Component or Deployment diagram (before it was possible).

There is not contradiction between those requirements, although indeed they are DIFFERENT, separate and autonomous requirements.

Clearly the minimum scores for different sections are not honored in the second requirement

This is absolutely correct
which would question the existence of the section wise minimum score.

this conclusion is completely wrong ;).

It would have been better if they make the summation of the minimum scores to be equal to the overall minimum.

You would have even less flexibility than now. Now at least I can fail Interaction Diagrams section, and can make for it with a very good class diagram. Why do you ask for even more restrictions?
Jeanne Boyarsky
author & internet detective
Marshal

Joined: May 26, 2003
Posts: 30749
    
156

In college in the United States, you need to pass all your classes and have a certain average overall in your major to graduate. This means, I can't fail Algorithms and do an amazing job in everything else. It shows I have some minimal level of mastery in all the subjects that matter. At the same time, I can plod along in everything and expect to be a computer scientist. The idea is that it is ok to have one or two weaker areas as long as you are have stronger areas to back it up.

The new requirement feels just like this. You need to have a minimal level of mastery in most of the diagrams. (except the ones that oddly have a minimum of zero.) However, you must be strong enough overall like in the past.
Ranil Liyana Arachchige
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 20, 2008
Posts: 71

What I believe is Oracle is still fine tuning the assignment requirements. That is why there are some grey areas that we all could argue on. Anyways as long as the requirement makes sense it should be backed up. On the other hand we should not encourage the sudden introduction of new requirements unless it is properly announced and every one is well acknowledged. Having a tough assessment would raise the quality and acceptance of the certification.

Having said that , I do not wish to make any comments on these new requirements anymore as those may well be changed in the future also. What we expect is consistency in requirements , not the overnight introduction of new ones once one has already downloaded the assignment and even has sent the assignment for grading. Those people would surely be disturbed with the constant discomfort resulted in thinking that if they could satisfy previously untold requirements. That is what we need to argue on and we need to argue whether it is justified or not.
Daniel Grigore
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 09, 2008
Posts: 1
(This might be a an un-permitted question, so if it is admins please delete it)
Jari, can you please tell me how different was your deployment diagram from the one presented in Mark Cade's book? I'm preparing to submit my solution, just found this post, and I'm thinking that my deployment diagram resembles all most perfectly with what's on that book. I concentrated more on class and sequence diagram so I might need to go back and review the deployment diagram. Thanks
Vadym Ba
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 08, 2011
Posts: 29
Ranil Liyana Arachchige wrote:
Having said that , I do not wish to make any comments on these new requirements anymore as those may well be changed in the future also. What we expect is consistency in requirements , not the overnight introduction of new ones once one has already downloaded the assignment and even has sent the assignment for grading. Those people would surely be disturbed with the constant discomfort resulted in thinking that if they could satisfy previously untold requirements. That is what we need to argue on and we need to argue whether it is justified or not.


Ranil, that exactly what I was feeling. I had very good overall feeling after sending and assignment and having the essay. I was sure, I will pass. It had been better not to read this forum after that, because after having read these additional requirements I felt myself very uncomfortable thinking that I could have f.e. 140 points but only 16 in the Deployment Diagram .
To pay and resubmit again would probably be not so much trouble, but to wait another 9.5 weeks for the result would drive me crazy, I don't know if they grade the resubmition faster than the first attempt. But I passed, and it's even better feeling having done this under such circumstances
M. A. Riveros T.
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Joined: May 16, 2011
Posts: 46
... minimum score per section if it is a required section to pass... required sections[:] Component, Class, Deployment [and] Question...


Regarding scoring on the Architect assignment and essay
giuseppe fanuzzi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 18, 2006
Posts: 99
wow! so, if i fail a diagram and short answer i've to repeat both exams?!


GiUsEpPe (SCJP, SCWCD, SCBCD, IBM OOAD, SCEA/OCMJEA 5)
M. A. Riveros T.
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 16, 2011
Posts: 46
giuseppe fanuzzi wrote:wow! so, if i fail a diagram and short answer i've to repeat both exams?!


Go figure it out...
Rajan Choudhary
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 17, 2011
Posts: 196
waiting for the result and feeling bad after reading this post.
S.Kumar Jha
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 16, 2007
Posts: 11
Jari Timonen wrote:Sent again email.. Asked if could get free submission since they are changing requirements without notice.


Did you get any reply for above mail ?

[Edit: changed to use quote rather than using a color that blends into the background]
Jari Timonen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 232
It's stated in the terms that passing grades can be changed without any notice. Btw. Still waiting for result of resubmission. 4months!
Thomas Felix
Greenhorn

Joined: Oct 27, 2011
Posts: 13
Hi Jari,
Did you resubmitted all the diagram(old and updated) ? or only Updated one ?

With
Thomas T
Jari Timonen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 232
Thomas Felix wrote:Hi Jari,
Did you resubmitted all the diagram(old and updated) ? or only Updated one ?

With
Thomas T


Resubmitted whole updated project. (no old one)
Thomas Felix
Greenhorn

Joined: Oct 27, 2011
Posts: 13
So you updated all diagrams. Even you secure more than minimum marks in a particular section?
Jari Timonen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 232
Thomas Felix wrote:So you updated all diagrams. Even you secure more than minimum marks in a particular section?


I updated all that did not have maximum score. I used approximately 10 hours improving my submission.
 
I agree. Here's the link: http://aspose.com/file-tools
 
subject: Failed although enough points