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Leopard's off and running, but where's Mustang?

Unnsse Khan
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Joined: Nov 12, 2001
Posts: 511
What does everyone think about this article?

I run an Intel iMac and the way I have combated this problem is by installing VMware Fusion and running Ubuntu Feisty Fawn and Solaris Express Developer Edition as virtual machines.

Whereas this seems to be the *BEST* of both worlds (using Solaris or Linux as development environments and still being able to use all the cool features of OS X Leopard), I still want to see JDK 1.6 appear on the Mac.

Has anyone heard if Apple has discontinued support for it or if Apple is preparing a new JVM release?

I am still crossing my fingers...

What have others done? Has anyone switched to a Solaris notebook or installed Ubuntu for their prospective Java development environments?

Happy programming,
[ November 03, 2007: Message edited by: Unnsse Khan ]
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
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  65

Originally posted by Unnsse Khan:
What have others done?
I don't adopt a new Java version until long after it's been proven in the field. So Java 5 will be suiting my needs for some time to come.


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Unnsse Khan
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Joined: Nov 12, 2001
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Thanks for the response, Bear:

But you still can't run something like J2ME on OS X...

And also remember, Java 6 is also a platform and should be seen a JVM which you can use to run cool 3rd party apps and utilize scripting support. That article addresses how Java 6 is now the fastest JVM in the market.

Kindest regards,
Bear Bibeault
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Right, if you need Java 6, you need Java 6 and a virtual machine is a good workaround. You asked what others were doing, so I told you: I don't need java 6, and won't for some time to come.

My question is, with the tremendous growth in market penetration of OS X, when is Sun going to get off its keester and provide direct support?
Unnsse Khan
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It wants to supply direct support but can't because Apple insists on making its own JVM.
Bear Bibeault
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Do you have evidence to support this? My understand, which admittedly could be incorrect, is that Apple creates their own JVM because Sun will not.

Even so, why would the existence of an Apple JVM prevent Sun from creating their own?
[ November 04, 2007: Message edited by: Bear Bibeault ]
Ulf Dittmer
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Probably contractual stipulations. It used to be (back in the JDK 1.0.2 days) that the Sun JDK provided a horrible UI experience on the Mac, so Apple took over. I wouldn't be surprised if the license agreement specifies that Sun will not come out with a competing JVM.


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Sonny Gill
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I read James Gosling say a few days ago that 'Apple wanted to do it'.
Gosling blog

Frankly the absence of newest JDK on mac os doesn't bother me too much, but since so many Java developers seem to be adopting and recommending Apple, it would be nice if Apple clarified its position on this issue.


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Bert Bates
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    5
You all know I love Macs - even for the 8 years I was forced to develop for PCs :roll:

That said, I've always felt - from 1984 to the present that, as Gosling so aptly put it, developers are NOT Apple's "target demographic"


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Bear Bibeault
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Originally posted by Sonny Gill:
it would be nice if Apple clarified its position on this issue.

Agreed! Apple is doing themselves no favors by playing so close to the vest. If they are going to support Java 6, let us know; even if a date canot yet be committed to.
[ November 04, 2007: Message edited by: Bear Bibeault ]
marc weber
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Joined: Aug 31, 2004
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Originally posted by Unnsse Khan:
... What have others done? ...

Nothing. I'm fine waiting.


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Hussein Baghdadi
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The problem is Apple is showing no indicator of when Java SE 6 will be available, Java SE 6 is out since last year, not a month.
This is really sad because I have been considering a Mac since the last two years but I'm afraid Apple will not support Java any more.
It is not about Tiger, Mustang or Dolphin, it is about their vision for Java.
Even James Gosling switch to Solaris.
Ulf Dittmer
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Originally posted by John Todd:
I'm afraid Apple will not support Java any more. It is not about Tiger, Mustang or Dolphin, it is about their vision for Java.

Java 5 on 10.5 is much improved over Java 5 on 10.4, so I don't think you need to worry about Apple not supporting Java. Also, the Java 6 preview that was available was reportedly quite functional and complete; it'd be a waste to not finish and release that, not to mention the bad PR is would cause.
Even James Gosling switch to Solaris.

Gosling lives at the bleeding edge of Java; it's no surprise that the lack of Java 6 is a deal-breaker for him. In that respect he's different from most of the rest of us.
marc weber
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Originally posted by John Todd:
The problem is Apple is showing no indicator of when Java SE 6 will be available...

What's old is new again.

I switched to Mac on April 29, 2005 when Tiger (the OS) came out. At that time, there was consternation among Java developers, because Java 5 was expected to be included with the new OS, but it wasn't. (The developer preview versions of the OS apparently did include Java 5.) A beta version of Java 5 could be downloaded to run on Tiger, but (as I recall) Java 5 was not actually gold for Mac until about a year after Sun's release.

After weathering this storm once, I have faith that things will work out fine for Java 6 on Mac.

(And I think Ulf made an excellent point about James Gosling.)
Jesper de Jong
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I'm not a Mac user, but I listen to The Java Posse and they have been talking about Apple and the missing Java 6 in the last few episodes.

A lot of people are disappointed that there's no Java 6 on Leopard - Java 6 has been out on other platform for almost a year already, so it's about time. The version of Java 5 that's included with Leopard is however not exactly the same as the current version on Tiger; it's an updated version. But not all changes in the new Java 5 are for the better, it seems that 2D graphics are slower, which has annoyed some Java developers with Macs even more.

The most annoying thing is that Apple is completely silent on the issue - nobody knows when or even if there is going to be a Java 6 for the Mac or even if Apple is interested in Java at all.

(I'm happy with my Ubuntu laptop... )


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Hussein Baghdadi
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Originally posted by Jesper Young:

(I'm happy with my Ubuntu laptop... )

Actually, I'm considering Solaris Express Developer Edition or Ubuntu...
marc weber
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In a thread that's now closed, Ulf implied that Apple's beta version of Java 1.6 is no longer available for download. I was not aware of this. I just looked for it, but don't see it anywhere in their developer's download area. When did this happen, and any ideas why?
Bear Bibeault
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Java SE 6 Developer Preview 8
Apple has recently released a new developer preview of Java SE 6 for Leopard via the Apple Developer Connection (ADC) site at http://connect.apple.com/

The Java SE 6 release for Leopard is targeted at Java developers. This version of Java for Mac OS X requires an Intel-based Mac capable of running 64-bit applications, including computers with Core 2 Duo processors and any Mac Pro computer. Java SE 6 takes advantage of Leopard's 64-bit capabilities to offer unique performance capabilities for current and future generations of Macs. Please see the release notes included with the Java SE 6 download for additional information about this preview release.

[ December 19, 2007: Message edited by: Bear Bibeault ]
Ulf Dittmer
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This version of Java for Mac OS X requires an Intel-based Mac capable of running 64-bit applications

It's great to see new beta versions, but this requirement hurts. And even if it gets relaxed by release (and that's a big if), I'm betting that the reliance on 10.5 won't
marc weber
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Posts: 11343

Originally posted by Ulf Dittmer:
...It's great to see new beta versions, but this requirement hurts. And even if it gets relaxed by release (and that's a big if), I'm betting that the reliance on 10.5 won't

+1

I downloaded the old Java 6 beta before it was removed, but I haven't installed it. I'm using G4 and G5 machines still running Tiger. I can't decide whether to buy Leopard for these or move to an Intel machine. I really don't want to spend the money on a new computer now, but...
 
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subject: Leopard's off and running, but where's Mustang?
 
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