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Some facts about India

Pakka Desi
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Joined: Oct 11, 2002
Posts: 177
Originally posted by <Mahatma Gandhi>:
Educated people in india should defenitely oppose sangh parivar activities.they are pulling india 1000000 years backwards by injecting communal toxins into innocent peoples minds.

This will never happen. Sangh has got more supporters as education level in India went up. The reason is, people can now understand what is right or wrong. Earlier, lack of education and a general perception that "west is best" caused people to think may be their culture and religion is really inferior. They believed what religious leaders or political leaders told them. However, with education level going up and they can decide on their own. And you'll see that Sangh will get more support.
Originally posted by <Mahatma Gandhi>:

Killing muslims and christiens will not make nothing good for india.even though they are minority,they are very large in number.so killing them will only make india burn.kill all minority and gain power for hindu's is not practical.

This is totally baseless alligation. Nobody is trying to kill anybody.
Originally posted by <Mahatma Gandhi>:

Sangh parivar is giving their all for brainwashing uneducated youth and using them for killing minorities and making troubles and utilising that troubles for power.they got power only by communal riots.all good indians should oppose them for a good future.

As I said before, there cannot be any brainwashing if people are educated. Brainwashing happened before when foreign concepts/religions were shoved down the throat of uneducated people.
Even people educated in missionary schools support Sangh because they can now see through their gameplan.


I'm just saying...it's right there!
Paul McKenna
Ugly Redneck
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 08, 2000
Posts: 1006
[The king has once again entered..]
First of all kudos to Shankar! He has said what I had been thinking for a long time. Its time Indians broke away from the shackles of Political Correctness that has permeated through our society since we obtained freedom. Shankar, incase you were looking for a word to describe the feeling.. its called Political Correctness. Call a spade a spade, done have to say "its beautiful, its wonderful, its a spade like thing"
Secondly, I also concur with Sameer that most muslims I have befriended or know of root for India as dearly as I do. Same goes for my Christians friends/acquiantances. There is a blatant generalization going around that muslims support pakistan no matter what and christians want to convert hindus no matter what. I find these extremely silly and to me appear as erroneous as the assumption a few americans make when they think I'm an Arab terrorist.
However that being said, I'd like to point out to Sameer that there are growing elements in Indian society which are trying to tear the country apart from within. Two examples come to mind immediately.. the Bangladeshi illegals in West Bengal and Pakistani grooms/brides in UP. If not checked these people will lead to a total collapse of the communal harmony very soon. And I think it would be in the best interest of Sameer and all other Indian muslims like him to take an avid interest in monitoring the growth of this segment. After all, when things go wrong no person is going to have the patience to differentiate between Indian muslims and muslims of Bangla / Paki origin.
Finally, for what Pakka Desi said.. the way that Muslims and Christians are altering the face of Indian society. Well.. dont you think Indians are altering the face of Western society? The root cause of all problems is that the minority tries to impose its rule on the majority. This is happening in India. Its also happening in America. I have seen a few muslims / hindus blatantly criticize the christian society they live in, in America. Well.. everytime I hear such talk I wonder what this person is doing here if he doesnt like the imposition of Judaio-Christianity. Muslims and Chrisitans in India must learn to live amongst Hindus by adopting the core priniciples of Hinduism. It is okay to have difference of opinion but it is vital to remain focussed on the same goals. Similarly when I came to America, within a few years I shed some of my Hindu principles to fit better in the Christian American society. Make no mistake about it, I'm still very much a Hindu and still very far from being a Christian.. but as long as I am in America I will accept the Chrisitian way of life. When I set foot in India, I will expect them to reciprocate.
[ June 06, 2003: Message edited by: Sriraj Rajaram ]

Commentary From the Sidelines of history
San Su
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
Originally posted by <Mahatma Gandhi>:
[QB]..........QB]

Mr. Anonymous, could you please stop using that name to make your silly points??? Thank you.
No one needs �brainwashing� lessons to learn once own history. Care to point out what are all points I made are "brainwashed"?
sunitha reghu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 12, 2002
Posts: 937
Originally posted by Sriraj Rajaram:
.
However that being said, I'd like to point out Similarly when I came to America, within a few years I shed some of my Hindu principles to fit better in the Christian American society. Make no mistake about it, I'm still very much a Hindu and still very far from being a Christian.. but as long as I am in America I will accept the Chrisitian way of life. When I set foot in India, I will expect them to reciprocate.
[ June 06, 2003: Message edited by: Sriraj Rajaram ]

Sriraj you came to usa as an indian not as an american christian . The christians in india are indians. When missionaries came to india these indians got converted to christianity. they are not frm any other place. so pls dont say they making changes in india. Take the case of kerala. Kerala is more developed than any other states in india. What is the reason? More convent schools and more christians there. Average life span of ppl in kerala is same as usa. The work done by christian missionaries in India is admirable. Majority of good indian schools are run by whom?.
What do u mean by u shed hindu principles and trying to live as christian. Are you going to church on sundays or are you reading bible everyday. Then that makes sense.
The muslims in india are also indians ie wat sammer trying to convince. I truely agree with what sameer and ravish saying. Actually who started all these rift between hindus and muslims.
I have so many muslim, hindu and also christian.
actually never asked the religion.
Do we have a hindu Mother tresa in india?
[ June 07, 2003: Message edited by: sunitha raghu ]
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
originally posted by pakka desi
Even people educated in missionary schools support Sangh because they can now see through their gameplan.

what is wrong with christien missionaries working in india?.they only provided something good for india.only good.nothing bad.
who is creating probloms or communal riots for power??.sangh privar recently killed christien missionaries by burning them alive.innocent people are becoming animals by communal brainwashing done by sangh parivar.only animals can burn a living humen.
what christien missionaries done wrong to hindus??.to burn then alive?.
nowadays communal riots takes place everywhere in india.who is responsible for it?.who made distinction in peoples minds so they kill their past friends?.who is giving 'trishool'(a weapon) for motivating hindus and making them 'fit' for communal riots?.it's very clear that sangh parivar got power in india only due to their communal isolation techniques.
originally posted by pakka desi
And you'll see that Sangh will get more support.

in past,education mean humanity and knowledge.educated people in past pocessed humanity
also.now in india,for a mass educated people having only knowledge(no improvement in humanity and true charector due to education).they are only selfish people with some knowledge in some field,they aquired it for only better living.only these kind of selfish people joining in sangh parivar.a truely eduacated person can never think in communal way.
Pradeep bhatt
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8904

Intersting discussion


Groovy
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Here what you are talking about it subsect of the Hindu religion. And BTW, who is preaching to force something? All I asked was why don't we accept the fact that India is (artificially) united because of the religion.
You are 90% correct....
You are 90% correct because looks like you think religion and society/culture is 2 different things.
I think India is united because it has almost same social culture [not because of Hindu religion.]
I think they are same. Its foolishnesss to be in US and not to celeberate X-mas. If you are in US then you will do all your shoping in Dec only
You cant say that I wont shop in X-mas cause I am Hindu.

Let me remind you what was the foundation when the country was divided in 1947.
Muslim majority - Pakistan
Hindu majority - India
Whether you agree with it or not, that is the fact.

This was a political theory of division. Real story if you want to know then read "Freedom at midnight".
Pakistan is not Jinaah's win but it was Gandhi ji's failure.
Nations are not build on the basis of religion.


"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
sunitha reghu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 12, 2002
Posts: 937
Mahatama you are truley Mahatama!!!. I wish every indian have the same mentality like urs.

Originally posted by <Mahatma Gandhi>:

in past,education mean humanity and knowledge.educated people in past pocessed humanity
also.now in india,for a mass educated people having only knowledge(no improvement in humanity and true charector due to education).they are only selfish people with some knowledge in some field,they aquired it for only better living.only these kind of selfish people joining in sangh parivar.a truely eduacated person can never think in communal way.
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Panditji talked about "Hindi-Chini bhai bhai".
You know what followed...

FYI, at that time, defense officials said Pandit ji to not to wahe war as our army was weak.
But Pandit ji said, "Let them come to Delhi but I want the village."
China ocupied one village at that time.
I dont remember the name of book .. this was written in that book. And actually writer was some defense personal and was blaiming Pandit ji to go for war when all defence officials knew the end result.

I agree with you that it is in our blood that even though we were killed in millions by the islamic barbarian invaders and we were suppressed by them for 600-700 years , we still respect their value and their way life.

I think you are talking abt Moughal era. I read it here and responded it in my previous post.
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Sankar Subbiah:

Uneducated masses? Dude, did you learn History in your school? If not, let me know. I can teach you some..

Sorry to differ from your views this time .. AW again its in our blood to differ with each other on non sense issues
But on serious note, I have read history in text books, novels and from BHU's professor[Not in a classroom but in my uncle's home]
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
[/b]Mahatama you are truley Mahatama!!!.[/b]
Mahatma Gandhi was the biggest political Saint!!
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Sorry king .. call me infidel of infidel religion spreading in JR
Call me traitor of Infidel kingdom
but I dont support you on your this view.

There is a blatant generalization going around that muslims support pakistan no matter what
Oh realy .. in my knowledge only Kanjars,[poor and uneducated caste/group of muslims in India] do this and thats also now changing. Please read survey which was published in India-today around2-3 yrs back.
christians want to convert hindus no matter what.
though I oppose it, but still sometimes I dont find anything wrong in it. Its the missionaries sin that they want to convert by giving bribe, but a person who is changign faith, it is a matter of money.
And we all are living for money.. right.
Two examples come to mind immediately.. the Bangladeshi illegals in West Bengal and Pakistani grooms/brides in UP. If not checked these people will lead to a total collapse of the communal harmony very soon.
And I was thinking, atleast for grooms/brides exchange, that it will bring harmony between two country.
when things go wrong no person is going to have the patience to differentiate between Indian muslims and muslims of Bangla / Paki origin.
You are anticipating something which I hate.
AW what is the difference between these muslims ??
Most of the Pakistani's have relatives in India and most of the Bangla Deshi's have relatives in India and hence vice-versa.
The root cause of all problems is that the minority tries to impose its rule on the majority.
Wrong .. miniority wants to save its values ... or whatever you name it.
What is the need of temple in US when its not Hindu country. But Hindu's there built it .. why ..
Are you trying to say that they are impoasing Hinduism
Muslims and Chrisitans in India must learn to live amongst Hindus by adopting the core priniciples of Hinduism.
I would love to know core principles of Hinduism.
Please DO tell me the core principles of Hinduism.
I can bet on it .. how much hinduism I practise you wont be practising in your life.
I dont wear Jenau, because I know what rules should be followed after Jenau cermony. I cant follow those rules today so I denied it.
Buy wearing Janau if someone becomes Hindu then I wonder who is real Hindu , you or me ??
And you are talking abt Hinduism.. dont wear stiched clothes... and then stand up and say that I followed at least in dress up hinduism so you too follow Hinduism.
Yes, we hindu's are not suppose to wear stitched clothes ....
Oh all these might be surface of Hinduism, please tell me the core of Hinduism.
I shed some of my Hindu principles to fit better in the Christian American society.
What .. what did you say ??
Christian american society....
I would like to get confirmation on this from any fellow ranchers who is US citizen by birth.
Do they believe that American society is Christian american society?
but as long as I am in America I will accept the Chrisitian way of life.
I think you are trying to say, you have accepted American way of life. Nothing worng... very good.
What gives you impression that any Indian does not follow indian society OR indian way of life??
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Sankar Subbiah:

Here what you are talking about it subsect of the Hindu religion. And BTW, who is preaching to force something? All I asked was why don't we accept the fact that India is (artificially) united because of the religion. Let me remind you what was the foundation when the country was divided in 1947.
Muslim majority - Pakistan
Hindu majority - India
Whether you agree with it or not, that is the fact.

This is bulls$^%. You write a message and press submit .. go to other window assuming that you have posted and when you come back you find this message :
FYI
We cannot process your posting, because you have exceeded the maximum number of images allowed per post. The current maximum is 8.

and when you press back .. everything has gone ..
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Ravish Kumar:
I think you are talking abt Moughal era. I read it here and responded it in my previous post.

Sorry Sankar .. my crap could not be posted because of some sily rule of not posting more than 8 smiley .,..
I wasted my almost 1 hr in writing that .....
will right later .. I have work now .. my girl friend is waiting for me
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371

if you have learnt Hindi grammer in school, you can do a 'sandhi-vichhed' of Hindusthan and see that it is Hinduh + sthan.

I have always been in Hindi Medium school[upto 12th]. The convent school I studied was Hindi medium[up to 8th]. After that I studied in Govt. Inter College.[8 - 12th]
I read Bible in Hindi
When you were studying garvitational force, I was studying Grutvakarshan Bal
So if you do Sandhi-Viched of Hindustan then still it will remain Hindu + Stan
'Tha' does not change to 'Ta' after combining words.
Exa: Rajasthan = Raja + Sthan.
Rajasthan is RajasTHan not Rajastan.
[b]What does it mean to you, I am curious.[/QB]
For me it does not matter at all, we can even call it Aryasthan
I am not against name of Hindustan, because for me Hindu is never a religion, as someone has said earlier, for me its a way of life.
And if someone says that Id is festival of Muslims then sometimes I think, if its festival of Muslims then why do I wait for Id [obviously for Sevainya and Zarda rice ]
For me its shocking that here, down south, Muslim even dont know what is Zarda [Zarda is sweet red color rice] :roll:
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Ummah, in which they believe that all muslims of the world belong to one country?
Its in the theory only,
Money is the only religion

(BTW, this is my theory and I could be wrong.)
You might be right in this theory of yours

For past 700 years, Indians (which were mostly Hindus, Buddhists, Jains) were constantly under attack from Islamic forces and then Christian forces.
in early 1500 Babar came India and then lived here[One can always cry that his grave is not in India] and after that till Bhadurshah Jafar they ruled. I dont think there was any evidence where hindus were treated differently than Muslim. [Exception is time period of Auranjeb]

If you want to see british forces as Christian forces then I have point that they were british force not christian force as there whole sole aim was to loot not to spread christianity.
And anyone who thinks that british gave anything to India then the only thing they have given is current political map of India else everything they had looted .
And who think that caste system is worse and brit were doing some thing abt caste system .. then there system was worse than caste system. At least in caste system you are known by your blood/family .. not by the color of skin.
And both these people forced their religion upon the locals. Now, since the ruling clas xs was of a different religion than the local population, obviously, the local religion was treated inferior and the foriegn religion was treated superior. So slowly the converts started feeling superior than the non-converts. Now, the aggressors gone, the ruling class's religion is same as the local population's religion. This is perceived as trouble for the people of foreign religion since they do not identify themselves with the locals anymore.
This hypothesis is good but lacks some major points to become theoary.
... shit I am going ..,...
I will get back to you later..
San Su
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
Originally posted by Ravish Kumar:
You are 90% correct....
You are 90% correct because looks like you think religion and society/culture is 2 different things.

. Do you see the contradiction in your post??? . First you went ahead saying religion and society is not 2 different thing. They are same. then...

I think India is united because it has almost same social culture [not because of Hindu religion.]

.. you say they are 2 different thing. which is true??

I think they are same. Its foolishnesss to be in US and not to celeberate X-mas. If you are in US then you will do all your shoping in Dec only
You cant say that I wont shop in X-mas cause I am Hindu.

Could you please enlighten me why it is foolishness? How many non Hindus celebrate Deepavali or Krishna Javanthi in India? And if you think XMas shopping is somthing to do with culture, I don't have any problem with that.

This was a political theory of division. Real story if you want to know then read "Freedom at midnight".
Pakistan is not Jinaah's win but it was Gandhi ji's failure.
Nations are not build on the basis of religion.[/QB]


Whatever the background story is(whether it is Jinnah's greed or Gandhiji's failure), the story given to the masses and to the world speak otherwise.
San Su
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
Originally posted by Ravish Kumar:
[QB]Panditji talked about "Hindi-Chini bhai bhai".
You know what followed...

FYI, at that time, defense officials said Pandit ji to not to wahe war as our army was weak.
But Pandit ji said, "Let them come to Delhi but I want the village."
China ocupied one village at that time.
I dont remember the name of book .. this was written in that book. And actually writer was some defense personal and was blaiming Pandit ji to go for war when all defence officials knew the end result.

That is what I pointed out... He was singing "Hindi-Chini bhai bhai" when they were planning India's invasion. He failed to listen to the army commander at that time.
Raman Anand
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 07, 2003
Posts: 2
Its great to read the information collected by you .To add to this Uncle Sam's America holds Indians at the key positions in Research and Development.
India Aha !!!
San Su
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
Originally posted by Ravish Kumar:
in early 1500 Babar came India and then lived here[One can always cry that his grave is not in India] and after that till Bhadurshah Jafar they ruled. I dont think there was any evidence where hindus were treated differently than Muslim. [Exception is time period of Auranjeb]

When people say Islamic invasion, they are not talking about Mohal only. Have you forget about Timor? what do you say about Ghazini? When Aladi Ghilji attacked Madurai, the priests in the Meenakshi temple hid the main lingam somewhere inside the temple and placed a fake one in place of it. As expected, he came and broke it. It is still there in that temple for display. You will not read it in any history books. So many incidents are like that. What happend to the people in Afganistan and Pakistan who lived there before the islamic invasion? Everyone knows how Islam spread in Asia. Did you forget about Jaziya tax imposed on non-muslims?
San Su
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
And do you know there is a major road still being called as "Aurangzeb road" in our capital, New Delhi? That is the beauty of Hindu tolerance...
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Sankar Subbiah:
you say they are 2 different thing. which is true??

You got it ..
OK let me clear this first ....
Religion depends on society, society depends upon 100s of thing starting form geographic location to number of times a person laugh in that group of people which will make society.
Once this cycle completes. I mean a religion takes birth as per at that time society's need.
Now religion starts changing society but a very little bit ..its very difficult to change a society and it takes long time... and most of the time religion fails to change society.
We can see what happend to Jain's religion. Its almost verge of disapper cause the rules and regulations are like that society cant follow.
Its SARS so everybody is puting mask ... not because everyone has adopted Jain
you asked :
How many non Hindus celebrate Deepavali or Krishna Javanthi in India?
I ask how many Hindu celeberate Id.
And very obviously .. why should I celeb Id .. I am Hindu.
But yes I wait for Id. Seyainya is not made in my home. I am invited and then I go and eat sevaniya.
Do you celeb Id ??
And if not then any other reason than saying that its India thats why I dont celeb Id ?
I wonder if in US, they[Muslims] make the same Sevaniya in Id

I cant say anything abt Janmasthmi[Krishna Jayanti] but I have so many muslim friends .. even I got one here in blore also who celeb Holi to Diwali with me ..
And you know the interesting part.. in blore even the Hindu dont celeb Holi
My this Holi was so boring .. thanks to Ummer. I was fearing to put color on hindu's so I put on him. The only person with whom I celeb Holi here this yr.
Its all depends on us, us means us .. have we come out of our ghettos.... till we dont come out we never know that muslims do celeb Holi/Diwali.
And even if we dont celeb then it does not make them any less Indian then you and me. :-|
And I wonder till when celeb fest makes some Hindu or Muslim.....
You must be knowing .. down here .. most of the fest are not celeb which are celeb in North.... and vice-versa.
so your theory of celebrating fest is in itself wrong as all hindu's do not celeb all fest :-|
Have you ever invited any muslim to your home ??
We always cry that they demand for Halal... when some one has chaged his faith ..
can you make any veggie to eat non-veg .. he wont eat just because of faith ...
Are we ready to change ourself...
If now we reached to at this point that now we can give loan to other countries, we can launch satelite for small and poor countries ... All this acievement is only because we are the we are.
And if you think XMas shopping is somthing to do with culture,
So what do you think?? X-mas shoping is what ?
Its religious event ?
So as per you .. only christian shop owner should decorate their shops in X-mas.
I have never been in US. Neither I am consulting anyone. ANd I am 99% sure that all shopkeeper must be decorating their shops regardless of their religion.
So you tell me, its culture OR religious event ?
If you say that NO, only shop owners who are christian decorate their shops and offer SALE, then I am wrong. Its a religious event.
the story given to the masses and to the world speak otherwise.
Yes .. today we have more muslims then Pakistan
If we see riots between Hindu & Muslims.
We all know its political but still how many do we have in last 20 yrs ??
I can count on fingers [1980/1992/2002].. do you need calculator?
Pakistan has more riots betn Siya & Sunni than we have among ourselves .. and there even its not politically motivated. They have religious riots.
Its the failure of base of creation of pakistan.
I would love to get any comment from any Pakistani.
No country can progress if it believes in one religion.
You can take example of US. It is at top because it never entertained Pope.
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Sankar Subbiah:

That is what I pointed out... He was singing "Hindi-Chini bhai bhai" when they were planning India's invasion. He failed to listen to the army commander at that time.

I think you misinterpreted..
The book says that after the visit of China PM/president whoever that was. When first time Chinese tries to capture one village near Arunachal Pradesh. At that time defence officers said that let them take that village as our army was not in the position of going for war at that time but Nehru said he wanted chinese to be out of village and started war.
And it was that war, though we lost but we never had any other war with China. Reason you can understand.
And now .. I dont think anyone will think of attacking
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Sankar Subbiah:
When people say Islamic invasion, they are not talking about Mohal only. Have you forget about Timor? what do you say about Ghazini? When Aladi Ghilji attacked Madurai, the priests in the Meenakshi temple hid the main lingam somewhere inside the temple and placed a fake one in place of it. As expected, he came and broke it. It is still there in that temple for display. You will not read it in any history books. So many incidents are like that. What happend to the people in Afganistan and Pakistan who lived there before the islamic invasion? Everyone knows how Islam spread in Asia. Did you forget about Jaziya tax imposed on non-muslims?

Have you been to Elephanta caves, Bombay.
Portuguess came, looted and demolished all temples.
Those were looters, they only ageda was loot. So they looted and what was not for their use they destroyed. It happens in any looting after war. Take example of Iraq, their own people were destrying theor own musium :roll:
And what ever names you took they came only for looting.
Now connecting those looting with Mughal era is non-sense. Even in Mughal era India became so strong that we had very less attckes for Mangole.
And in Mughal era, I think both religion were blooming together. Together when I say I mena together, you cant a force a Hindu to go Majar.
But Hindu used to go and still goes to Majar. Does he does not remain Hindu coz he visited a Majar
And he was not forced to go ??
Did you konw Jaziya Tax was removed by Mughals.
And it was Indian culture which allowed a Muslim woman to rule the country, I am talking abt Rajia Sultan. Do you think Muslim rules allow a woman to rule
AW Rajia removed Jaziya Tax.
Can you seperate sugar once mingled in milk ??
Now you have to drink it .. cry or laugh.
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Sankar Subbiah:
And do you know there is a major road still being called as "Aurangzeb road" in our capital, New Delhi? That is the beauty of Hindu tolerance...

Do you want to change it to AndColorPocket?
There were, there are, there will be always fanatics.
San Su
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
Damn.. I can't make head or tail out of your post. :roll: No offence please..

Originally posted by Ravish Kumar:
You got it ..

So, you are saying it is 2 different things?


Religion depends on society, society depends upon 100s of thing starting form geographic location to number of times a person laugh in that group of people which will make society.
Once this cycle completes. I mean a religion takes birth as per at that time society's need.
Now religion starts changing society but a very little bit ..its very difficult to change a society and it takes long time...

So, you say there is nothing called "Hindu Socity", "Muslim/Islamic socity" or "Chiristian Socity"? But only "Indian socity", "Pakistani socity" or "American socity"? What forms "Indian socity"? What is common in them?

and most of the time religion fails to change society.

in what sense???

We can see what happend to Jain's religion. Its almost verge of disapper cause the rules and regulations are like that society cant follow.

Could you please tell me what rules and regulations forced it to be extinct? And do you think other religious followers follow the rules and regulation tooth and nail?

you asked :
How many non Hindus celebrate Deepavali or Krishna Javanthi in India?
I ask how many Hindu celeberate Id.
And very obviously .. why should I celeb Id .. I am Hindu.

Yes I asked because YOU said "living in America and not celebrating XMas is foolishness". My question was, would you say the same word to Muslims and Chiristians if they don't celebrate Krishna jayanthi/Deepavali)? Would you say that? You will be called "Hindu extremist" if you say that. I am not asking anyone to celebrate anything and I won't call it foolishness if they don't. Even if you as a Hindu don't celebrate Deepavali, it is up to you. It is everyone's personal interest. In Banglore, if people don't celebrate Holi, I won't say call it foolishness. FYI, I did celebrate XMas last year not because to avoid the foolishness you are pointing out, but because I found fun in it. I do celebrate Deepavali for fun. I saw the happiness in the kid's eyes when we gave gifts too them (we video taped it). If Id or any other festival give that happiness, yes I would happily celebrate it.
And holi was fun when I was studying in college.

Its all depends on us, us means us .. have we come out of our ghettos.... till we dont come out we never know that muslims do celeb Holi/Diwali.

I wouldn't call it "foolishness" if they don't. And not all muslims celebrate it, IMO.

And even if we dont celeb then it does not make them any less Indian then you and me. :-|
And I wonder till when celeb fest makes some Hindu or Muslim.....
You must be knowing .. down here .. most of the fest are not celeb which are celeb in North.... and vice-versa.

So, you tell me what is common in "Indian Socity"? And what you are saying is "Evolution" in "Hindu Socity"/"Hindu religion" (forgive me for using the word which you don't agree). Correct me if I am wrong, Hinduism doesn't have any code of conduct book (like bible or quran) and it doesn't have any cenral "command" to regulate it's evalution (bhavat geeta teaches you good and bad in life). It is a big tree. It has a strong root but it doesn't contain the braches to go in one direction. Today if you feel you want to have a different god and give it a different face, you can still change it. Nothing prevents you from doing it. It is a big theory and I don't have words to explain it. So, I will leave it to your imagination. In essense, Hindu socity absorbed/invented new things when time passed by. But still they called themself hindus.


Have you ever invited any muslim to your home ??
We always cry that they demand for Halal... when some one has chaged his faith ..
can you make any veggie to eat non-veg .. he wont eat just because of faith ...

As I said before, I don't know what prompted you to write like this

And if you think XMas shopping is somthing to do with culture,
So what do you think?? X-mas shoping is what ?
Its religious event ?
So as per you .. only christian shop owner should decorate their shops in X-mas.
I have never been in US. Neither I am consulting anyone. ANd I am 99% sure that all shopkeeper must be decorating their shops regardless of their religion.

Damn, why do you say something and when I asked a question you assume something about what I think and come and talk like this?? Did I say it is a religous event or are you saying it is a religous event to decorate the shop? Do you say XMas shopping is religous event and only Chiristians should go and shop there? You are the one implied that XMas shoping is some kind of religous event. Are you saying deepavali/XMas shopping I did all these years are religious events? Read your statement below

You cant say that I wont shop in X-mas cause I am Hindu.

I asked a simple question.. What does "Hindu" to do with shopping??


Its the failure of base of creation of pakistan.

What was the base? could you please explain?
San Su
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
Originally posted by Ravish Kumar:

Do you want to change it to AndColorPocket?
There were, there are, there will be always fanatics.

Do you think a Jew will name a street in Israel as Hitler's street? :roll:
Mahatma Gandhi
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 07, 2003
Posts: 4
i wonder how and where from Sankar Subbiah studied these much of indian history on these days.it's not fair to blame all mughal emporers.they actually contributed to india a lot.india enriched on mughal kingdom.proud monuments of india telling the truth.mughal kings never try to make any distiction on indian people.they actually ruled nicely.king Akber even made a religeon by combining all good values in indian religeons and islam.they ruled india very nicely and contributed to indian culture a lot.
sangh parivar blaming the mughal emporers only because they were muslims.that's the only reason.they are effectievely using this 'muslim' factor for brainwashing infedels.Sankar Subbiah is an excellent example for this.
sangh parivar actually needed a good motivating factor for brainwashing infidels.so they made all good mughal kings as villans.and they are teaching these stories by mixing a lot of emotions to ignite the communal prejudice in young innocent minds.then using them for making communal riots.they are injecting toxins in such a way that young people becoming animals.recently we have seen that alive people burned by fire by these kind of animals.just catching innocent people from public places and pouring petrol over their body and igniting with fire.we have seen this madness.the only fault the killed person done is he born in minority religeon(sometimes killed person never know about mughal kings).it's a fact that sangh parivar is training their followers how to use weapons.why they are training to use weapons?.it's for making communal riots and by using these riots,they are aiming to isolate people.they need brainwashed people for work and vote.they need power.they know that the best way to gain power is igniting communal prejudices and isolating people according to it.
San Su
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
Sangh parivar.. Sangh parivar..
Would you be happy if I say "Muslim rulers are peace loving person and the Islamic rule is the golden age of India"? Twisting the History makes you happy, be happy with it.
Only in India, mass murderer like Aurangazip will be honoured and if anyone question about it they will be called fanatics..
Mahatma Gandhi
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 07, 2003
Posts: 4
Would you be happy if I say "Muslim rulers are peace loving person and the Islamic rule is the golden age of India"? Twisting the History makes you happy, be happy with it.

this is rediculous.why these much communal isolation in thinking?.why i am supporting muslim rulers?.i told only a fact.i have only told that muslim rulers were very nice.they just ruled nicely and only contributed for indian culture.
mughal kings are muslims.sangh parivar needs something to motivate people.they needs some basement for publicly distributing 'trishools'(a weapon) to infedels to make riots.so they are now becoming history teachers and blaming mughal kings becouse mughals were muslims.
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Damn.. I can't make head or tail out of your post. :roll: No offence please..
Sorry for not framing words properly. :-|
What was the base? could you please explain?
I will get back to you .. by wed/thu...
and this time I wish we wont have any communication problem
The only thing I feel that you have never been in touch with any muslim. and on the other hand my I spent my childhood with them.
At that time I did not know the meaning of Muslim and Hindu.
You are saying what I have read. Most people believe this. And the people who believed in this are the people who were never in touch with muslims or they never open themselves to their world.
Even my uncle is in RSS and FYI he holds a strong post in RSS.
So I have been in touch with both philosphies.
Their fear and their non-sense agendas.
Their acceptance and their lectures.
But please tell me .. have you ever been with any muslim ?? Do you know any muslim in your real life and if you know then how much you know him?
OR you have read only in history books abt muslims
and as I have told earlier I have read history text books, novels, stories and discussion with BHU's history lecturer.
So I can bet I know much more than you.
For example you read only that there was Jaziya Tax on Hindu's.
Whereever you read that, that writer does not want you to know that it was removed by Mughal's too.

In other word it was imposed and removed both by Mughals.
But to know what happend to Jaziya Tax, you have to read flop books or sit in library.
You wont find this info in Samna or on Rediff.

You are seeing what you are shown. You have to see what is not being shown.
AW I will try my best to clear your all doubts ....
get back to you soon ....
San Su
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
Originally posted by Mahatma Gandhi:
i told only a fact.i have only told that muslim rulers were very nice.they just ruled nicely

LOL.. I rest my case..
San Su
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
Originally posted by Ravish Kumar:
.............

What does having a muslim friend to do with Indian history? Are you saying if I had talk to any muslim then my perception about Muslim rulers would have been different?
Akbar removed that religious tax. So, it must have been there before right? That means the previous rulers were intolerants and fanatics (man.. asking to remove a name is fanatics, how some one is going to justify to impose islamic law on everyone?) You claim that you know more than me about Indian History. So, I don't need to tell you about Aurangazib. Who else is left after Akbar? Jahankir and Shajahan?
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Sankar Subbiah:

Would you be happy if I say "Muslim rulers are peace loving person and the Islamic rule is the golden age of India"? Twisting the History makes you happy, be happy with it.

I was off..
but what were the problems in Mughal era ?
Does it makes you happy that by dening the fact that there were Muslims ruler and they ruled so well that India was at that time was at peak of all the things.
OR we want to deny just because it was ruled by a Muslim.[wondering]
In monarchy systen best person rules.
Why do you feel shame in accepting that at that time there was no better Hindu king to defeat and rule.
And whats wrong if Muslim ruled us.
Even now first person is a Muslim. So ....
I will be happy if you point out the negatives of Mughal era. Instead of just repeating the same thing again and again. And screaming 'Muslim' word again and agian.
See beyond what is being shown.
willl get back to you ....
[Please dont mind my laguage ]
San Su
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
Originally posted by Ravish Kumar:
[QB]
I was off..

I can provide you lots of links but as usual it will be rejected saying it is hindu fanatic sites or hindu fanatic saying something bad about Muslims. Never mind about it.. If you feel happy about Mugal era and thinks it is a golden age, be happy about it, I can not change your preception. I am hating them not because they are muslims but because of their intolerance. I don't hate the british because they are chiristians but because of the thing they did to this country.
If you are open minded, let me know. I can provide links.
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Are you saying if I had talk to any muslim then my perception about Muslim rulers would have been different?
Oh we are talking abt Muslim rulers.
I thought we were talking abt todays muslims
Akbar removed that religious tax.
Rajia Sultan.. correct the facts..
So, it must have been there before right?
My God .. I am wearing clothes.. so ther must have been time when I was roaming nude.
I want everyone to roam nude now.
What are you saying man ....
Hitler killed jews... so now its jews turn to kill germans...
My great-great grandfather killed 30 men and raped 40 women.
Should I be hanged ?
OK they ruled. Ruled killed lakhs of Hindu. They forced people to accept Islam any thing else you know .. yes they put tax ..
So now what you are saying.. should we take Trishul[trident] and kill everyone..
And by decalring Hindu state do you think that Kashmir will solve ???
What do you mean by saying that declare a Hindu state ??
asking to remove a name is fanatics, how some one is going to justify to impose islamic law on everyone?
OK I assume that it was imposed on all .... I have no justification for that.
So now today, 8th June 2003, what do you want for that imposed islamic rule ??? [Please, atleast give me answer for this que]
So, I don't need to tell you about Aurangazib.
OK agree with you ..
Now what do you want ....
Why dont we attack on Sri lanka... after all they kidnapped Sita ji in Satyug.
Who else is left after Akbar? Jahankir and Shajahan?
Babar
Humanyu
Sher Shah Suri[He does not come under Mughal emperors]
Rajia Sultan
Dara Shikoh
Bahadurshah Jafar

That means the previous rulers were intolerants and fanatics .
Agree with you, they were intolerance and fanatic... why as being a hindu, you cant accept that at that time there was no better Hindu king was available.
ANd yes .. we were ruled by muslims.
whats wrong in accepting it and for your sake I assume that Hindus were tortured in that time
Now question comes what to do now ??
What can be done on 8th June 2003 ??
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Sankar Subbiah:
[QB]If you feel happy about Mugal era and thinks it is a golden age, be happy about it, I can not change your preception.
If you are open minded, let me know. I can provide links.
Please provide.[PM me]
I always love to see both sides.
BTW if you regular visitors of such fanatic sites than if you remember then even ShivSena's site provided a mpeg which showed murder of Pearl. And after that 10 more links of Islamic intolerance.
Would you believe it what ShivSena's site was showing as Pearl murder. It was not Pearl murder at all but it was clip by some Teacher in europe who killed his son and filmed it.
I dont understand even if I say that OK Mughal era was not golden era. Hindus suffered like hell.
How does it matter today ?
What is the relevance of it today ??
Should I kill all muslims ?
Should we impose all Hindu's law on Muslim ?
Should we ban Cow slaughter ?
Should we say that now onwards Indian Muslim women will put sindoor ??
What we are looking for ?? What do we want ??
The way you said to Sammer that go and ask Pakistani or B Deshi.
Why the f$%^ he should go and ask a Pakistani or B Deshi ... why cant you tell him the facts which you want me to tell.
Again .. OK you be happy Mughal era was bad for Indian history and specialy Hindus
So now... what next ??
what is plan of action ??
Nagaraj Dixit
Greenhorn

Joined: May 30, 2003
Posts: 10
We should start do what ever policy(Democracy) in india. If women want to strip naked we should allow them to do so. Then we know who looks good when stripped Hindhu or Muslim. That will be hard as men wont allow women to do so india, as Indian men are the most Egoistist men in the world.
Hindhu, Muslim or Christian you have the same elements when you are naked.
Pakka Desi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 11, 2002
Posts: 177
Ravish,
1. I did not say Hindustan == Hiduh+sthan. I said, Hindusthan == hinduh + sthan.
2. By which angle are you saying Mogul period was a golden period of India. If it were so, why don't you call Bharat as Akbar :roll: Mogul period was the worst period in India history. Right before Babar to Aurangzeb, they forced conversion, they posed additional taxes on Hindus, they destroyed temples and built mosques over them and the worst part was because of all this they divided the population. And today we are here discussing this. Have you forgot what Ghauri did to the temple of Somnath? to Prithviraj Chauhan? What Akbar did to the Rajputs? What Aurangzeb did to the Marathas? Come on, how in the world can you say that they ruled well.
It was because of their stupid rule because of which India was at the bottom of everything. During the Indian kings, Art, Science and Technology and Medicine were the best in the world. What happened in the Mogul rule? Tajmahal, Redfort. And what? While the west was having Industrial Revolution, Aurangjeb (or some other Mogul ruler, I forgot) was shifting his capital to Daulatabad. That moron moved the whole population of Delhi to Daulatabad (1000KMS), the area which had no water. There was abosolutely no sceince and technology left in India durin Mogul rule. The land that produced Aryabhatta, Varahmihir, Charak, Shushrut etc. could not produce a single guy in whole 400 years. People who literaly tought Alzebra to Arabs could not do any innovation in the Mogul rule. That's the reason we are lagging behind the world right now.

3. I am not sure what you are trying to say in your posts. You've written a lot talk but I am unable to make out what you are trying to prove or disprove. But, one thing that I liked was your question, "what can be done now.".
So here is my answer:
1. Muslim leaders should accept the mistreatment of the local population.
2. They should stop taking directions from outside the country. Rever the land you live in and the land that feeds you, not the one that you've never seen.
3. Accept that muslim rulers destroyed thousands of Hindu temples small and big.
4. Remove those pro-pak Imams from their posts.
5. As a matter of good will, gift the three main temples to the Hindus: Ayodhya, Mathura, and Kashi. These three are the holiest of all the places for Hindus and giving them back to Hindus would mean a lot to them. Hindus and Muslims should jointly pray in the rest.
Until this is done, I am afraid there will be no peace in the country.

==============================
Mahatma Gandhi, please get your facts straight before posting crap. And don't use that name. You don't deserve it.
Glen Cai
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 24, 2002
Posts: 121
Originally posted by Srini Madgula:
1.India never invaded any country in her last 1000 years of
history.

India invaded China in 1962 although the war
was ended badly for India. One regular army
division not only expelled several most elite
Indian brigades but also entered India for a short period of time.
The Chinese withdrew on its own.


"I, a universe of atoms, an atom in the universe." - Richard Feynman
 
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