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Is it a lost battle with Eclipse?

Igor Katkov
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 12, 2007
Posts: 6
Hi Dmitry,

Do you think that Idea has lost the battle with Eclipse? Looking at the market share it's definitely seems so. What Intellij is planning to do about it? Would you say that these two IDEs are for different target groups?
Shahzad Masud
Greenhorn

Joined: Oct 18, 2007
Posts: 11
Both these IDEs do hold their list of pros/cons. We may not say if one won the bettle or not. A large number of people in developer community prefer to use Eclipse due to its robustness and ease of use, which does not really means that Eclipse is a winner. I have used Eclipse, and 1 out of 10, it hangs up and stop debugging / compiling applications, but didn't see this behavior in Idea.
Wolfgang Zolleis
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 11, 2004
Posts: 2
We are using IntelliJ 6.05 and we have submitted several bug reports to Jetbrains. So IntelliJ has its own problems and even worse, they don't care much about their customers.
Hussein Baghdadi
clojure forum advocate
Bartender

Joined: Nov 08, 2003
Posts: 3479

Originally posted by Wolfgang Zolleis:
We are using IntelliJ 6.05 and we have submitted several bug reports to Jetbrains. So IntelliJ has its own problems and even worse, they don't care much about their customers.

This is a powerful and inaccurate statement.
Do you think there is a commercial entity don't care about its repetition?
And Eclipse is the perfect software and don't have its own bugs?
Historically, IntelliJ is my favored advanced editor, Eclipse and then NetBeans.
But recently NetBeans is much more powerful than Eclipse (IMHO) and if you asked me (well, you didn't ), with Europa, Eclipse is trying to come back in business.
Arvind Mahendra
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 14, 2007
Posts: 1162
Those market share stats you might be seeing would also be having MyEclipse counted as Eclipse. Eclipse by itself sucks and most people move on after a few months with it. Netbeans is far better and with netbeans 6 its going to blow everyone out of the ball park.
Idea also must have a good fanbase/marketing as I see good things about it everywhere on the web
[ November 06, 2007: Message edited by: Chunnard Singh II ]

I want to be like marc
Mark Spritzler
ranger
Sheriff

Joined: Feb 05, 2001
Posts: 17250
    
    6

I agree 100% with you John. I love IJ. It is the IDE of my choice. I have so many issue with Eclipse, one being that they come up with their own naming that never seems to make sense to me.

Anyway, IJ is the way to go for me, then I also now really like NetBeans for its UML and Swing development. Then Eclipse is my last choice.

Mark


Perfect World Programming, LLC - Two Laptop Bag - Tube Organizer
How to Ask Questions the Smart Way FAQ
Dmitry Jemerov
author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 24, 2006
Posts: 120
Igor,

From the data I have access to, I see no evidence that IntelliJ IDEA's market share is shrinking.

Of course, there are people who will always choose a free tool over a commercial one regardless of their relative qualities. We cannot target such an audience. And for people who look not only at the price tag but also at the value of different tools, we believe that IntelliJ IDEA has many nice things to offer, including some features which aren't matched by any of our competitors.


Dmitry Jemerov<br />Development Lead<br />JetBrains, Inc.<br /><a href="http://www.jetbrains.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.jetbrains.com/</a><br />"Develop with Pleasure"
Gian Franco
blacksmith
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 16, 2003
Posts: 977
Where can one find these IDE statistics, are they Gartner reports?

Gian


"Eppur si muove!"
Adam Schaible
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 04, 2007
Posts: 101
So in my opinion, features aren't really the driving factor for choosing an IDE.

You've heard it before -
I like what I know.
I know what I like.

As horribly pathetic as it is, I have to get a LOT out of an IDE switch for it to make sense. Consider a company that has 50 or more developers that have different levels of commitment to the industry - the idea of learning a new IDE isn't that appealing to your audience. Also, if I want to hire new developers, I can be confident that they probably have some eclipse experience.

I'm not trying to make an argument for or against any IDE, I'm just trying to offer a different path to a decision, and what I think is a more realistic scenario.
Chris Welsh
Greenhorn

Joined: Nov 08, 2007
Posts: 1
My experience with Jetbrains has been that customer support has been outstanding. The few bugs I've raised have been dealt with swiftly, and the general attitude has been one of gratitude that I've helped make their product more stable and robust.
Abiodun Adisa
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 17, 2002
Posts: 495
The best IDE in my own opinion is Eclipse and I think it is kind of the standard IDE for Java Development , even Jbuilder has dumped its IDE to use eclipse for its current IDE, I use rational Application Developer 7.0 at work , which has a tone of features you can't get in any IDE existing today, For my personal projects i use Myeclipse (boy those folks make developing JSF/hibernate projects) the down side of eclipse is that it requires a lot of System resources. At work i use 3GB memory 2.9Ghz which is not sometimes enough and at home I use 4GB memory 3.2GHz and this does'nt stop my eclipse from sometimes Freezing
Ernest Friedman-Hill
author and iconoclast
Marshal

Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: 24184
    
  34

First, note that McDonalds sells more food than any other restaurant in the world. Does this mean they are the best restaurant in the world? Far from it. Does it mean they are cheap and ubiquitous? Yep. It's hard to fight against something that is dirt cheap and everywhere.

Another problem with comparing different IDEs is that they constantly leapfrog each other, and any one person rarely has extensive experience with several most recent versions of both. Is X more stable than Y? Well, what version of each? Does Y have a feature X lacks? Well, what version? The problem is especially acute with Eclipse, given that so many vendors build add-ons for it. Has any one person used the base system, or a commercial platform on top of it? There are maybe six commercial versions of Eclipse that have a combined market share we're talking about here.

My experience has been 1) that IDEA has more and better refactoring features than bare Eclipse, and 2) Eclipse drives me mad with its bizarre vocabulary and insistence on organizing projects its own way (plenty of Eclipse fans have told me otherwise, but sorry, 'taint so. IDEA lets you put your stuff wherever you want with a minimum of fuss, while Eclipse forces you to explain yourself.) These two features alone have made me a big fan.


[Jess in Action][AskingGoodQuestions]
John Lindwall
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 29, 2002
Posts: 31
IDEA has been my IDE of choice for 5 years or so now. However I have no compunction against firing up Eclipse or NetBeans if the task at hand will be performed better using said tool.

Eclipse has an astonishing number of plug-ins and sometime such a plug-in will let me do the work I need easier then in NetBeans or IntelliJ. NetBeans has been making rapid strides so sometimes a new JEE feature is easy to experiment with using that IDE.

The right tool for the job.

But for heads-down coding and refactoring I can never seem to resist IDEA.
 
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