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Opinions on todays IDE'S

Marcus Raphael
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Joined: Dec 03, 2003
Posts: 57
In industry how do developers feel about the new generation of IDE'S?
Supprting MDA and design patterns?
Do they not like them because they feel they are admiting to some kind of weekness?
enlighten me
Jeroen Wenting
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Joined: Oct 12, 2000
Posts: 5093
IDEs are getting ever more bloated and filled with features most people never use.
As a result they get slower and slower and the size of the actual edit window where you type your text gets ever smaller.
As you can probably see from that I don't like the current trend towards huge IDEs. Give me an editor with syntax highlighting and maybe code completion and some wizards and I'm content.
All those other things are icing on the cake and not worth the overhead in most cases.


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Marcus Raphael
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 03, 2003
Posts: 57
What do you think of MDA aproaches? And products like ArcStyler 4.0?
Just out of interest what IDE are you currently using? and do you work in a large organisation?
Your input is much appreciated!
Jeroen Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 12, 2000
Posts: 5093
I'm using Eclipse now, used JBuilder before.
I've not seen Arcstyler in action recently, saw a little bit of the sales mumbo jumbo early last year.
Sounded to me like so many tools that promise an environment where the business analyst can just put in his businessrules as plain text and the tool creates a complete application so the company can dispense with those pesky expensive programmers (all those tools are of course just so much hot air).
Marcus Raphael
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 03, 2003
Posts: 57
I am doing extensive studying into Software Engineering Tools at the moment.
I recommend you read Butler Report - Application Development Environments.
I would definetly not say it is mumbo Jumbo. Cos that is going to revolutionise the way applications are developed.
My advice is you master UML!
Ilja Preuss
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
Originally posted by Marcus Raphael:
I would definetly not say it is mumbo Jumbo. Cos that is going to revolutionise the way applications are developed.

Interesting. I think this has been said about different tools again and again. What makes you believe it will work out this time? Would you please elaborate? Thanks!


The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Ilja Preuss
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:
IDEs are getting ever more bloated and filled with features most people never use.

Many do, certainly. And then there are those being filled with features you use daily and get so used to that you wouldn't want to live without it!
As you can probably see from that I don't like the current trend towards huge IDEs. Give me an editor with syntax highlighting and maybe code completion and some wizards and I'm content.
All those other things are icing on the cake and not worth the overhead in most cases.

What I'd also want is:
- powerfull refactorings
- syntax aware searches (search all uses of this local variable, but *not* of the field with the same name, for example).
- powerfull navigation (jump to method-implementation, for example)
- tight JUnit integration
- tight CVS integration
- instant compilation
- quick fixes (automatic fixes of compilation errors)
Those things make a *big* difference. I am using Eclipse, BTW.
Ilja Preuss
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
Originally posted by Marcus Raphael:
In industry how do developers feel about the new generation of IDE'S?
Supprting MDA and design patterns?

What does "supporting design patterns" mean? What do you think is the value of design patterns???
Marcus Raphael
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 03, 2003
Posts: 57
Here is an extract from my research assignment. It may give you jist of some aspects! not the technical, but what developers/organisations are thinking.
"
for one I can say, that on my journey towards becoming a professional developer, I take great pride in my work, and like to demonstrate the skills I have gained, as I am sure many other developers do also. The Butler Group suggests that developers like to use tools that allow them to do what they feel they do best (hack code), hence this is the method of tool selection they use throughout the development process. In my opinion, the Butler group quite rightly point out, that this conflicts with an IDE which is all about masking programming complexity, and supporting the application lifecycle within one environment.
Point of View -Solution Criteria
Organisation
Support the latest standards, and be extensible to incorporate
new and upcoming standards.
Provide complete support of the application lifecycle (to help
manage change, and reduce time to market).
Focus on complete productivity in light of increasing
application and architectural complexity.
Developer
Still provide the ability to hack code.
Be comfortable using that tool (depending on individual capabilities).
An organisation can maximise the benefits of J2EE, .NET, and Web Services without requiring the developers to understand all the details of how the technologies work. Which from a developers point of view can make them feel less wanted. The tools have been designed incorporating many thousands of hours of developers experience. Which in some ways gives me the impression that it makes the developers role less skilful, because the know how, has been put in, as a consequence less input is required from the developers using the tools, to produce the applications. However we can argue this, because a knock on effect is that more efforts can be employed on other areas of the application development lifecycle."
 
Don't get me started about those stupid light bulbs.
 
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