10 g App Server versus Weblogic versus Websphere

[Giselle Dazzi]

Does Oracle 10 App server supply all functionalities, as far as J2EE goes, as Weblogic and Websphere do ?

[Erin Mulder]

As far as J2EE goes, yes. All three are certified as 100% J2EE 1.3 compliant. That means that any pure Java/J2EE code will run fine on any of them.

The differences lie in configuration, tools, performance, ease-of-use and lots of other value-added features. For example:

* some app servers are designed to have you manually edit
server-specific deployment descriptors, whereas others like you
to configure those attributes through a GUI tool

* different CMP implementations may be faster or slower in various
scenarios

* WebSphere, WebLogic and OAS all offer specialized IDEs (WSAD,
WebLogic Workshop and JDeveloper respectively) that have lots
of different strengths and weaknesses

* some servers offer a lot of different clustering schemes
(in-memory session replication, single-backup session replication,
database-based replication) while others are more limited

* some servers integrate particularly well with other specific
enterprise products (e.g. Plumtree may run particularly well on
one of them and not so well on others)

[Giselle Dazzi]

Thanks Erin, I'll look further into it. I've been using BEA Weblogic and I do like it but I'm about to start a new project and will have a chance to choose a different server if I feel it's appropriate.
Are there any dependencies on having the Oracle App server and having Oracle database ? Hope not...

[Nicholas Cheung]

Are there any dependencies on having the Oracle App server and having Oracle database ?

I guess the dependencies would be minimum, however, I believe that, if Oracle10g AS works with Oracle DB will have a better performance than that works with other DBs, like DB2, SQL server, etc.

Nick

[Nicholas Cheung]

As far as J2EE goes, yes. All three are certified as 100% J2EE 1.3 compliant

How about J2EE 1.4, and the portal support? IBM is now try to support part of J2EE 1.4, like JSF and Web Services, as well as Portlet support, could Oracle10g AS support them as well?

Nick

[Nicholas Cheung]

some servers offer a lot of different clustering schemes
(in-memory session replication, single-backup session replication,
database-based replication) while others are more limited

In fact, how do you compare the Grid and RAC features in Oracle10g AS to other application servers, like WAS or WebLogic?

Nick

[Pradeep bhatt]

Nick,

Oracle 10g App server is not grid enabled like oracle 10 g database. There is developer version of Oracle 10g which is J2EE 1.4 compliant.

Having worked on all the 3 servers I would say that Weblogic and Websphere are certainly more stable products than Oracle app servers.

[Nicholas Cheung]

Oracle 10g App server is not grid enabled like oracle 10 g database. There is developer version of Oracle 10g which is J2EE 1.4 compliant.

Thus, the core architecture of Oracle10g AS does not aim to support Grid? It seems bad as I feel Oracle did very well in the 10g DB.

Having worked on all the 3 servers I would say that Weblogic and Websphere are certainly more stable products than Oracle app servers.

I think so too. Oracle10g AS maybe a good choice if working with Oracle DBs.

Nick

[David Ulicny]

I think so too. Oracle10g AS maybe a good choice if working with Oracle DBs.

Why it is so? Some special features?

[Nicholas Cheung]

Why it is so? Some special features?

In fact, there is no evidence for that. But I expected that, for example, WAS works better under IBM AIX than MS Windows, rite? Because the products from the same vendor usually have some *private* tuning and *negotiation* so that the system performance would be better.

Nick

[Pradeep bhatt]

"Oracle AS works better with Oracle database" -Looks to me like it is Oracle marketing strategy. Weblogic + oracle db has been used in many environments w/o any problems.

[Nicholas Cheung]

The 2 statements are not contradicted to each other.

All application servers could work well with Oracle, but still, using Oracle AS with Oracle DB might give better performance. As there might be some bugs/issues that outsiders dont know while insiders know. Due to this information asymetric, using the same line of products seems better. Just like the case that you wont develop WAS J2EE applications using JDeveloper.

Nick

[David Ulicny]

I'm working with WAS + DB2 and I couldn't see better performance

[Nicholas Cheung]

I'm working with WAS + DB2 and I couldn't see better performance

What is your brenchmark?

Nick

[David Ulicny]

There is a lot of problems, with CLOB, with long running queries, with drivers. Better performance was not right. I haven't any benchmark. I only think there is no advantage, I think.

[Nicholas Cheung]

For those data access part, I am not sure. But for handshaking/connection issues, I belive there may be some tricks to have a better performance.

Nick

[Lasse Koskela]

If you're using the same JDBC driver (provided by Oracle) to connect to Oracle DB from both WebLogic/WebSphere and Oracle9iAS/Oracle10gAS, there shouldn't be any difference in the handshake performance. The place where Oracle10gAS might gain some performance advantage is in the application server's DataSource implementation -- recognizing that a given pool is configured to use Oracle's own JDBC driver, they could in theory use some hidden API calls by using a different "PooledConnection" implementation for Oracle and non-Oracle Connection instances.

However, this is all just theory.

[Pradeep bhatt]

I dont think anyone should buy a app server if it claims to perform better with oracle database. I am curious to know how much of a performance gain will it be if Oracle app server is used for oracle db. Aren't there other factors to make a decision?

I am also not impressed by the Oracle 10g AS documentation. Does anyone disagree. Oracle database docs are pretty good though.

[Nicholas Cheung]

If you're using the same JDBC driver (provided by Oracle) to connect to Oracle DB from both WebLogic/WebSphere and Oracle9iAS/Oracle10gAS, there shouldn't be any difference in the handshake performance.

I guess Oracle10g AS can talk with Oracle DB using OCI instead of JDBC. This may help in gaining a better performance.

Nick

[Nicholas Cheung]

I dont think anyone should buy a app server if it claims to perform better with oracle database.

I guess no vendor will say that "our product works better on certain platforms". Usually, they will say "our product works well on all platforms".

I am curious to know how much of a performance gain will it be if Oracle app server is used for oracle db. Aren't there other factors to make a decision?

Just like what I mention, Oracle AS may use OCI to connect with Oracle DB, while WAS may use CLI to connect with DB2. It really depends on how vendors do the implementation. Also, we dont know will there be any *non-known* issues that makes the co-operation between systems difficult.

I am also not impressed by the Oracle 10g AS documentation. Does anyone disagree. Oracle database docs are pretty good though.

Oracle AS dont have much *detail* info, very prelimiary I feel. Oracle DB is a bit better, but still not enough for preparing exams.

If possible, I really hope that Kathy and Bert might consider to write the book HF OCP.

Nick

[Pradeep bhatt]

Oracle AS poor documentation turns me away from the product.

[Nicholas Cheung]

Oracle AS poor documentation turns me away from the product.

This might be one of the problems that OAS does not popular in the market. However, as it is just released for awhile, we *hope* that Oracle might provide more documents for us. Otherwise...

Nick

[Lasse Koskela]

Originally posted by Nicholas Cheung:
I guess Oracle10g AS can talk with Oracle DB using OCI instead of JDBC. This may help in gaining a better performance.

True, but that very same OCI driver can be used in WebLogic, WebSphere as well.

[Nicholas Cheung]

True, but that very same OCI driver can be used in WebLogic, WebSphere as well.

That's true. Thus, I guess Oracle might know some problems (or backdoor) to improve the connectivity or anything, while other vendors dont know. Of course, Oracle wont tell those vendors these backdoors, and this should happen to all vendors.

So, I believe that, if the 2 products from the same vendors cant work better than they are worked with other products, the products have no hopes at all.

Nick