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Java Software Devlopers needed Jr/Mid Lvl

Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Due you live and breath Java ??
We are a well financed B2B startup needing to hire 12-15 developers by June. Our locations are in Dallas, Texas and soon Jersey City, New Jersey.
Skills needed:
Java, Javascript, HTML, ASP/JSP.
OOP knowledge
JDBC or database knowledge
UML is a plus
Weblogic plus
Junior positions (~10 slots):
6-18months paid experience in Java or C++; or
Will consider SCJP with portfolio and good smarts also
24K-32K/yr + benefits
Mid positions (~5 slots):
18-36 months paid experience in Java or C++
32K-45K + benefits
Can be higher for super stars.
Also required of all applicants!
-Must have Bachelors in CS/Math/EE or other rigorous major (not MIS/CIS)- no exception. Prefer Masters.
-Must know computer science fundamentals
-Serious professionals, hard work ethic only please
***We SPONSOR H1***
Big plus if you can interview in Texas or New Jersey
No relocation assistance
Submit resume in confidence in pure TEXT format. Considerations made approximatley March-May time period.
m_favin@uomail.com
Martin Favin
Ic3, Inc.
John Coxey
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 24, 2000
Posts: 503
Martin:
Good luck getting a programmer with both SCJP & BS-Comp Sci for
$32K/yr in New Jersey. You are about US$13K - US$18K too low.
Johnny
(jpcoxey@aol.com)



John Coxey
Evansville, Indiana, USA
Vladan Radovanovic
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 20, 2000
Posts: 216
I completely agree.
Actually those numbers are insulting.
Vladan
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Hey Man...
r u crazy to get Java guys with such a low salary?? Lemme know if you get people with that salary.. I'll also start a company
By the way you need to pay at least 40 k to sponsor H1.
Mazhar
John Coxey
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 24, 2000
Posts: 503
For those of you overseas:
I can tell you that apartments in New Jersey start at $600-$700 per month...more like $800-$1000 per month.
The property taxes on a house are 3 times what they are in most states. A $200K house will have around $8K-$11K per year just in property taxes.
Lucent paid me almost triple (with their bonus), what this guy is offering his junior level people. Not because I was that good (just out of college), but because New Jersey is incredibly expensive. Not as bad as Silicon Valley, but close.
Johnny
(jpcoxey@aol.com)
M Prembroke
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 03, 2000
Posts: 56
Those are low for New Jersey but not as bad for the south like Texas. H1s can be hired for very low salary with some fudging, so that's no problem. It depends on how jobs are defined.
If you search this site that lists Visa based hiring, just search Aerotek, inc. They have many "Systems Analysis and Programming" people working for around $32,000. Some are higher but many are under $40,000. http://www.zazona.com/ShameH1B/VisaDBQuery.asp
Congress has more than doubled the visa cap so there will be lots more people ready to take such jobs at these wages.

The market is changing a lot with so many companies laying off and in hiring freeze. As the economy gets worse, I doubt this company will have problems filling those spots (either US Citizen or H1).

Kevin Yip
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 17, 2000
Posts: 110
Salary is insulting?... Well, it all depends on supply and demand. If the java market is really worse, good luck to those people who have already entered the market with high pay. There are always people who are willing to just grasp a job by all means under such circumstances.
However, IMHO, dissatisfied employees will leave company as soon as they get opportunities. If a company doesn't bet enough on its employees, it'll not survive long.
JiaPei Jen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 19, 2000
Posts: 1309
I am U.S. citizen and have a job. Supply and demand theory has a ground. But I cannot agree on hiring H1 with lower salary. It is against American spirit ( It so happened that I just watched the documentary about Abe Lincoln on TV two days ago. ) and Christianity. I am going to pray for the company you are representing for God's mercy and forgiveness.
Udayan Naik
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 18, 2000
Posts: 135
So somebody,tell me guys,should i apply or not?I am currently looking for a H1B sponsor.
I am an Bachelor in Electronics , a SCJP with 97%,and have about 21 months working experience(about 18 months in Java).But though the salary offered translates to good money in Indian Rupees,it doesn't really sound great in US $.
I have (to a degree) all of the skills mentioned except WebLogic and ASP.
Give me some advice.
Thanks for reading the post.


Udayan Naik<BR>Sun Certified Programmer for the Java 2 Platform
Sanjaybala
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 20, 2001
Posts: 6
dear Martin
i am B.E. in Computers from a reputed institute in India and have got 18 months of experience. i have skills in C/C++,java (jdk1.2, Jdbc , Servlets,Beans,JSP), HTML,javascript, Oracle. I have cleared My SCJP2 with 77%
i am interested in your offer as a java developer .
i am located at pune , India .
please mail me back on : sanjaybala@rediffmail.com
regards ,
Sanjay.
Peter Tran
Bartender

Joined: Jan 02, 2001
Posts: 783
Udayan/Sanjaybala,
Be careful what you ask for. At least Martin was upfront and stated:

No relocation assistance

Unless you guys can get a loan or pay your way over, it's going to be mighty expensive to travel from India to the US unless Martin can guarantee that he'll keep you around long enough for you to cover your traveling expenses. Before you jump, make sure the company bringing you over will cover relocation expenses. If not, then make sure they can guaratee to keep you around long enough for you to cover those expenses that you need to pay yourself. Lastly, make sure they don't make you pay back any relocation expenses for whatever reason.
-Peter
Peter Tran
Bartender

Joined: Jan 02, 2001
Posts: 783
I forgot to add, that the salary is too low for NJ. I went to school there and a company was offering me in the $40s out of college and this was 8 years ago! Jersey City practically borders New York City on the NJ side (across the Hudson). I had friends living there, and were paying a good $1500/month for a 2-bedroom apt. The rent is even higher now, since a lot of people working in NYC lives in Jersey City or surrounding towns, because it's so freaking expensive to live in NYC.
As for Dallas, TX. the salary offered is probably a little lower than average. Dallas, TX. is probably the most expensive metropolitian city in TX to live/work in. Austin would be next, followed by Houston
Given his rate, Martin wouldn't be able to afford senior level people. Given that his company is a startup, he can't afford to pay a higher salary (got to keep the cash burn rate down). But a company with only mid to junior level employees isn't good either.
-Peter

[This message has been edited by Peter Tran (edited February 27, 2001).]
Sanjaybala
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 20, 2001
Posts: 6
Hi Peter,
thanks for your advice, my eagerness for a US Job is due to the fact that I rejected an offer through an indian consultant, six months back when US offers were a plenty, but now I feel that i had made a wrong decision, the US offers have dried up, i had initially rejected the offer, because I thought with a few more months of experience I would be able to bargain for a better offer, but now I am not sure, I can only hope that the US economy improves, and Jobs are there for everyone.

Sanjay.
Sathvathsan Sampath
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 03, 2000
Posts: 96
Sanjaybala & Udayan,
Please do think twice whether you really want to work for such low salaries. If I were you, I would stay back in India and wait till I got a better offer than this one. If you need to have decent life (or atleast as decent as you may be having in India working in IT), I guess a higher salary would really be the best bet. Also, I am sure there are loads of good companies in India who send you to UK/US on long term basis with a much much better salary and other benefits.
All I want to say to you guys is - Please think twice & don't take any decision in haste and repent later. You are not going to loose anything in the long run if you reach the US, say , a couple of months later till you get a good offer.
I just reacted st away looking the post & honestly, I am rather pissed off reading that job add !
By the way, the guy who posted this add has not responded to any of our posts yet. I wonder what he's got to say !

------------------
- Sathvathsan Sampath


- Sathvathsan Sampath
Udayan Naik
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 18, 2000
Posts: 135
Thanks Peter and Sampath for your kind attention.BTW,i wasn't REALLY thinking of applying; just wanted to get a general reaction on the kind of salary structure they have in the US at the moment.
------------------
Udayan Naik
Sun Certified Java 2 Programmer
Ivey Zhang
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 01, 2001
Posts: 18
I just feel so depressed to see this job poster
What's problem for the market?
Michael Finney
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 25, 1999
Posts: 508
To discuss the market, post at the Jobs Discussion area.

------------------
Michael Finney
Sun Certified Programmer for the Java 2 Platform
Sun Certified Developer for the Java 2 Platform


Michael Finney - "Always Striving To Serve You Better Every Day"
http://www.smilingsoftwaresolutions.com/
Alvin Ko
Greenhorn

Joined: Oct 10, 2008
Posts: 1
I'm not even certified and have been working with Java only the last 7 months. I am paid 6 figures here in Silicon Valley. I have other work experience for 3 years in Data warehousing and oracle DBA.
Those salaries are way too low. We pay our fresh graduates 55-60k and experienced Java people (2-3 years) around 75-90K. For superstars/gurus we pay 6 figures. We are still looking and we do not care about certification rather real ability and experience.
Steve Dotson
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 03, 2001
Posts: 5
Of course, it is their own perogative to decide who works for them... But...
I was trying to imagine working for $24,000, and I think I might consider it as an entry level gig, if that was the best offer I could find, but my degree is in anthropology and that automatically disqualifies me from this company.
Why would any knowledgeable, growing company assume that rigor and excellence are limited to only selected academic fields? Would it matter if I showed them my successes in courses outside of my major? (calculus and chemistry and biology?)
And they seem to imply that a work ethic only applies to the rigorous fields they list. They will miss a few good java people with that kind of an attitude.
Steve
John Coxey
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 24, 2000
Posts: 503
Steve Dotson:
I'll probably catch heck for saying this - but here goes:
I hate to tell you this, but Anthropology (as a major) is a joke compared to Engineering - in the amount of work/study/dedication required. This is why the disparity in salaries between your major and engineering exists. Since it's alot easier to get through Anthropology - there are more Anthropologists than there is demand - and hence the lower salaries.
If I were a Information Technology employer and all I saw was the Anthropology degree listed on the resume - I would automatically chuck it in the trash. Why? You haven't showed me anything. Can you do the job? Are you dedicated to this field? Are you going to quit in 6 weeks?
You see a heck of alot more CS majors going into Anthropology than Anthropology majors going into CS. Why? Because Anthropology is an easier major.
Don't forget - there is also the notion of "having paid the price" that comes up as well. I highly doubt that an Anthropology major would have the skills to survive and put up with the 10-12 hour days this field requires.
Reason most companies require the engineering (cs/ee) degree in the first place. Just because it is such a hard degree to get.
Just my two cents.
John Coxey
(jpcoxey@aol.com)

[This message has been edited by John Coxey (edited March 07, 2001).]
M Prembroke
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 03, 2000
Posts: 56
If you mean just a degree in anthropology without some relevant experience or formal training (taking some classes) your view is reasonable, but otherwise it's not.
The two best programmers I've met had philosophy and music degrees. Especially philosophy. Also, I find math majors are better thinkers than CS/EE grads. Indeed, philosophy and math are the top two in scores on LSAT/GMAT/GRE.
There's a point about pursuing a degree that's hard but there are also degrees which require very high native intelligence by default. But for what most people major, it's all too often silly things like marketing and sociology.

Originally posted by John Coxey:
Steve Dotson:
I'll probably catch heck for saying this - but here goes:
I hate to tell you this, but Anthropology (as a major) is a joke [snip]
If I were a Information Technology employer and all I saw was the Anthropology degree listed on the resume - I would automatically chuck it in the trash. Why? You haven't showed me anything. Can you do the job? Are you dedicated to this field? Are you going to quit in 6 weeks?
Don't forget - there is also the notion of "having paid the price" that comes up as well. I highly doubt that an Anthropology major would have the skills to survive and put up with the 10-12 hour days this field requires.
Reason most companies require the engineering (cs/ee) degree in the first place. Just because it is such a hard degree to get.
Just my two cents.
John Coxey
(jpcoxey@aol.com)

[This message has been edited by John Coxey (edited March 07, 2001).]

anurag priya
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 19, 2000
Posts: 72
john!
hi!
i am SCJP with 83% and having Masters in computer information and systems with CGPA 3.07/4 .
work-ex of 18 months in a software company in india but not in developement (mainly into business developement and gathering user requirements .)
having national merit scholership and lots of other achievements smart enough to handle any project .
i am located in bombay/ pune and interested in your ad.
plz do reply.
anurag.


Anurag priya
SCJP 2(83%); Brain Bench Certified for: Masters level EJB2.0(97%) - Masters level J2EE (83%) - BEA-WebLogic Application Server8.1 (86% )
John Coxey
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 24, 2000
Posts: 503
Anurag:
I did not post the job advertisement - just responed that the pay is much too low for the New Jersey marketplace.
Go to the first post and you will see the e-mail address of the person "Martin" you are supposed to respond to.
Given the fact that he has not responed to our notes regarding his low pay figures - I have my doubts that is may be a legitimate person, but instead someone trying to stir thing up.
Good luck in your search.
John Coxey
(jpcoxey@aol.com)

P.S. I am not a recruiter or such. Just someone who has been through the hiring game 3 times in the last 5 years - and who likes to share his experiences.
anurag priya
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 19, 2000
Posts: 72
dear john !
sorry for bothering you ! and thanx for he advice. i w'd like o know what's the current position of Java job market in the US . it came in one of the leading news papers in india that so many people has been sacked in many software companies in the US . is the same true for Java ? is it due to the new government or due the new MS language C# ? please also clarify how to search for jobs in the US as we dont get a good response thru net .
regards .
anurag.
Monty Ireland
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 03, 2000
Posts: 161
My guess is that it has more to do with AD $$$ being removed from the web. C# will not be ready for prime time for atleast a year... Our current president has nothing to do with our present economic crisis. Our old president is responsible...
Monty6


Multi Platform Database Developer & DBA on E.S.T.
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
OK, so I've heard you all bash this guy. As a recruiter, I guess I'm going to try to stick up for him a little bit. Please don't be mean, I'm a big fan of Java Ranch.
It looks like he might be a little confused. At the top of his post, he mentions that Java is required, BUT in the breakdown of each position, he says that candidates can have C++ or Java. Or, he's just new to recruiting and doens't have a clue what he's saying.
Well, what I'm trying to get at is that if the positions ONLY required C++, the pay rates MIGHT seem a LITTLE more reasonable. But, not much.
Anyway, good luck filling those positions, buddy.
Michael Finney
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 25, 1999
Posts: 508
All replies in this Topic must be directly about the position posted from now on. The replies should normally be to the original poster too. Discussions about C#, the job market and other such non-topic things do not belong in this topic.
Thank you.

------------------
Michael Finney
Sun Certified Programmer for the Java 2 Platform
Sun Certified Developer for the Java 2 Platform
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
3 years Java for $45K is laughable. In the NYC metro area you are looking at abosulte minimum $65-70K for that much experience. 6figurejobs.com has Java jobs in the $120K range with 3 years of Java.
Here is one:
This position requires at least 3 years developing applications in Java, with a previous background in object-oriented development. In addition, a bachelor�s degree is required with a preference for either Computer Science or Math as a major.
Compensation Package $100K - $170K plus bonus and pre-IPO Stock Options.


Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Apparently it is even laughable for Texas:
From another post right here in JavaRanch:
Software Developer II & III (Java, OO, UML, UNIX) Dallas, TX
Must have 2+ years experience in object-oriented analysis and design of Java applications in Servlets. Familiar with UML, Patterns and UNIX. Knowledge of JProbe, JNI, HTTP, SMTP, JDBC, cryptography, Visual Age, ClearCase, or C++ are pluses.
Level III position should have 4+ years of development and have full lifecycle and team lead experience.
Location: Dallas
Salary ranges; Level II = $70-85K Level III= $85-100K
Benefits: Medical, dental, life, LTD, 401K, Flex 125, ESPP
Rochelle Hoffman
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 07, 2001
Posts: 13
Just to give a little bit more perspective of the salaries offered in this job "offering", at least from a Texas viewpoint.
My little brother works as a Java, C, and C++ programmer, with a little bit of SQL on the side, in the Dallas area. He got this job after completing *3* courses towards a MS - CompSci degree. One interview, easy as can be. He has a BS in Mech Engineering, and had worked testing jet engines for an aeronautics company prior to moving into programming.
Despite the lack of formal CS education, he makes about $75K yearly now, or about 3X what this ad offers.
Sooo.. as mentioned above, hopefully this guy was joking. Either that or just "testing the waters", albeit in a really extreme way.
And to think that I got excited about a great job being offered when I saw the number of replies to the original job posting! : )
Peter Tran
Bartender

Joined: Jan 02, 2001
Posts: 783
Erin,
If you don't mind me asking, but why would you want to change careers with an "MD"?
-Peter
Tom Hennigan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 25, 2001
Posts: 71
John,
Please hire me - haha! Great discussion. I have seen this before. I used to teach C++ and Java night classes at a community college in Washington state. When I hired out as a Java developer, one of my first projects was in Florida where one of my top students had moved - he is only 21, one year of college, and had designed and developed a PC game using C. I looked him up and convinced him to post his resume in the city I was in. He took 6 interviews, and they each offered him $18,000, as a C++ programmer. Just for fun, I sent them a resume and attended an interview - I was offered $25,000. I have a B.S. in finance with a minor in computer science and over 6 years programming experience in C++, VB, and Java.
Quite a large discrepancy in education unmatched in salary levels by this start-up. I think that they just try it to see how many responses they get, kinda like testing the waters. I hear that Texas has trouble attracting many Java programmers at any salary.
How much do you pay John? Any relocation? Any signing bonus? Great discussion!
Tom Hennigan
Sun Certified Java2 Programmer as of last Saturday - woohoo!

Tom Hennigan<P>Sun Certified Java 2 Platform Programmer
John Coxey
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 24, 2000
Posts: 503
Tommy:
I ain't a hiring no Java programmers. It's this guy Marvin.
However, I could use someone to clean my mini-van.
I'm just driving my dirty mini-van out to my favorite fishing hole along I-70.
In keeping with the spirit of the Job Postings Forum
It's now time for a fishing report.
BTW/ If any of you folks are driving past the big water wheel along I-70 at Idaho Springs, CO (30 mi west of Denver). And if you happen to see a blue minivan with a bashed in radiator grill - stop and say hi!! BTW/ I still have the Pennsylvania plates on the rear. PA does not require front license plates like Colorado.
Fishing Report for Wed: April 25 2001
Weather: 75 degrees - sunny - I got sunburned.
Time: 2:00PM - 6:30PM
Stream: Clear Creek - I 70 at Idaho Springs Waterwheel
Fish: 1 Rainbow - 14 Browns in the net.
5 or 6 missed.
Flies: Green Rachophylia Caddis Larva
- END -
[This message has been edited by John Coxey (edited April 25, 2001).]
Vidhya Sree
Greenhorn

Joined: May 21, 2001
Posts: 4
Hi,
I am an Electronics & Communication Engineering Graduate with high fristclass .
I have around 4 years of experience in the IT industry, with more than 2 years as a Java developer. I have worked with servlets,EJB JSP, JDBC, Swing etc... I have experience working with weblogic appication server.
I am brain Bench certified Java Programmer. I am on a H1 visa,currently working as consultant in NJ. I am willing to relocate anywhere in the US.
Summary of skills: Java, Servlets, EJB ,JSP, JDBC, XML,Weblogic, JavaScript, Rational Rose (UML), Oracle 7.x, 8, 8i, PL/SQL, Oracle 8i

If interested contact me at vidhya_mail@yahoo.com / 1-732-634-0340

Thanks
vidhya
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Sir,
I am Kishor Kumar BE Electronic and Sun Certified Java Programmer from Karachi - Pakistan. Curently working on servlets.
I want to apply for the junior level position.
Pls reply me on kklalwani@hotmail.com
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
"Due you live and breath Java ??"
Even if the salary were decent, I would not want to work for someone whose English skills were this poor. The first line is just one of many problems in this advertisement rife with errors in spelling and grammar. It's one thing to save time by using chat abbreviations, but to be this careless in looking for professionals? �Ay caramba!
 
Consider Paul's rocket mass heater.
 
subject: Java Software Devlopers needed Jr/Mid Lvl