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Stability of eclipse

Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

Hi,
How stable is eclipse? Does it crash often?


Groovy
Joe Pluta
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Joined: Jun 23, 2003
Posts: 1376
I honestly can't remember the date when I last crashed Eclipse. The last one I can recall was in an early milestone release between 2.0 and 2.1, and I had to go back and manually re-add my projects, but that's the worse that's ever happened to me.
Joe
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
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Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

I can remember R1.0 crashing quite often. Actually, it would just close, and I wouldn't know why.
But ever since R2.0 and up, I have had no problem with it on Linux or Windows. Right now I am using M3.0


GenRocket - Experts at Building Test Data
Jon Poole
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Joined: Jun 19, 2003
Posts: 31
I've been using 2.1 for a couple months and the only time I've had any issue with stability was due to a weekend where I got plugin happy and added/removed many many plugins just to check them out. It started acting a bit weird until I blew it away and reinstalled with only the plugins I liked and haven't had an issue since.
Lasse Koskela
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 23, 2002
Posts: 11962
    
    5
I have managed to crash my Eclipse 2.1 almost daily by using it for a project which contains over 10000 files and 1,400,000 lines of code. I suspect the ClearCase plugin to have some part in this as well...
Nevertheless, I simply love Eclipse.


Author of Test Driven (2007) and Effective Unit Testing (2013) [Blog] [HowToAskQuestionsOnJavaRanch]
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

What about the menory requirements ? I have used Forte in the past and it is memory hungry.
Joe Pluta
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Joined: Jun 23, 2003
Posts: 1376
The more memory the better. Personally, I no longer get anything less than 1GB of RAM for a new machine. Considering the fact that 512MB of RAM costs less than $100, it's a prudent investment.
The crazy thing is that I remember when I started: I wrote entire operating systems to live in 16KB :roll: .
Joe
Tarun Ramakrishna Elankath
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 27
Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
What about the menory requirements ? I have used Forte in the past and it is memory hungry.

The Forte and NetBeans of old were simply unusable. It was impossible to do any sort of work on them unless you had a Gig or more of RAM.
However with J2SE 1.4.2, I find the new NetBeans 3.5 to be actually faster than Eclipse 2.1 in startup and response times. Memory usage in both IDE's is about the same - it just depends on how many plugins are loaded in one or the other and the size of the project that you are working on.
But NetBeans still sucks at looks and user friendliness. Eclipse is a better designed IDE and better looking IDE and that's why I use it.
Ashok Mash
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Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
I have just started using Eclipse, and haven't checked any advanced features yet, but from my observation, with a ClearCase dynamic view, Eclipse 2.1 is considerably faster than Forte (SunOne 4.0) and at least 5 times faster than IntelliJ !! (IntelliJ is such a great IDE, but when mapped to a ClearCase view on a network share, it takes forever to 'Synchronize files', sometime more than two minutes!!)
But, Eclipse is defenitly not as user-friendly or intutive as IntelliJ! It may be because I need to read more about Eclipse, and if someone can point me to a nice resource in that direction, that would be great!
Thanks.


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Joe Pluta
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Joined: Jun 23, 2003
Posts: 1376
Originally posted by Ashok Krishnan:
But, Eclipse is defenitly not as user-friendly or intutive as IntelliJ! It may be because I need to read more about Eclipse, and if someone can point me to a nice resource in that direction, that would be great!

Well, that's exactly the reason I wrote Eclipse: Step by Step, Ashok. The book is a pure, hands-on tutorial that walks you through every step of creating a project, creating a class, importing existing Java code, and including external JAR files to write a real application. Plus, it includes a great 100% Pure Java SQL database (HSQLDB) and even shows an example of using IBM's new SWT GUI classes. Everything you want to jumpstart your Eclipse development is right there.
Joe
Gustavo Adolpho Bonesso
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Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 103
I�m using Eclipse since May, and it never crashed... I�m very satisfied !


Gustavo Adolpho Bonesso<br />SCJP1.4
Dan Kehn
Dastardly Dan the Author
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Joined: Jun 11, 2003
Posts: 120
Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
The more memory the better. Personally, I no longer get anything less than 1GB of RAM for a new machine. Considering the fact that 512MB of RAM costs less than $100, it's a prudent investment.

I agree the more memory the better and 1G RAM is easily justifiable. As an aside, however, many of our customers have acres and acres of machines that are hardware-limited to 512M RAM. Hence why we include lower entry-level machines in our performance work.
For example, today I am doing some severe memory load testing (256M, 384M, 512M with 700M+ committed memory) in preparation for future performance improvements on WSAD. I'm surprised how well WinXP handles it up to about 40% overcomittment -- if you don't bounce too much between applications. Windows aggressively pushes applications into the swapper, so you get badly punished performance-wise if you usage requires that.
Since we're talking performance, have you looked at Eclipse 3.0? The latest driver almost gave me whiplash it came up so fast. Then again, I may be getting too much time on "old" hardware lately and forgot what a 2.0GHz / 1G RAM machine can do.

The crazy thing is that I remember when I started: I wrote entire operating systems to live in 16KB :roll: .
Joe

Yeah, I remember when I got a IBM PC-AT with expansion unit. I thought that was real hot stuff compared to my old Kaypro II. But I digress...
-- Dan


Co-author of <a href="http://www.jdg2e.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">The Java Developer's Guide to Eclipse</a>, 2nd Edition<br />(Yahoo group <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JDG2E/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">JDG2E</a>)
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
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Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

if you don't bounce too much between applications.
Yeah, 3.0 is nice and if you don't go back and forth between apps it runs really smooth. And I am only running 250MB ram on a 1.7 GHz. But add Mozilla Web Browser, Mozilla Mail and going between all 3 throughout the day, things start to drag. Although it usually seems Mozilla apps drag worse than Eclipse.
All in all, I think Eclipse, especially 3.0, performce extremely well for all the stuff it does.
Joe Pluta
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Joined: Jun 23, 2003
Posts: 1376
Originally posted by Dan Kehn:
I'm surprised how well WinXP handles it up to about 40% overcomittment -- if you don't bounce too much between applications.

Call me a Luddite. I haven't yet found compelling reason to switch from W2K to XP. W2K runs and runs and runs and runs.
Since we're talking performance, have you looked at Eclipse 3.0?
:roll: Get real! Remember, I use WDSC. I'm waiting for 5.1 so that I can use Eclipse 2.1. How long is it gonig to be before WDSC supports Eclipse 3.0, eh?
Joe
Dan Kehn
Dastardly Dan the Author
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Joined: Jun 11, 2003
Posts: 120
Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
Call me a Luddite. I haven't yet found compelling reason to switch from W2K to XP. W2K runs and runs and runs and runs.

Indeed, I loath to upgrade too. Believe it or not, I upgraded mostly for ClearType fonts. I'm a sucker for anything that helps reduce my eyestrain. I'm sure there are lots and lots of other good reasons to upgrade... I just can't think of another at the moment.
:roll: Get real! Remember, I use WDSC. I'm waiting for 5.1 so that I can use Eclipse 2.1.

Oops, sorry. Anyway, I may be wrong, I haven't done performance measurements on Eclipse 3.0 yet.
How long is it going to be before WDSC supports Eclipse 3.0, eh?
Joe

Eclipse 2.1 came out in late March, WSAD 5.1 came out on Eclipse 2.1.1 in August... so about five months later? One release a year is the max that most customers will tolerate, so purely speculating I would say "same time next year" is a good starting guess.
-- Dan
Joe Pluta
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Joined: Jun 23, 2003
Posts: 1376
Originally posted by Dan Kehn:
Eclipse 2.1 came out in late March, WSAD 5.1 came out on Eclipse 2.1.1 in August... so about five months later? One release a year is the max that most customers will tolerate, so purely speculating I would say "same time next year" is a good starting guess.

Yeah, but we still don't have WDSCi 5.1, and in fact won't be getting it until the end of September . So add another 2 months to WSAD availability to get WDSCi release. Especially since plug-ins are NOT going to be compatible; they'll need to be reworked. Which means a ton of work for the jLpex team.
Until then, I can do research and even write about Eclipse 3.0, but I can't switch over because my iSeries developers count on me to tell them about their tools. The fine line I always have to dance .
Joe
Dan Kehn
Dastardly Dan the Author
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Joined: Jun 11, 2003
Posts: 120
Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
Yeah, but we still don't have WDSCi 5.1, and in fact won't be getting it until the end of September . So add another 2 months to WSAD availability to get WDSCi release. Especially since plug-ins are NOT going to be compatible; they'll need to be reworked. Which means a ton of work for the jLpex team.

I hear you and will add an observation. IBM's goal is to have the WebSphere family releases close to each other. This strategy was first evidenced with the national language version releases -- they used to be a 3-4 month delay, now it is less than a month. As more and more of the products become fully "Eclipse-ized" (e.g., the page designer was originally written in C++, now it is a full-fledged plug-in written in Java), the effort to produce co-releases diminishes.
This goal isn't just to satisfy customer expectations, it also helps reduce IBM's development costs. It is more expensive to produce n staged releases even if one only considers non-development costs (testing, packaging, promotion, etc). So while I have no "insider information" per-se, it makes business sense that "see you the same time next year" will become the de rigueur in the years to come. I could draw an analogy to the automotive industry but I'll restrain myself.
Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
Hi,
How stable is eclipse? Does it crash often?

Since this was the original question, I'll add my 2-cents worth. In practically all cases that I can recall, a "crash" was caused by a bug in the JVM, not Eclipse itself. You could blame Eclipse for vigorously exercising the VM and thereby provoking the failure, however if the code that ultimately changes isn't in Eclipse, well...
FYI, some of the WSAD 5.1 performance improvements are in the JVM / JRE included with the product. JVM performance enhancements sometimes come at the risk of increasing crashes. Hopefully you'll agree that IBM made the appropriate choice between speed and reliability. You can disable these JVM optimizations by removing VMArgs=-Xj9 from the wsappdev.ini file although I don't expect you will ever find this necessary.
-- Dan
Jon Poole
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Joined: Jun 19, 2003
Posts: 31
Dan,
I pulled down Eclipse 3 the other day but haven't installed it. A little voice in the head was wonder if I'll have any issues with plugins or should they (for the most part) just work?
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
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Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

Originally posted by Jon Poole:
Dan,
I pulled down Eclipse 3 the other day but haven't installed it. A little voice in the head was wonder if I'll have any issues with plugins or should they (for the most part) just work?

Some will. Please see Joe's post here for more information
Finally, and this is probably the only bit relevant to the original question : release 3.0 will not be compatible with release 2.1, especially at the binary level of plug-ins. That means that all plug-ins will have to at a minimum be recompiled, and in many cases be ported. I suspect this is going to slow down the acceptance of the new release, and will also greatly hinder the movement of the IBM WebSphere products to release 3.0 as well.
Matthew Phillips
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Joined: Mar 09, 2001
Posts: 2676
The closest thing I have had to a crash was after I installed AJDT. I couldn't open any editors. This is a known bug. I closed all of my projects, restarted Eclipse, and re-opened my projects. I haven't had a problem since.


Matthew Phillips
Matthew Phillips
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Joined: Mar 09, 2001
Posts: 2676
One other thing to mention. I'm running Eclipse on a 1.1 GHz with 256kb of memory. Other than a wait for the intial start up, I don't have any performance problems.
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

What is the minimum memory requirementr for Eclipse?
Originally posted by Matthew Phillips:
One other thing to mention. I'm running Eclipse on a 1.1 GHz with 256kb of memory. Other than a wait for the intial start up, I don't have any performance problems.
 
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