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Your naming policy is flagrantly unfair

 
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I just wanted to bring to your attention that there are many cultures in the world with names that don't conform to your format of "Given name" first and "Familiy name" second.
I really resent the fact that I am being forced to reverse the order of my name in order to join JavaRanch. Imagine someone with the name of "John Smith" is being forced to be called "Smith John" on the Ranch?
My name may not be important to you but it is very important to me.
Kuang ZhiZhao
 
Anonymous
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Exactly
 
Sheriff
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Some people register as
FamilyName,
GivenName
The order of the names is not a problem. But you must register with the two names separated by a space.
 
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The JavaRanch software doesn't care if you swapped your first name with the last name. It is not so intelligent
The rule says your name should have two parts. You are free to chose your first name and last name.
[This message has been edited by Ajith Kallambella (edited October 24, 2001).]
 
Anonymous
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I totally agree with all of you and I noticed that there are people on the ranch not following your policy. But before an user can register, one has to agree to "For your user name, use a first name, space and a last name" .
Are you saying that people should just ignore your official policy? Then what is the point of displaying that in big block letters?

Kuang ZhiZhao
 
"The Hood"
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What we are saying is that you can put your last name as the first entry if you want, but everyone will probably call you by your last name then.
The naming policy is there for several reasons. One is to promote a professional environment. But also to help set the ground rules for being polite to each other. If we don't KNOW which is your first or your last - how can we use them correctly. The policy just says that we are going to treat the first name listed as your first name, whether it is or not.
Otherwise I would have to go around saying "Cindy Glass - Cindy is my first name" all the time.
 
Cindy Glass
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PS: You might consider this a case of "When in Rome - do as the Romans do".
This is an American website. Amazingly we follow American customs and traditions.
 
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The amazing thing you are a relatively new poster and posted in the right forum.
 
Anonymous
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Cindy,
We should all learn to tolerate each other. Bigotry has no place in our society.

Kuang ZhiZhao
 
Cindy Glass
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Actually, following an American custom is NOT really bigotry. If you don't LIKE our customs (does that make YOU bigoted?) then use a fake name. We just ask that you follow the simple rules.
 
Greenhorn
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Kuang or ZhiZhao whichever...If you are upset about the naming convention you have a chance to display your name however you choose in your signature at the bottom of each post. However, I notice that you display it exactly as your screen name? I wonder why?
 
Trailboss
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Take a look at http://www.javaranch.com/name.jsp
Marilyn, I don't like the last name, comma, space, first name thing. I've been disabling accounts with commas.
I think we have very few rules here, and this is the only one that I really emphasize.
It is important to me that folks follow this rule.
 
mister krabs
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Originally posted by Kuang ZhiZhao2:
I really resent the fact that I am being forced to reverse the order of my name in order to join JavaRanch. Imagine someone with the name of "John Smith" is being forced to be called "Smith John" on the Ranch?

Notice that it says first name followed by last name. It does not mention given name or family name. First name is the name that comes first. Last name is the name that comes last. If your family name comes first then put it first. If your family name comes last then put it last. No one will caare. Just be aware that if you enter your name as "Smith John" everyone is going to call you "Smith".
But this is an American web site running on American web servers and it is owned by an American. Even the format of the site is of the American West. Why would anyone "resent" having to play along with American rules? No one is forcing you to use this site. There are many other sites you can visit and use which probably wouldn't care if you registered as "Hot Java Programmer" or "GI Joe". We do care because we want a professional site.
 
Anonymous
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Bartenders, This is a Java web-site. Would you please keep it that way. If you feel compelled to express your personal view on a certain way of life, feel free to join the Meaningless Drivel forum. Don't turn this into a political discussion. People come here to learn more about Java, not your interpretation of a certain way of life.
Kuang raised a valid point. If you don't agree with it, fine! Just try to deal with it in a professional and matured way. Maybe a culture sensitivity workshop may help.
Keith
 
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I like the naming policy. My vote.
and my name can't fit it right.
but like it.
 
Wanderer
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Keith, Kuang ZhiZhao's "valid point" that you refer to is a simple misunderstanding. "Kuang ZhiZhao" and "ZhiZhao Kuang" are both equally valid names are far as JavaRanch is concerned. Kuang ZhiZhao may use whichever he/she prefers. If Kuang ZhiZhao wold prefer to be referred to as "Kuang", he/she may sign that name at the bottom of the post, and then we'll know what he/she prefers. There is nothing insensitive about the policy - only in the assumptions that people make when reading the name. The simple fact is that whatever Kuang ZhiZhao writes for a name, some people in the world (like most Westerners) will assume that the first name is how they would prefer to be addressed, and others (many Asians, for example) will assume that the last name is how they prefer to be addressed. Unless you indicate otherwise, as Justin suggested.
- Jim (who has occasionally been called "Yingst" by people who don't know any better, but has somehow survived.)
[This message has been edited by Jim Yingst (edited October 25, 2001).]
 
Marilyn de Queiroz
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
But this is an American web site running on American web servers and it is owned by an American.


Whether it is run by an American, by an Englishman, or by a German is irrelevant. The point is that the owner of the site has requested that you register with a firstName a space a lastName. Depending on your culture, your last name may be thought to be your first name by the person reading it. Since the world has different cultures, there is nothing we can do about that. You can help people call you by your preferred name by signing your posts. You can even have a "signature on file" (see Options where you create your posts).
 
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Well this thread is completely ridiculous. If JavaRanch told me to name myself "DipStick Jones" and to sign all my posts as "Skeeter" I'd do it. And I'd still try to post quality answers to people's questions. If I want to use this wonderful site, I'll do what they ask me to do, a small price to pay. After all, it is their site, and if I didn't like it, I'd not use the site. How hard is that?
My 2 Cents,
Skeeter.....I mean Mike
 
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I just wanted to add to Cindy's


PS: You might consider this a case of "When in Rome - do as the Romans do".


that it is, to my knowledge, is quite intercultural, i.e. common, i.e. abstract superclass, that is not mutable.
Then I think it is a technical problem. I think in future they will find fun permitting registration in heirogliephs...
Any introduction to Java says about it ....
 
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I agree with Mike Bruesch that this thread is ridiculous. We are already in the 21st Century and yet, some people are still firmly stuck in their 19th Century mindset. I still remember the days when the "whites only" exclusive clubs were ubiquitous. I am sure people at the time would have said the same thing, "If you don't like it here, you can get out" (or, for some people, they could not even get in). They didn't think it was either insensitive or discriminatory.
I don't see how it is a professional, or even acceptable, behavior to tell people that their real name may not look professional enough. This is ridiculous. Maybe we should change the name of this place to "JavaRanch where your real name may not look professional enough".
 
Greenhorn
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He he he. There have been a couple of trolls on this thread, and several indignant, irate, and highly vocal dupes, as well. They all are very good at calling others racist while ignoring the delicious irony of their own racist remarks.
That being said, perhaps people like "Guest" will stop trying to fan the flames and start thinking reasonably and logically for a change.
Do you call Java racist because it tries to enforce rules? That's absurd, yes?
Do you call governments racist because they make murder and other crimes illegal? Of course not.
Then why do you call someone else racist for having policies in place to make things go smoothly? That, as Spock says, does not compute.
In my travels, I was often in situations where I had to list my given name last and my surname first, which is the opposite of my native culture's custom.
Far more than that, I had to obey laws and customs that were utterly foreign to me. Did I cry "racist!" every time I had to bow to my boss? Heck no! Because I'm not an idiot.
When I was in Japan, I tried to behave in a manner suited to the customs of that country. I actually had quite a good time there, too.
When I was in Spain, I closed my eyes and prayed that the cab driver would not get me killed. It seems to have worked. But I still managed to obey customs that were not my own without too much difficulty, and I never bore any ill feelings towards my hosts.
Now, if you want to be professional, you will realize what the customs are in this board and decide if you can follow them in order to benefit.
I suspect that one's name order being reversed is not too large a burden. Just ask Yoko Ono, or, should I say, Ono Yoko?
 
paul wheaton
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There are a lot of different Java sites with forums. I have a particular vision of how I would like to see forums run, so I did it with my forums. I think the results have been quite good. A lot of folks like the recipe we have here.
There are other sites that use a different recipe and it sounds like those sites would be a better fit for some folks.
I suppose that if an individaul were certain that my ideas suck, and the ideas on the other sites suck, and their idea is the kinf of all ideas, they can set up their own site and see the crowds come and experience their improved thinking.
In the mean time, I have read nothing here that changes my mind.
 
Enthuware Software Support
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I agree with Paul Wheaton on this. Long back I opposed the naming policy but very soon I started realizing the importance of it.
One suggestion I would like to make is to generate an error page when sombody tries to register without proper name. Another one is to allow having more than 2 worded named because 2 worded names get used up very fast. And the people have to append "1" or "2" as in "John Doe1" etc.
Kuang ZhiZhao2, I agree with your point too that different cultures have different naming styles. But I have yet to see a culture where people only have one worded name. They may have 2, 3 or (in Southern parts of India) even 4!
Anyway, I am curious to know your real name as it is difficult for me to imagine it not fitting into the 2+ word format.

-Paul
 
Jim Yingst
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We do allow more than two names, actually - we should probably update the explanation to clarify that two names is the minumum; additional names or initials are OK as well.
Like Paul Anil, I didn't particularly agree with the name policy originally either, but I now agree that it helps the overall tone of the site.
[This message has been edited by Jim Yingst (edited November 05, 2001).]
 
Thomas Paul
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I think that we should update the UBB software (or go with Jive) and then hack the software to suit our needs. It isn't as if we update the software constantly. And there are enough of us who are Perl gurus that we can hack UBB to do whatever we need.
 
Ranch Hand
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We had an "xxx Killers" obvious fake and offensive name who tried to join our SCJD Study Group Project Team. I don't want dealing with Killers, and rejected him.
I saw an "Adolf Hitler" posted somewhere, and absolutely refused to answer his/her questions. Another one was a "supergod".
That is kind of my unofficial naming policy.

Thanks!
Roseanne
Join our SCJD Study Group when certified

 
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the person that expressed his/her/he-she (hehe) displeasure with this very simple naming policy is the probably the same type of person that goes into the Hacking Chat Room on the Yahoo! website, yet can't answer simple computing questions like "how do I cut and paste", or the person who goes into the Linux chat room and wins every OS argument by saying that "Linux has more free (albeit crappy) apps than Windows". just sign your name -- i don't care, close your eyes type lots of characters, hit space, type lots of characters, hit ENTER, you're done. voila! jeez
 
Guennadiy VANIN
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What is bad in that? hitting keys. It is what all Internet abt, I cannot say that someone is solving here serious problems or that ratio (time+effort)/usefullness is optimal. Just show-off
 
Thomas Paul
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Originally posted by G Vanin:
I cannot say that someone is solving here serious problems

Some people might consider their careers to be serious.

[This message has been edited by Thomas Paul (edited November 14, 2001).]
 
Guennadiy VANIN
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I think it is unfair but not blatantly
 
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Originally posted by Kuang ZhiZhao2:
But before an user can register, one has to agree to "For your user name, use a first name, space and a last name" .


Where does middle name go?
Faisal
 
Greenhorn
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For obvious fake names, the naming policy is a good thing, but a person's name is a part of their identity. To dictate to someone how their name must be represented, and have a 'take it or leave it' type of attitude doesn't seem very professional to me.
Of course, I *am* an American, so my name *does* fall into the Firstname, Lastname pattern, even when I do use my first and middle initials as my first name, so the naming policy doesn't really affect me. *shrug* just my opinion...I love the site and am in the process of trying to teach myself Java. It is fun, and they tell me I'm finding it easy because I'm a C++ programmer. Thanks for a good site.
 
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I can't see any problem if people "sign" their
posts with the name with which they would like
to be addressed. Sometimes it's not so clear from
the displayed name which is the "socially correct" handle.
-Barry (also known as "Hey you there!")
 
J.D. Walker
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Interesting. You didn't address my point, but you did provide a workaround. I like the way you're thinking about it.
 
Barry Gaunt
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JayDee, Sorry I am prone to ramble...
For instance, I have also observed that many immigrants to America or other european countries very quickly change their names to the "european" form. I don't think it happens the other way around so very often.
-Barry (also known as BeeEffGee)
 
High Plains Drifter
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Originally posted by J.D. Walker:
(A) person's name is a part of their identity. To dictate to someone how their name must be represented, and have a 'take it or leave it' type of attitude doesn't seem very professional to me.


What would you suggest?
 
J.D. Walker
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Originally posted by Michael Ernest:

What would you suggest?


Well, in the first case, if someone's posting something like Ben Dover, or Les Bian, or Dick Hurtz...sanction away..those are obvious attempts at humor and not in line with the stated goal of being professional.
The other part of my suggestion is a change in viewpoint. I don't see a strict regulation of how people's names are formulated (providing it is some form of their real name) to add professionalism.
I'm a case in point. Under your policy, I could conceivably be sanctioned because I listed my first name as J.D. rather than Jay. How does that actually add to the professional air? It doesn't. I would venture to assert that me listing my name as J.D. even adds to the professional air because the fact that my name is Jay Walker, something subject to ridicule for being amusing, isn't right up in everyone's face every time I post.
 
Cindy Glass
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Soooooooo . . .
What would you suggest?
 
Thomas Paul
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This is just silly. The owner of the site wants first name - last name. Anyone who is uncomfortable with following the guideline can use the Sun forums. We have had this guideline for 2 years so we are unlikely to change it now.
 
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On a realted but not very pertinent note... my brother once had a friend in high school whos name was Les Waite. I'm fairly sure it was Less too, not Lestor or something else. The best thing was that he worked at a McDonalds. We were in a different McDonalds once that had a really long line, after a few minutes I told my brother and Les that we should have gone to the other McDonalds becasue they had 'Les Waite'. Get it...?? Les Waite..... less wait.....
He did give me credit with making the first orginal joke on his name in quite a few years.
 
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