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Suspect and doubt

fred rosenberger
lowercase baba
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Joined: Oct 02, 2003
Posts: 11479
    
  16

Mike Okri wrote:If I can provide evidence that your fingerprint is on a knife, I have proved that you touched the knife.

Not according to many cop shows I've seen. Everyone knows person 'A' can lift person B's fingerprints with cellophane tape and then plant them on the knife.

I think I just saw it happen on a law and order re-run last week.


There are only two hard things in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors
Mike Okri
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 22, 2011
Posts: 83
Thanks for that Fred. We've established that the correct phrase should be sufficient evidence.
Joanne Neal
Rancher

Joined: Aug 05, 2005
Posts: 3739
    
  16
Mike Okri wrote:You cannot say that you didn't misunderstand me when you obviously did

Read the whole of my reply.

Mike Okri wrote:If I say Mr A ate something and Miss B ate something, it doen't necessarily mean that they've eaten the same thing.

Once again, you make my point for me. Originally you said there was no way it could mean the same thing. Now you're saying it doen't (sic) necessarily mean ... the same thing. i.e. more than one interpretation of what you said is possible.


Joanne
Mike Okri
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Joined: Jun 22, 2011
Posts: 83
If I say Mr A ate something and Miss B ate something , I agree that it's possible to make the assumption that they've eaten the same thing, however, I think that it will be wrong to make this assumption because this information has not been provided. The only information that has been provided is the fact that Mr A and Miss B have both eaten something.
fred rosenberger
lowercase baba
Bartender

Joined: Oct 02, 2003
Posts: 11479
    
  16

Mike Okri wrote:Thanks for that Fred. We've established that the correct phrase should be sufficient evidence.

I was just trying to inject a little levity into this thread
Joanne Neal
Rancher

Joined: Aug 05, 2005
Posts: 3739
    
  16
Mike Okri wrote:If I say Mr A ate something and Miss B ate something , I agree that it's possible to make the assumption that they've eaten the same thing, however, I think that it will be wrong to make this assumption because this information has not been provided. The only information that has been provided is the fact that Mr A and Miss B have both eaten something.

I agree, but the fact that it is possible to make an assumption introduces an element of doubt and when you are discussing something more precise (such as language semantics) you need to remove as much doubt about your meaning as possible.

Mike Okri wrote:To doubt that something is true is to suspect that it is false.
makes your meaning clear.

Mike Okri wrote:If you doubt something, this implies that you suspect something
is open to interpretation.
Joanne Neal
Rancher

Joined: Aug 05, 2005
Posts: 3739
    
  16
fred rosenberger wrote:
Mike Okri wrote:Thanks for that Fred. We've established that the correct phrase should be sufficient evidence.

I was just trying to inject a little levity into this thread

I've been having fun. Certainly more fun that writing a design doc which is what I should have been doing.
Paul Clapham
Bartender

Joined: Oct 14, 2005
Posts: 18907
    
    8

Mike Okri wrote:If I say Mr A ate something and Miss B ate something , I agree that it's possible to make the assumption that they've eaten the same thing...


Actually it's very unlikely that they have eaten the same thing, since once Miss B eats something, that thing is no longer available for Mr A to eat. Unless Miss B then regurgitates the thing, making it available again. I'm willing to believe that this has happened at least once but I would still classify it as a very low-probability event.
Mike Simmons
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Joined: Mar 05, 2008
Posts: 3018
    
  10
Mike Okri wrote:Thanks for that Fred. We've established that the correct phrase should be sufficient evidence.

To be fair, "proof" also worked just fine.
Jesper de Jong
Java Cowboy
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Aug 16, 2005
Posts: 14347
    
  22

Isn't there also a difference in emphasis in the word "suspect" depending on how you use it?

"The guy with the brown hair is the primary suspect."
"I suspect that it's going to rain tomorrow."

First vs. second syllable, noun vs. verb.


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Mike Okri
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Joined: Jun 22, 2011
Posts: 83
Paul Clapham wrote:Actually it's very unlikely that they have eaten the same thing, since once Miss B eats something, that thing is no longer available for Mr A to eat.

You're assuming that the thing eaten by Mr A is the same thing eaten by Miss B. As Joanne pointed out, the statement Mr A ate something and Miss B ate something is subject to interpretation. These inaccurate assumptions are possible:
  • Mr A ate a piece of fish and Miss B ate a piece of ham.
  • Mr A ate a portion of a piece of fish and Miss B ate a portion of the same piece of fish.
  • Mr A ate a piece of fish and then regurgitated the piece of fish. Miss B then ate the regurgitated food.

  • In my opinion, I think that the only accurate assumptions that can be made from this statement are that Mr A has had something to eat and Miss B has had something to eat. In other words, I can accurately assume that if I ask Mr A Have you had something to eat, he'll say Yes I've had something to eat. Similarly, I can accurately assume that if I ask Miss B Have you had something to eat, she'll say Yes I've had something to eat. In my opinion, making any assumption about the type of food eaten is wrong because this information has not been provided.

    Blimey! It's no wonder that the bible has a million and one interpretations; many of which are inaccurate.
    Paul Clapham
    Bartender

    Joined: Oct 14, 2005
    Posts: 18907
        
        8

    Jesper de Jong wrote:Isn't there also a difference in emphasis in the word "suspect" depending on how you use it?


    There's a short(ish) list of words to which that rule applies. Common among those words: two syllables, can be used as noun or verb, Latin root. Other examples: project, conduct.
    Paul Clapham
    Bartender

    Joined: Oct 14, 2005
    Posts: 18907
        
        8

    Mike Okri wrote:You're assuming that the thing eaten by Mr A is the same thing eaten by Miss B. As Joanne pointed out, the statement Mr A ate something and Miss B ate something is subject to interpretation.


    Yup. And if Mr A and Miss B had photographed the same thing, instead of eating the same thing, then a different set of interpretations would be possible, with different probability ratings.
    Joanne Neal
    Rancher

    Joined: Aug 05, 2005
    Posts: 3739
        
      16
    So Akhilesh - are the differences between doubt and suspect clear to you now ?
    John Jai
    Bartender

    Joined: May 31, 2011
    Posts: 1776
    Even if he is clear I am completely confused following all the replies I doubt (or suspect) I use doubt (or suspect) hereafter in my life
    Mike Simmons
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Mar 05, 2008
    Posts: 3018
        
      10
    I suspect that's a good idea.
    Greg Charles
    Sheriff

    Joined: Oct 01, 2001
    Posts: 2861
        
      11

    Really? I doubt it.
    gyan kumar
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Sep 28, 2011
    Posts: 61
    Suspect has more chances to be true.
    and doubt has verly less chances to be true.
    Akhilesh Trivedi
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Jun 22, 2005
    Posts: 1533
    Joanne Neal wrote:So Akhilesh - are the differences between doubt and suspect clear to you now ?


    Yes Joanne, I suspect it is clear now. It will however take me time to digest difference between evidence and proof and that 'same-thing' thing.


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