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Why study XML???

N Gupta
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 07, 2001
Posts: 13
Recently, I passed SCJP test on Aug.4. (I am on high octane ).
I am trying to find out the next logical course to take, i.e, what certification can help in value addition that will use my Java knowledge. I thought may be XML. I want to know where exactly XML finds application and what combinations along with XML or Java can make a good career move for me as for everyone out there (who are SCJP'ites). Isn't C#/.NET will pose a challenge to Java (ofcourse, everyone knows Microsoft ). So, why go for XML. I wanna know some solid convincing reasons to study XML or any other tech. Can anyone throw a light why XML should be studied & from where (how a beginner can start)? Thanks.

Andrew Shafer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 19, 2001
Posts: 338

XML gives you an extensible non proprietary way to store and transfer data, that can be easily read by humans and software alike.
XML is just a toddler now, and growing like a weed.

!_I_Know_Kung_Fu_!
N Gupta
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 07, 2001
Posts: 13
Thanks Andrew.
Is there other language which can do a better job than XML. May be Microsoft is developing something under the sleeves . Is there someone who can compare .NET tech with Java tech. I want to make sure which one is going to work in long run, before embarking on a new journey. In think Java tech is finding use in wireless applications, a future goldmine. Any comments?

>>>>>>>>>>>
XML gives you an extensible non proprietary way to store and transfer data, that can be easily read by humans and software alike.
XML is just a toddler now, and growing like a weed.
Ashish Jaiman
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 01, 2001
Posts: 47
First of all XML is not a language its a more of a methodology for storing text data, XML is not proprietary, its open and anybody can use it its more of a concept to store data and transfer data in text format which can be understood but disparate systems, then there is XSL(T) which can be considered as a language to transform XML document to another XML document.
U can use XML with any language which can work with text files be it Java, C++, or VB(Microsoft), all u need is a parser (which u can write ur own in ur language of choice) to work.
Microsoft is not developing anything under the sleeves the things are in open like Dot Net that has XML underlying everywhere in the architecture and support for applications build to use XML, Web Services is what I think would be next major thing, where u can talk to disparate Programs, execute methods and get data as XML over HTTP (mainly)
Comparing JAVA to DOTNET would be pretty interesting as one of the main difference is JAVA applications are mostly platform neutral while applications in DOTNET would be Language neutral like write in ur preferable language and talk to different DOTNET languages, also In Java World there are both pros and cons of having so many vendors for ur enterprise application in Microsoft world One vendor (Microsoft) does it all and it has its own merits and demerits.
C# from Microsoft is a copy of Java but obviously more features and better in terms of GUI and Event handling (obvious because it took concepts from Java world and VB world). Similarly ASP DOT Net has more and better
I think in long run both Java and DOT Net would be winners as competition brings out the best.
-AJ
SCJP
MCSD
[This message has been edited by Ashish Jaiman (edited August 09, 2001).]


-AJ<br />Sun Certified Java Programmer<br />Microsoft Certified Software Developer
N Gupta
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 07, 2001
Posts: 13
Interesting reply from Ashish.
First, I do not agree that XML is not a language (it is a language, acronym itself says that). Leaving aside that, I found the points interesting.
Microsoft may not be developing anything under the sleeves but I have something in my mind cooking up. Why not develop another advanced version of JAVA++ (which is actually Java ++some --some). Do you guys (ofcourse, I include gals here ) think that concept of multiple inheritance useless? No, I think that it is quite relevant in practical life (child can have characteristics of both father & mother). In fact, Java acknowlegdes that multiple inheritance is needed as Java provides a workaround in the form of interfaces. It is funny that abstract methods are written and that are implemented by blank methods in adapters. Why not accept the fact multiple inheritance is needed!! We have '+' overloaded for strings but no other operator overloading in Java . I believe that these features & other concepts can be put in new Java language, which I call JAVA++. Do you support me guys!!! huh..
Now, coming to other point. Lot of water has flowed in Ganges river and is flowing in tech world. I wanted guys & gals to give a thought about emerging technologies. I want to start a discussion on repurcussions of several techs(COM,DCOM,.Dot, .VS, JS, Java, XML, XSL, SAX, C#, etc) and conflict in these tech and likely usage of these tech in future and their impact on the life of IT prof. Experts who are using these techs are welcome to detail the adv. & disadv. of these tech (what company is developing these, does not matter) , so that good come out of all froth, which hopefully provide guidance to budding pros.
I believe that Ashish was on target what I wanted to start a chain of thoughts from SCJP'ites/MCSD'ites/ etc. Lets be part of this great discussion and benefit!!!
NG
SCJP
------------
First of all XML is not a language its a more of a methodology for storing text data, XML is not proprietary, its open and anybody can use it its more of a concept to store data and transfer data in text format which can be understood but disparate systems, then there is XSL(T) which can be considered as a language to transform XML document to another XML document.
U can use XML with any language which can work with text files be it Java, C++, or VB(Microsoft), all u need is a parser (which u can write ur own in ur language of choice) to work.
Microsoft is not developing anything under the sleeves the things are in open like Dot Net that has XML underlying everywhere in the architecture and support for applications build to use XML, Web Services is what I think would be next major thing, where u can talk to disparate Programs, execute methods and get data as XML over HTTP (mainly)
Comparing JAVA to DOTNET would be pretty interesting as one of the main difference is JAVA applications are mostly platform neutral while applications in DOTNET would be Language neutral like write in ur preferable language and talk to different DOTNET languages, also In Java World there are both pros and cons of having so many vendors for ur enterprise application in Microsoft world One vendor (Microsoft) does it all and it has its own merits and demerits.
C# from Microsoft is a copy of Java but obviously more features and better in terms of GUI and Event handling (obvious because it took concepts from Java world and VB world). Similarly ASP DOT Net has more and better
I think in long run both Java and DOT Net would be winners as competition brings out the best.
-AJ
SCJP
MCSD
David Weitzman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 27, 2001
Posts: 1365
Why do you believe that multi-inheritence is necessary? Sure you can name abstract problems that it solves, but can you give us an actual, real-world situation in which interfaces are not enough? As it is, a lot of c++ code is spent imitating Java's interfaces and accepting the limitations. Why? Because it is good design. The book Design Patterns doesn't even mention Java, just SmallTalk and C++, yet every single pattern in there fits Java perfectly.
Also, it is a good thing that Java doesn't have operator overloading. It means consistency. Not only do you save compilers a lot of trouble, but you make the code easier for programmers to understand and more bug-free.
Ashish Jaiman
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 01, 2001
Posts: 47
I totally agree with David and also there is no need to bring out java++(--) i think we should concentrate on enterprise software development issues then keep on improving and fit in every thing that is possible in a language just because the compititor has ++ or # appended, we need to make investment in problems which would solve enterprise issues, internationalization issues and make solutions more reliable and pluggable and provide all handles in the platform(language) to do so and i think sun(java) has and is doing excellent job by providing its enterprise APIs and concepts and let vendors build solutions over them

------------------
-AJ
Sun Certified Java Programmer
Microsoft Certified Software Developer
N Gupta
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 07, 2001
Posts: 13
Absolutely, I believe mul inheritance is necessary. Its v. simple to prove that interfaces are just the workaround for extending the features of more than one base/parent classes. Do you think that a child has only features of mother or father. No one can believe it. Not even Darwin . Anyway, my purpose of writing this post was to bring out the best of all worlds. I believe that Java is a great language, but, we have to enrich it with new ideas. That is the whole purpose of my post, so that everyone participates in this ongoing evolving discussion.
Sure, everyone has right to enhance and embrace new techs and ideas(J2EE,etc). If everyone had accepted status quo and not dreamt likes James Gosling, Scott, etc, we would not have Java today and we would be still in the world of Ada or Lisp. There is nothing wrong in dreaming a new language like JAVA++ or for that matter any new tech. I want experts (novice will do if they have great ideas) to discuss this possibility (sorry no inflamation ). What do you guys think about it?
NG
Great ideas germinate from the seed.
Ashish Jaiman
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 01, 2001
Posts: 47
I think u can always work around to get multiple inheritance behavior by interfaces, delegation, the reason I think of having any feature, anywhere is just the cost benefit ratio of features and learning /ease of use, ya every one in the world wants everything and in the space of reasoning features are more of needs then wants but u have to take the middle way where ur needs(wants) does not make the whole thing so complex that just in the matter of time from need they become unproductive, I agree with u that status quo is unacceptable in this line of work and there needs to be innovations but the whole paradigm of computing has changed very much in last few years and focus has to be shifted, innovations in enterprise computing should be the priority and other priority should be ease of use and faster learning curves so that the results are more effective and efficient
------------------
-AJ
Sun Certified Java Programmer
Microsoft Certified Software Developer
Ajith Kallambella
Sheriff

Joined: Mar 17, 2000
Posts: 5782
Sorry to rain the parade, but I would like you to keep the discussion focussed on the original topic. You are more than welcome to discuss non-XML issues in other Java-related forums under the Big Moose Saloon....
Thank!
------------------
Ajith Kallambella M.
Sun Certified Programmer for the Java�2 Platform.
IBM Certified Developer - XML and Related Technologies, V1.


Open Group Certified Distinguished IT Architect. Open Group Certified Master IT Architect. Sun Certified Architect (SCEA).
N Gupta
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 07, 2001
Posts: 13
Lets discuss and talk about new upcoming acronymns (na.. techs) and their impact on future web services development: here we go
XML-RPC, XQL, XML, XSL, XSLT, XPath, XLink, XPointer, XSP, JAXP, SAX, DOM, JDOM, JDBC, OLAP, RSS, EJB, J2EE...
For your benefit: Acronyms meaning
XML: Extensible/eXpert Markup Language
XSL: Extensible Stylesheet Language
SAX: Simple API for XML
JAXP: Java API for XML Parsing
DOM: Document Object Model
XQL: XML Query Language
RSS: Rich Site Summary
For Beginners:
SGML: Standard Generalized Markup Language
W3C: World Wide Web Consortium
Does someone want to add few more ? go ahead
NG
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
Does someone want to add few more?
DTD, SOAP, Schema (if not only acronyms are allowed) , JSP, DCD (document content description - plgiarized from venkat paruchuri's today post)
[This message has been edited by Mapraputa Is (edited August 15, 2001).]


Uncontrolled vocabularies
"I try my best to make *all* my posts nice, even when I feel upset" -- Philippe Maquet
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
Few more:
WSDL (the Web Services Description Language).
UDDI (Universal Description, Discovery, and Integration)
IIOP (Internet Inter-ORB Protocol)
CPP (Collaboration Protocol Profile)
JAXB (The Java API for XML Binding)
JAXM (The Java API for XML Messaging)
JMS (the Java Message Service)
JAXR (the Java API for XML Registries)
JCA (The J2EE Connector Architecture)
If to speak seriously, I have an increasing feeling that something is wrong with current state-of-affairs in software development... Maybe it's only me.

[This message has been edited by Mapraputa Is (edited August 15, 2001).]
N Gupta
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 07, 2001
Posts: 13
Getting interesting
Lets make this link as defacto standard in acronymns so that it helps everyone, i.e, single point reference. I am going to add some more (when posting, write acronym and its full extension for benefit of all).

 
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