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Which IDE's are most used by professionals?

Michael Bruesch
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Joined: Sep 23, 2001
Posts: 158
I'm a college student and we were recommended a few IDE's to download free. I got JGrasp (only cause I used PCGrasp for all my C++ developing, if it ain't broke...) and it seems fairly well. It's kinda slow loading cause it written in pure Java, but it makes testing Applets a breeze. But which ones are used most by professional Java Programmers?
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Michael J Bruesch
Codito, ergo sum...
I code, therefore I am.
http://www.geocities.com/mjbruesch


Michael J Bruesch<br /><i>I code, therefore I am.</i>
Sonny Pondrom
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 05, 2001
Posts: 128
I was told that Forte for Java from NetBeans was good.
jason adam
Chicken Farmer ()
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 08, 2001
Posts: 1932
The only problem I have with Forte is that it takes for ever to load. Otherwise, I like it. Personally, I use JCreator LE. It's a very easy and intuitive IDE, but I doubt it has all the nice capabilities of others that are more appropriate in a true business environment.
You can use the search tool for posts about Visual Age, Visual Cafe, or Forte, and pull up some posts that might help you. Visual Age seems to be very popular (IBM's IDE, I believe).
Jason
[This message has been edited by jason adam (edited October 22, 2001).]
David O'Meara
Rancher

Joined: Mar 06, 2001
Posts: 13459

I had to use Forte for a while wasn't a fan. We were building a web app and using the servlet/jsp containers as well and these were causing us to restart our machines several times a day.
Personally I kept cutting out the options until it was a glorified version of Textpad...
Dave
Craig Demyanovich
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 25, 2000
Posts: 173
My company has purchased JBuilder 5 Enterprise Edition. We bought it for things like CVS integration and EJB wizards, but I've found it lacking so far. Maybe I just need to spend more time with it, but a wizard, by definition, should not require me to "spend more time with it." I tried IDEA from IntelliJ (http://www.intellij.com) some time ago; I would buy that one if I had my choice: simple, elegant, powerful...it doesn't get in the way, and it offers many of the same features that the "big guns" offer and MORE.
Craig
Michael Bruesch
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 23, 2001
Posts: 158
Alright, being a broke student, which one would be best for being a free download? Like I said, I'm using JGrasp right now, it's mainly a student Java IDE, free from Auburn, and what I love most about it is you click a little button with an apple on it and it will generate the HTML document for you and bring up the applet in an appletviewer for you. It's very convenient. Do any of the others facilitate applet creation in this manner? And remember, free is a must, I'm not really cheap, I can't spend any money when I already have a decent IDE to begin with. Thanks in advance! You da man jason, nice job on reaching bartender status.
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Michael J Bruesch
Codito, ergo sum...
I code, therefore I am.
My Java Games, I'm quite proud
Sylvester Saloon
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 31, 2001
Posts: 24
Michael,
I'm a programmer by profession and the best free IDE I have used is JCreatorLE. I don't build swing/gui type applications, so I have no pressing need for drag and drop beans.
Among the non-free IDE, I prefer IBM's Visual Age for Java Enterprise Edition. Comes with WTE, drag and drop beans, no-brainer wizards, code completion etc. Learning curve on VAJ though is a lot longer than JCreator.
jason adam
Chicken Farmer ()
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 08, 2001
Posts: 1932
I like JCreator, also. Doesn't take a long time to load up, compiles relatively quickly, and it doesn't have all the bells and whistles that personally I don't ever deal with. It's simple and intuitive.
$0.02
Jason
Kyle Brown
author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 10, 2001
Posts: 3892
    
    5
I've used VisualAge for Java since the 0.7 beta days and I love it. However, it's on its way out
The replacement is called "WebSphere Studio Application Developer" and it's based on a technology called Eclipse. You can join the Eclipse developer community and get a free download for Eclipse by looking here:
http://www.eclipse.org/
For a bare-bones IDE Eclipse is pretty good. It's got a lot in common with IntelliJ. The cool thing about Eclipse is that it's expandable in the same way that Forte/NetBeans is, but in a more logical architecture. You can find lots more information on the newsgroup hosted at the Eclipse site.
Kyle
------------------
Kyle Brown,
Author of Enterprise Java (tm) Programming with IBM Websphere
See my homepage at http://members.aol.com/kgb1001001 for other WebSphere information.


Kyle Brown, Author of Persistence in the Enterprise and Enterprise Java Programming with IBM Websphere, 2nd Edition
See my homepage at http://www.kyle-brown.com/ for other WebSphere information.
Manish Hatwalne
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Posts: 2578

Does this JCreatorLE (free one) have auto complete feature like MS Visual Studio, the one which drops down list of class methods and their parameters for you? That's a very cool feature.
I did use forte for couple of days but that's dead slow on P-III 800 with 128 MB RAM. I gave up!!! plus the UI is buggy.
TIA,
- Manish
[This message has been edited by Manish Hatwalne (edited October 27, 2001).]
jason adam
Chicken Farmer ()
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 08, 2001
Posts: 1932
I don't believe LE supports auto complete. The trial version does, and I agree, it is very nice, but I haven't seen it work in LE yet, and haven't found anywhere in the IDE where you would configure it. Must say though, it has definitely gotten me focused on remembering the methods and parameters, but it is a hassle having to dig through the API often.
Jason
Dharmesh Chheda
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 08, 2001
Posts: 204
Originally posted by Kyle Brown:
I've used VisualAge for Java since the 0.7 beta days and I love it. However, it's on its way out
The replacement is called "WebSphere Studio Application Developer" and it's based on a technology called Eclipse. You can join the Eclipse developer community and get a free download for Eclipse by looking here:
http://www.eclipse.org/
For a bare-bones IDE Eclipse is pretty good. It's got a lot in common with IntelliJ. The cool thing about Eclipse is that it's expandable in the same way that Forte/NetBeans is, but in a more logical architecture. You can find lots more information on the newsgroup hosted at the Eclipse site.
Kyle

Hey kyle
you said that VAJ is out and WebSphere Studio Application Developer is the next product.. is that true?.. cause they (IBM) have recently come out with VAJ 4.0 and me planning to give a certification on that .. so if you say is true will that affect me?... please mail back

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IBM Certified WebSphere Application Server V3.5 Specialist


regards,<br />Dharmesh Chheda
Bartholemu Smith
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 08, 2001
Posts: 317
Michael
You can download a free version of Visual Age for Java from the IBM web site. They have a Entry Level Version which is limited to 750 classes. I personaly enjoy VAJava. It's a excellent tool.
Marcus Green
arch rival
Rancher

Joined: Sep 14, 1999
Posts: 2813
I have either used, or had a serious play with most of the Java IDE tools over the last two or three years. They all have vices and virtues, but Visual Cafe smelt the worst of all. We used to call it the 500Mb virus where I work.
We were all rather alarmed when our company bought it, as we had been reading in the newsgroups for the previous year or so many, many complaints about its stability. It lived up to it's reputation. I am doubtful that it's instabilities would have been fixed by Webgain.
We now use Forte or Netbeans, but JBuilder is fine and if you can get your head around it's wierd interface Visual Age is a good tool. Actually I have probably written more lines of code in vi than any other tool, but that's just me.
Marcus
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Peter Lyons
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Joined: Sep 12, 2000
Posts: 202
JBuilder 4 Foundation (or maybe it's version 5 by now) is a free, and relatively sophisticated IDE for Java. I use the enterprise edition here at work and I like it. Everyone has their preferences though.
You can find the download at www.borland.com
Andy Rodriguez
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 30, 2001
Posts: 34
I have been a fan of Kawa and Jbuilder , but now i think i like the websphere application studio (Beta)
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Kyle Brown
author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 10, 2001
Posts: 3892
    
    5
Originally posted by Dharmesh Chheda:
Hey kyle
you said that VAJ is out and WebSphere Studio Application Developer is the next product.. is that true?.. cause they (IBM) have recently come out with VAJ 4.0 and me planning to give a certification on that .. so if you say is true will that affect me?... please mail back

Yes, it's the honest-to-God truth. VAJ 4.0 is the last release of the product. Application Developer will replace it. And yes, it will affect all VAJ developers...
Kyle

------------------
Kyle Brown,
Author of Enterprise Java (tm) Programming with IBM Websphere
See my homepage at http://members.aol.com/kgb1001001 for other WebSphere information.
Michael Bruesch
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 23, 2001
Posts: 158
Wow.....lot's of great replies...thanks guys!
I was going to try to take all the responses and make a decision based on which IDE was suggested the most, but it seems that everyone has something good (and bad) to say about all of them. Websphere is an IDE? And does it have a free download? I'm not a professional programmer (yet) but I'd like to be on the same page as those who do this for a living. And unfortunately the free part is required (broke and hungry college student).
Tony Chan
Greenhorn

Joined: Nov 05, 2001
Posts: 2
Hi Kyle,
But can we upgrade VAJ 4.0 to WebSphere Studio Application Developer later?
Thanks,
--Tony
Kyle Brown
author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 10, 2001
Posts: 3892
    
    5
Later meaning....?
If you're an existing VAJ user, the move to WSAD will be considered a normal upgrade as far as pricing goes. If you're asking if you HAVE to upgrade -- the answer is no, but don't expect any new features to be added to VAJ...
Kyle
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Kyle Brown,
Author of Enterprise Java (tm) Programming with IBM Websphere
See my homepage at http://members.aol.com/kgb1001001 for other WebSphere information.
Tony Chan
Greenhorn

Joined: Nov 05, 2001
Posts: 2
Thanks Kyle. But when will Websphere Studio Application Developer come out? Currently my company is planning to purchase new IDE for developers. Should we wait until the new product comes out? What IDE would you recommend? I want to know some pros and cons of the following products - VAJ 4.0, JBuilder 5.0 and Forte for Java 3.0 (all Enterprise Edition) Looking forward to your valuable opinions.
Many thanks,
--Tony
Kyle Brown
author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 10, 2001
Posts: 3892
    
    5
The first version of WSAD will be out before the end of the month (November 2001, that is)! I'd say wait until it's out and then make up your mind...
Kyle
------------------
Kyle Brown,
Author of Enterprise Java (tm) Programming with IBM Websphere
See my homepage at http://members.aol.com/kgb1001001 for other WebSphere information.
Shaun Larkin
Greenhorn

Joined: Nov 12, 2001
Posts: 18
I personally like JCreator a lot http://www.jcreator.com. It's built in C++, and is only a couple of Megs in size, it's also lightning fast, and GUI enough for beginners.
Shaun Larkin
Greenhorn

Joined: Nov 12, 2001
Posts: 18
Sorry, someone already mentioned JCreator
Ian Lockwood
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 01, 2001
Posts: 22
I had some discussions with a Java trainer from Parity in the UK. Many people do use ide's for some things but at the end of the day most prgramming is still done in the humble text editor. I can definately recommend text pad from www.textpad.com try it out its a free download and its cheap to buy the full latest version.


When eating an Elephant take one bite at a time.<p>Ian...........
jason adam
Chicken Farmer ()
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 08, 2001
Posts: 1932
I end up using my IDE like a glorified text pad. I don't worry about all the extra stuff, I just like having a compiler button right there. Call me lazy
Jason
Alex Givant
Greenhorn

Joined: Nov 12, 2001
Posts: 23
I vote for IntelliJ IDEA, it's just great.
By the way this is a forum on SlashDot about Java IDEs, so go
to http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=23506&cid=0&pid=0&startat=&threshold=0&mode=thread&commentsort=0&op=Change
Alex.
Marilyn de Queiroz
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 22, 2000
Posts: 9046
    
  10
You can compile from TextPad and also from UltraEdit, both text editors.
I like IntelliJ for large projects and text editors for writing small programs.

JavaBeginnersFaq
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, and today is a gift; that's why they call it the present." Eleanor Roosevelt
jason adam
Chicken Farmer ()
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 08, 2001
Posts: 1932
Oooh, forgot about UltraEdit. I used that a long time ago when I was learning C. Might have to revisit it just for fun. Have to say though, I'm sticking with JCreator, like it for some reason
Jason
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
I am also a professional Java programmer. We exclusively use JBuilder5 Enterprise. We have been using Jbuilder since about version 3.0 or 3.5. It has excellent, I might even say essential , features for developing both client applications as well as server and web based applications.
Some of the better features:
============================
- integrates with Visual Source Safe and Rational Clear Case, as well as CVS. Essential in a team development environment.
- Integrated with Tomcat. Allows each developer to develope and test on their own machines. Having everybody use the same server for development and testing is generally a bad thing unless you are doing integration. Naturally doing your development and testing on a production server is even worse. Since Tomcat comes integrated with JB, there is no need for each developer to learn how to set-up and run Tomcat. Since Tomcat is the underlying Servlet container, it is no problem to integrate things like Struts.
- Not only the standard debugger, but also comes with a "Web debugger" for debugging web applications. This is nothing to sneeze at.
- Comes with an app server so developer's can develope EJBs locally, with same benefits as I outlined above for Tomcat.
- Borland has their own extensive set of APIs which facilitate rapid application developement (RAD). Sometimes time = money, or a prototype is required ASAP, and the combination of their APIs with their IDE definitely shine here. It would only be a matter of a few clicks to throw together a GUI that includes elements that both read from and update a database for example.

There are many more features of course, but these are some of the nicer ones that came to mind. Price will be an issue for you, but I thought I should outline it anyway. As a student though you can get some incredible prices on software through your campus bookstore or sites like www.journeyed.com .
Ashik Uzzaman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 05, 2001
Posts: 2370

Found this old but useful discussion while searching this forum.


Ashik Uzzaman
Senior Member of Technical Staff, Salesforce.com, San Francisco, CA, USA.
Ilja Preuss
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
Usefull? Are you a historian?
Seriously, the IDE market is moving way to fast for this thread to be of any relevance anymore, in my opinion.


The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Charles Hasegawa
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 22, 2003
Posts: 117
Originally posted by Michael Bruesch:
I'm not a professional programmer (yet) but I'd like to be on the same page as those who do this for a living.

If you can't tell from all the posts, there is no such thing as the mythical "same page". I have been lucky enough to have worked for shops where they do not care what I use to develop my code. I know that some places will require that you use the same tool as everyone else. What that tool may be will very greatly from place to place and depending on what you are writing.
A number of people (you know who you are if you voted for IntelliJ) didn't read when you said it must be FREE multiple times.
For FREE - the big ones are going to be Forte/NetBeans and Eclipse. Both of these are excellent tools (I admit I have limited knowledge of NetBeans as I use Eclipse in my workplace), but I do know that they are also resource hogs. For any decent sized project you are looking for at least a P3-800 and no less than 256MB RAM.
For $$$ - there are lots of big ones. IntelliJ, JBuilder, IBM's Websphere, etc.
Check out this year's reader's choices at JDJ http://www.sys-con.com/java/readerschoice2003/
Any of these tools will probably offer you the same issue while you are in school - you will have nobody to show you how to use it effectively. When I interned with my first company, I got to learn how to use IBM's VAJ (I had been trying to figure out Visual Cafe before that). Once I learned how to use the tool, I fell in love with all its features (it had stuff like code formatting and refactoring that weren't really available in other tools). I finally switched to Eclipse because I learned that IBM was dropping VAJ support (plus it was free). However, I know from introducing the tool to others that unless you are really willing to dig into the tool, you won't get everything out of it unless someone can explain some good ways to use it.
The last thing you want as a student is to try and figure out whether its the tool's fault your code won't compile (you didn't set up the classpaths correctly or whatever), or your code. If you have the free time, check out some of the free tools - there are loads of good IDE's out there.
Jon Poole
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 19, 2003
Posts: 31
Can't believe I had to scroll down so far before seeing anyone mention Eclipse... specially in this forum where there's so much discussion about Eclipse.
free: either Netbeans or Eclipse
commercial: IntelliJ's IDEA
David Weitzman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 27, 2001
Posts: 1365
Can't believe I had to scroll down so far before seeing anyone mention Eclipse... specially in this forum where there's so much discussion about Eclipse.
If you look at the top of each post, you can see the date and time on which it was posted. There was not as much dicussion of Eclipse in 2001 as there is now
[ July 22, 2003: Message edited by: David Weitzman ]
Venu G
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 1
My Ideal choice is IntelliJ.
Its lool and feel is great.
Above all it is not as heavy as other commercial IDE's.
If anyone has time, just give it a try and I am sure you guys will like it too..
ernest fakudze
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 27, 2001
Posts: 216
Yes, IntelliJ rocks!! I wouldn't use anything else!


In a time of drastic change it is the learners who inherit the future. The learned usually find themselves equipped to live in a world that no longer exists.<br />Eric Hoffer
Jerry L Kreps
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 15, 2003
Posts: 8
Originally posted by Ilja Preuss:
Usefull? Are you a historian?
Seriously, the IDE market is moving way to fast for this thread to be of any relevance anymore, in my opinion.

True, but in case anyone is still reading this thread let me recommend that if they are working into an Oracle 9 backend they should try JDeveloper9 from Oracle. It's free and powerful! The look and feel is nearly identical in both WinXX and Linux, I'm using MDK 9.2. Works beautifully with CVS. Great debugger, profiler, code complete, BC4J, Netbeans, Enterprise, Modeler, etc....
Although it is slow to load, once it is up and running it is reasonably fast.
Jerry L Kreps
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 15, 2003
Posts: 8

I forgot to include that JDeveloper9 is supplied as a single download, which can be installed on either WinXX or Linux, which is why the "Look&Feel" on both platforms is nearly indentical.
Rob Ross
Bartender

Joined: Jan 07, 2002
Posts: 2205
I've used Visual J++, Symantec Visual Cafe, Metrowerks CodeWarrior, JBuilder, NetBeans, and now IntelliJ IDEA, along with numerous text-editors like BBEdit and UltraEdit.
My favorites were JBuilder, NetBeans, and IDEA. I have to agree with Marcus that Visual Cafe was a horrible product.
But I've been using IDEA for over a year now and they'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands before I ever give it up!


Rob
SCJP 1.4
 
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subject: Which IDE's are most used by professionals?