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Partition Magic with win2k/redhat

Bill Koo
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 05, 2002
Posts: 13
I installed win2000 adv server first and then redhat,but failed. Some articles say,I need to install win2k at c:\partition on entire disk,then use Partition Magic to resize and move the win2k partition back,to let 50--100M unformatted room for linux /boot at the begining,and also don't let c:\ partition past 1024 sector marks. what does that not past 1024 sector mean? How to deal with it? Anybody successful use this way to dual boot?
Your reply is appreciated.
Bill
Tim Holloway
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Jun 25, 2001
Posts: 16019
    
  20

I don't know who told you that, but I hope I never go there for advice! You can make the Win2k partition whatever size you prefer and likewise the Linux partitions.
The main problem is that old familiar collection of hacks and patches, your BIOS. The disk architecture in the BIOS is based on the old CP/M BIOS disk tabbles, when CP/M ran in 4K (Not Megabytes, KILObytes) of memory. The disk table parcelled out bytes and nybbles for cylinders, heads, and sectors, and the OS used that info to find things. 1024 is 3 nybbles, if I've counted right, and that's how much space was alloted to the cylinder part. The head part was one byte, which is why LBA disks fake things to make it look like large disks have 255 heads. Problem is, even with all those fake heads, 1024 cylinders is only about 8GB. After that a new set of hacks has to be used, all of which means that it can be difficult to boot from any partition above the 8GB line.
The easy way out it to either have one disk for each OS or to make your C drive 2GB, put in Linux but reserve some space, then create a D drive on the reserved space for the rest of your Windows stuff. If you're not using a FAT16 partition, you can be more than 2 GB, but you want the boot code in Linux to be below that fatal 8GB mark.
Not all systems will have problems that way, though. The one I'm sitting in front of has Linux somewhere above the 15GB mark using the "lba32" boot option in LILO. Also, I think GRUB may not have this problem, but I'm not sure yet.
[ February 06, 2002: Message edited by: Tim Holloway ]

Customer surveys are for companies who didn't pay proper attention to begin with.
Bill Koo
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 05, 2002
Posts: 13
Tim,
The article is from this linux forum and the link is http://www.lincezone.com/linux/dualboot.htm .
I know you perhaps use another the LILO Linux boot loader to dual boot win2000 and linux. The way that the above article mentioned seems complicated. So,do you have the same kind of article(I mean step by step in details) for linux/win2000 beginners to follow? I know some developers do want to shift java programming from windows to linux,but they can't give up win2000 right now.
Your reply is appreciated.
Bill
Guy Allard
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 24, 2000
Posts: 776
Hi Bill - I've read this a couple of times, and have to ask exactly what failed?
Was it the install, or the 1st boot of Linux?
For each case, exactly what happened?
Regards, Guy
Bill Koo
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 05, 2002
Posts: 13
Have two partitions,primary for win2k advance server,install no problem. Then install redhat7.2,custom install type,manual disk druid:hda1(ntfs),hda2(/boot,linux native),hda5(/,linux),hda6(swap,linux),hda7(/home,linux),format,create boot disk(some error,I skip it creating),boot record on /dev/hda MBR....all ok,but when reboot,no w2k only linux. And also can't use partition magic again.
Bill
Tim Holloway
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Jun 25, 2001
Posts: 16019
    
  20

question: does FDISK still show your Win2K partition? I have to ask, because your other partitions seem to indicate that you didn't do a "custom" install, so -- as I mentioned before -- the RedHat install would have simploy wiped out all pre-existing data.
Bill Koo
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 05, 2002
Posts: 13
FDISK show all partitions. But now can't delete linux part. Custom install,hda1(ntfs) not set mount point,others do. Anybody knows the simplies way to dual boot?
Bill
Guy Allard
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 24, 2000
Posts: 776
Hi - If you formatted hda1 during the Linux install, then W2K is indeed gone, and you will need to reinstall it.
When you get that done, re-install PM and ***make a PM rescue disk***. They are quite handy.
I think you will also then have to re-install Linux.
My advice would be to *not* put a Linux boot loader in the MBR. Leave the W2K loader there, install Lilo to whichever hda? is the / mount point. This will make it possible to (in future) re-install W2K without distrubing Linux. ***Make a boot floppy*** during the install - you will need it to complete setting up a dual boot environment.
When you get all this done, you should have a system which boots W2K per normal, amd Linux will boot from the floppy. At that time, get back to me here, and I (or Tim or someone) will give you instructions for setting up a dual boot environment from the W2K loader.
Regards, Guy
Bill Koo
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 05, 2002
Posts: 13
Guy,
I'd re-install,but if I install lilo at /,do I need /boot,or only / and swap for simplicity? As I see /boot/map,/boot/boot.b...in the lilo.conf,maybe we will use it later.
Can I create the boot floppy if I haven't mount /dev/fd0? As I failed creating floppy last time,I don't know why.
Bill
Guy Allard
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 24, 2000
Posts: 776
Bill - I'd say first get a W2K reinstall done (C: is the whole drive) , PM install done, create PM rescue disk.
If you decide to go this route, keep me posted, I'll document what to do next.
G.
Bill Koo
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 05, 2002
Posts: 13
OK,I have done the first step.
w2k works fine.
Tim Holloway
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Jun 25, 2001
Posts: 16019
    
  20

Yipes this is a struggle. Take heart, though. One of my machines is a TRIPLE-boot system (Win/98, NT and Linux) and it actually wasn't that hard. Most of the pain was in making sure that each OS had its boot partition below the 8GB limit.
Guy Allard
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 24, 2000
Posts: 776
Bill - OK, boot the PM rescue disk and use it to resize the W2K partition. In the space left, just create 1 large Linux partition (you will change this during the Linux install).
Power down and Boot W2K. This is kind of a sanity check to make sure the resize is OK.
Using W2K, get a floppy disk and run a *full* format of it - at the end, make sure it has no bad tracks - the end of format will report this.
Insert the Linux install CD, shut & Power down, power up, booting the Linux install CD.
Select install options for manual partition (I like disk druid if that is an option).
- *Do not* touch the W2K partition - it probably shows up as /dev/hda1.
- Delete the large Linux partition you added with PM.
- Add the Linux partitions you really want. Since you are new at this, I'm going to suggest the following setup (other folks may disagree, but this will be a good start):
1) Add a 64M partition at mount point /boot.
2) Add a swap partition (good size partially depends on your system RAM, but do 256M if you can afford the space, don't go below 64M).
3) Add the last linux partition using the remaining space, at mount point /.
These points may not be in install order but:
- Only format the new Linux partitions you created, not W2K (/dev/hda1). Formatting that will destroy W2K. Format all the new Linux partitions.
- Install lilo to the /boot partition (probably /dev/hda5, but may not be, make sure this is right).
- Create a boot floppy when asked.
At the end of the install, remove floppy and install, CD, I would power down.
At this point you should have a system that:
1) Boots W2K from the hard drive (check this).
2) Boots Linux from the floppy (check this).
When you reach this point, I'll get back with yet more instructions (almost there!!!).
When you boot Linux from the floppy, please do a:
df -m
Cut and paste the results here, so we can take a look at it.
Regards, Guy
Guy Allard
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 24, 2000
Posts: 776
Originally posted by Tim Holloway:
... One of my machines is a TRIPLE-boot system (Win/98, NT and Linux) and it actually wasn't that hard. ...

Tim - One of my machines had exactly that OS config. until just recently. It is now XPPro (all of the primary IDE drive), and RH 7.1 (all of the slave drive).
The multi-boot setup is indeed tedious, but once you've done one they are pretty simple I agree.
Regards, Guy
Bill Koo
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 05, 2002
Posts: 13
Guy,
I can dual boot win2k/linux now,using floppy to boot Redhat7.2. This time I tried to use a very small disk and basic installation. The results of df -m are as follows:
Filesystem 1M-blocks used Available Use%Mounted on
/dev/hda5 1422 972 378 72%/
/dev/hda2 61 6 52 10%/boot
none 62 0 61 0%/dev/shm
You have mail in /var/spool/mail/root
So next we can try to boot both from a menu,right?
Thanks.
Bill
kumar_java
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 12, 2002
Posts: 8
Hi,
I am not an expert in dual booting.. but tried for over six months to get it right. Finally, I have seem to get it somewhat right.
My home machine I dual boot Red Hat 7.2, 98, and 2000 server. The boot loader to boot Red Hat is the NT boot loader.
If you are having all the OSes on one hard then NT takes the first partition.
So, install Red Hat on another partition. Make sure that u install the GRUB or LILO into the linux partition NOT the primary partition. Next make sure u create a boot floppy.
After installation, boot red hat using the boot floppy.
Copy the 512 bytes boot sector of the linux partition into a file and into a floppy using..
dd if=/dev/hda3 bs=512 count=1 of=/mnt/floppy/linux.bin
In my machine the linux boot sector in on hda3. You need to change for your partition. Next linux.bin is an arbitrary file name. You can give any name u want.
Next, boot into 2000. Copy the linux.bin file into C: or anywhere u want (I prefer C . Edit your boot.ini file and add a line at the end of it like:
C:\linux.bin="Red Hat Linux 7.2"
where C:\linux.bin is the location of the file in my machine. Of course, you can give any name u want for your "<text>" above.
Next, time when u restart ur machine, you should be able to boot linux using NT boot loader.
Hope this helps. Please note that I am just a beginner to Linux.
Guy Allard
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 24, 2000
Posts: 776
Hi Bill - Kumar has effectively outlined what we do next, but
my instructions will differ in some details.
1) Get another absolutely clean floppy, formatted under W2K.
2) Shutdown W2K, boot Linux from the floppy created during install.
3) After boot, and login as root, physically remove the install floppy.
4) Insert the clean DOS/Win floppy and issue:
mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy
5) Change to the /etc directory.
5.5) Issue:
cp lilo.conf lilo.conf.orig
(A backup of the config file just in case).
6) Edit the 'lilo.conf' file (Bill, as Tim said somewhere Unix editors are almost a religion. I use 'vi', but maybe you will like 'emacs' or one of the other editors installed).
7) Based on the output of 'df -m' above, you have /boot mounted on hda2.
This is also (per previous directions) where you installed lilo.
So in the lilo.conf file there are two places that need to indicate this.
First is the boot= line in the 'general' section.
It will usually be the 1st line in the file, and should say:
boot=/dev/hda2
Next is the root= line in the 1st (default, and in your case only) 'image' section. This part should look like:
image=/boot/.......
 root=/dev/hda2
8) Save lilo.conf and exit the editor.
9) Issue the command:
lilo -v
You should see a small number of messages indicating what lilo is doding. If you see any real errors, post them here.
10) Issue the command:
dd if=/dev/hda2 of=/bootsect.lnx bs=512 count=1
Bill - note that if= is /dev/hda2, not /dev/hda3 as Kumar has shown.
This creates a file 'bootsect.lnx' in the / directory. It should be exactly 512 bytes long, and contains a copy of the executable boot loader.
11) Issue the commands:
cd /
cp bootsect.lnx /mnt/floppy
umount /dev/fd0
12) Remove the floppy, shutdown your Linux system, and reboot W2K.
13) Copy (using My Computer, Win Explorer, or just a DOS copy command) the 'bootsect.lnx' file from the floppy to C:\
14) In C:\ there is another file named 'boot.ini'. It is a text file, and you
need to edit it (notepad).
This file normally has the DOS attributes 'readonly, hidden, system'.
You need to reset the 'readonly' bit before you edit it. On WinNT I would
do this with the DOS 'attrib' command. On XP I would do it with 'My Computer'
because 'attrib' does not exist on XP. I do not know how well (or if) W2K
supports the
old DOS commands.
In any case, add as the *last* line of the file:
C:\bootsect.lnx="Linux"
and save the file.
Reset the file to 'readonly'
15) Shutdown your W2K systemm, and reboot. You should see a text screen that allows
you to select which OS you want to boot. W2K should be the default and will
boot automatically after some default time (30 seconds I think).
Use the up/down arrow keys to point at the Linux line, and press enter.
This should initiate a boot of Linux directly from /dev/hda2.
Bill - when you get this done, please let me know here. I then need to pass
on 1 cautionary note about this setup.
Regards, Guy
Bill Koo
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 05, 2002
Posts: 13
Guy,
The instructions are clear and practical. I use another large disk and boot win2kpro/redhat from the boot menu. It's ok now. What's your cautionary note?
Now I use KDE and want install websphere4.0/weblogic6.1 to shift java programs to linux,but I am not sure if redhat7.2 supports ibm http/iplanet web srv;I think it can support apache and tomcat. An interesting trip begins.
Bill
Guy Allard
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 24, 2000
Posts: 776
Hi Bill - OK, 1st the cautionary note.
There will probably come a time when you want to build a custom kernel on Linux. There are a variety of reasons you might want to do this. You'll know it when you need to.
One of the last steps in kernel builds is to modify lilo.conf and re-run 'lilo -v'.
When you do this you must recreate 'bootsect.lnx' using the 'dd' command, and copy the new image to your C:\ W2K drive.
If you do not do this, you will not see the newly build kernel (the old one will boot).
Other thoughts: One of the advantages of the setup you now have, is that (if needed) you should be able to re-install Windows, and not affect your existing Linux install.
Apache and/or Tomcat will run fine on your system (assuming enough disk space, ....). I currently have them both on (a nominally RH 7.2) system, Apache is 1.3.22 and Tomcat is 4.01.
When you start looking at apache.org software, I'll recommend that you get and bootstrap an install of 'Ant' first. It is the (Java-centric) build tool for (almost) all of their woftware. Much nicer that traditional Unix 'make'.
I have yet to have any need for a full blown application server (EJB support), and so cannot really comment on them.
Anyway Bill,
Welcome to the world of Linux, Guy
Bill Koo
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 05, 2002
Posts: 13
Guy,
A good cautionary note and a nice Linux community.
Regards,
Bill
brent farrell
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 04, 2002
Posts: 1
It seems to me that on a dual boot with any window/linex setup you should be able to make a very small non dos boot sector that windows will ignore, but will be used by any linex system. this is at the fist 50m or less.
Elizabeth Reynolds
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 31, 2002
Posts: 24
I suggest using BootMagic, if you have Partition Magic.
On one of my machines, I triple boot, (win98, win2K and linux), but I have two drives. Wins are installed on the first drive and linux on the second. The whole process was relatively straight forward with Partition Magic/Boot Magic.
Windows 98 has to be installed on the first physical drive, but I don't believe that constraint is in effect for Win 2k and Linux. They can be installed on any drive anywhere.
You should use the ext2 file system for your Linux partition and install a small swap Linux partition as well as the primary. Also, don't install your Linux bootloader on the MBR record (used by Windows), but use the primary partition where you installed Linux. Then you can use BootMagic to control the dual boot.
Also, I used FAT32 for my Windows partitions rather than NTFS for WIN2K (your hard drive manufacturer has to support large disk partitions to use it), otherwise I could not dual boot, but that might have more to do with combining Win98 and Win2K rather than Windows and Linux. Anyway, with FAT32 you don't have to worry about the 8GB limit.
Guy Allard
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 24, 2000
Posts: 776
Hi Elizabeth - I just wanted to make a couple of comments.
Yes, Boot/Partition Magic can be a very nice setup. Very easy, and all works well.
One caveat for other users: The PQ people have had problems with BootMagic on HP Pavilions. True for release 4 and release 7 in my personal experience.
However, PartitionMagic works well on these machines. I like and continue to use it.
At one time there was a lot of traffic on their support site about the Pavilion/BM problems. I even offered to give up one of my machines as a test bed, but never heard anything from them.
Just wanted to let folks know, ..... Guy
[ April 06, 2002: Message edited by: Guy Allard ]
nishanth mv
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 11, 2004
Posts: 2
Hi,
I'm having a Win2K machine with 30 GB HDD with three partitions (C,D and E) of 10GB(approax) each. The partion "C" in which Win2K installed is partitioned in NTFS and the other two are in FAT32. I've installed Redhat8 in the partition E and configured the Lilo to be in MBR. Both Linux and Windows are working fine except with a small problem in Win2K. It is still showing the drive E with usage FULL !!. Window explorer hangs when I double click on MyComputer. There is no other problems in other softwares' working. I find this very annoying. Please help me in solving this..
regards
Nishanth
Tim Holloway
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Jun 25, 2001
Posts: 16019
    
  20

Are you sure that the Explorer doesn't show the E drive using a CD-ROM icon?
Windows shouldn't be displaying Linux filesystems at all. As far as I know, no one ever got around to writing a Windows filesystem driver that works with ext2, ext3 or any of the other popular Linux filesystems. If they have, you'd still need to install it into Windows before you could see the Linux filesystem.
nishanth mv
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 11, 2004
Posts: 2
Hi Tim,
My PC doesn't have any CD ROM Drive or Floppy drive !!. I feel the problem may be due to improper partition boundary between D and E drives. When I created Linux partitions in E drive some portions(~ 5-6 MB) may be left over, which the windows may be showing as drive E now (after installing linux). i.e. it is not showing actual linux partition.

regards
Nishanth
Guy Allard
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 24, 2000
Posts: 776
Tim - I have not used these, but ...
http://uranus.it.swin.edu.au/~jn/linux/explore2fs.htm
http://ext2.yeah.net (You'll get a redirect here)
Anyway, there are folks hacking in this area ....
Regards, Guy
 
I agree. Here's the link: http://aspose.com/file-tools
 
subject: Partition Magic with win2k/redhat