Why certify?

[Bob Deer]

With tools like Eclipse, WebSphere, and other UI items, why is certification needed? These tools will catch errors and let you know if something can be done or not.
I am completely new to Java, but not programming. I just don't see any point to certifications. Seems to me that "street smarts" hold more value than "book smarts".
Bob

[Yosi Hendarsjah]

At least you have something to put in your resume.
I agree that experience is worth more than just a certificate. But if a hard evidence of your capability is needed, you have to have one.

[Bert Bates]

You'll find lots of threads on this topic if you search...
I think one of my favorite reasons to get certified is that lots of people say (including me), that studying for a certification introduces them to language features and language design intentions that they never knew before. In effect, their broadened knowledge makes their code cleaner, more debuggable, etc. There's something about studying for a certification that makes most people focus more and learn more than simply "I'm studying to get better"...

[Kathy Sierra]

Howdy,
We agree that street smarts is better than cert smarts. But... the problem with having ONLY street smarts is that not everyone bothers to learn new things until they actually need them. What we consider the main advantage of certification is that you are forced to study a lot more of the technology or APIs, rather than learning only the things you've had to use on your recent projects. Some programmers are good about doing this anyway, and in that case certification might not be as valuable, especially if they were not looking for a job or promotion. But for some us, we do not go out of our way to study things we are not using on current projects. The problem with that approach (and it has unfortunately always been MY approach) is that when it comes time to do something new, and you do not know about other aspects of the technology, you might use your same old solutions to new problems, even though a better approach exists... except you do not know about it.
If you are really disciplined and willing to study beyond the scope of what you need to do your job, then you may not consider this as important. I can tell you that over the years I have seen some pretty stupid code from programmers who had not studied for the exam, where I thought, "Why didn't they just use...?" Although we see this perhaps MORE with other technologies like EJB or Servlets/JSP.
Then again, if I had not been *forced* to take the exam, as part of my employment at Sun, I probably would have been one of those writing really stupid code that reinvents wheels or takes the least efficient approach. Thank goodness y'all never saw the original code for the Rules Roundup. That was my first java program, and I wrote it *before* I took the exam. Yikes! I doubt that even *I* could read the code and figure out what the heck I was thinking... I'm still damn proud of my double-buffered Java 1.02 cows however
There are many reasons for taking an exam... but I believe *studying* for the exam is more important than actually *passing* the certification. But there are many employers who do value the certification. There are plenty of others who do not. Overall, though, Sun's exams are considered very valuable in the industry, primarily because they are difficult! Much harder to get an SCJP than, say, a Microsoft developer cert.
We have a ton of large customers at Sun who insist on sending as many of their programmers as they can through Sun certifications. Some employers, especially those that provide services to other clients, simply like to say, "All of our developers are Sun-certified..." because it is more easily verified than saying, "They have all had three years of experience." Some programmers have three years of 'street smarts', but doing only one kind of task over and over again.
Personally, I think the BEST reason to get certified is because of the lovely selection of certification books with which you can study (you should get one of each!), and because that little lapel pin that they send you is a true fashion statement anywhere in the world.
cheers,
Kathy

[Valentin Crettaz]

Originally posted by Bert Bates:
You'll find lots of threads on this topic if you search...
I think one of my favorite reasons to get certified is that lots of people say (including me), that studying for a certification introduces them to language features and language design intentions that they never knew before. In effect, their broadened knowledge makes their code cleaner, more debuggable, etc. There's something about studying for a certification that makes most people focus more and learn more than simply "I'm studying to get better"...

Some of these discussions are given below:
Is Certification really worth it
Opinions on SCJP2 test
Also, the following article might be of interest:
You said "Certification"?

[K Ville]

I'd like to add a good reason in getting certified based on my personal experience. When I was studying programming and Java for the first time in the classroom, I simply mimicked my instructor's codes until I get to the project-making. On the second semester where J2EE was taught, I was lost! JavaBeans was difficult, and EJB was more difficult to understand. The syntaxes were getting weirder and weirder. Until I realized I would prepare for the exam because it is based on the fundamentals that will serve as your foundation towards further learning. In the process of my preparation, I have learned that the knowledge that I gained from the classroom was only 60%! 40% came from SCJP preparation. It smoothened the rough surfaces of my previous learnings. Presently, I'm still relying on it for future learnings on at least some of the vast array of the Java APIs already existing and yet to come.

[Ko Ko Naing]

Originally posted by K Ville:
In the process of my preparation, I have learned that the knowledge that I gained from the classroom was only 60%! 40% came from SCJP preparation.

It's good that 60% is from your class...
If you see my ratio, u would be surprised....
10% from classroom, when I was in my first semester, first year, the first step towards BSCS program in the university...
Another 90% from self-study for SCJP and I can say that almost all of my Java knowledge come from studying for SCJP exam....
Just wanna share my experience on evaluation of Studying for a certificate...

[luc ndabaneze]

Originally posted by Bob Deer:
With tools like Eclipse, WebSphere, and other UI items, why is certification needed? These tools will catch errors and let you know if something can be done or not.
I am completely new to Java, but not programming. I just don't see any point to certifications. Seems to me that "street smarts" hold more value than "book smarts".
Bob

hello to all
i am a java rancher , i have been meaning to ask you about this, i am fairly new to java , albeit i studied it one semester at school,just as i finished my university i realised it was the thing i would like to do as job
i 've been reading kathy's book for 2 months and plan to take the exam sometime in jan or feb, , i have no experience and hope getting certified will help my job search
do you think this a wise move?.
[ December 17, 2003: Message edited by: luc ndabaneze ]

[Ko Ko Naing]

Originally posted by luc ndabaneze:
do you think this a wise move?.

For me, u know, I study for a certification on a technology, if I want to learn that... After passing the exam, I got both certification and knowledge... Which means that u buy one and get two...
I think that's a really wise move, luc... Just go ahead...