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This week's giveaway

Ajith Kallambella
Sheriff

Joined: Mar 17, 2000
Posts: 5782
This Week we are giving away four copies of the book "Strategic XML". To qualify for the drawing, simply participate in discussions in this forum.
And the best part... the author, W. Scott Means is online to answer your questions!
Have fun!
------------------
Ajith Kallambella M.
Sun Certified Programmer for the Java�2 Platform.
IBM Certified Developer - XML and Related Technologies, V1.


Open Group Certified Distinguished IT Architect. Open Group Certified Master IT Architect. Sun Certified Architect (SCEA).
Kelly Aus
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 04, 2001
Posts: 90
Wow! That's great! at last people are paying attention to XML as well! Otherwise they have number of posts 10 times from us So guys lets gear up and make this place xmlranch
Ajith won't mind it as well
[This message has been edited by Kelly Aus (edited October 16, 2001).]
Ajith Kallambella
Sheriff

Joined: Mar 17, 2000
Posts: 5782
Let me extend a warm welcome to Scott Means from all of us here at the JavaRanch XML community.
Welcome Scott!
Mike Whitehorne
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 17, 2001
Posts: 11
I have not seen the Scott's latest book yet, but his co-authored O'Reilly Nutshell book "XML in a Nutshell : A Desktop Quick Reference" was very good.
Ritu Kama
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 10, 2001
Posts: 72
Hi Scott,
Welcome to JavaRanch! Looking forward to the discussions we have in this forum.
Ritu
W. Scott Means
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 27, 2001
Posts: 28
Glad to be here! I'll try to reply as promptly as I can, between times where I have to go chase after my 17 month old son. "Working from home" is somewhat of a misnomer, for those of you that have tried it...
------------------
W. Scott Means
author, Strategic XML
smeans@strategicxml.com


<A HREF="http://www.scottmeans.com" TARGET=_blank rel="nofollow">W. Scott Means</A><BR>author, <A HREF="http://www.strategicxml.com" TARGET=_blank rel="nofollow">Strategic XML</A><BR> <A HREF="mailto:smeans@strategicxml.com" rel="nofollow">smeans@strategicxml.com</A>
Fei Ng
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 1242
Hi author,
Is your book good for beginners??
I am 100% new to XML. Only have heard about it.
And does your book base on real world examples?
thanks.
Fei Ng
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 1242
Oh yeah!!

And welcome to Javaranch.
Hema Menon
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 29, 2000
Posts: 569
Scott,
"Strategic XML", Interesting name for a title!
Wonder what the contents are! Would'nt hurt to find out by winning your book What all topics to you cover in your book? How is it different from any other XML Book available? Who's the expected audience for the book?

Thanks,
Hema


~hm
Ajith Kallambella
Sheriff

Joined: Mar 17, 2000
Posts: 5782
Hema, you might want to checkout the contents of the book here -http://www.strategicxml.com/book_online.htm
W. Scott Means
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 27, 2001
Posts: 28
I guess I'll try to answer both Fei's and Menon's questions at the same time. Strategic XML is basically my attempt to help people who are responsible for building IT systems decide where XML can be used to the greatest possible advantage. It's not really for total beginners to XML, although it does include a long tutorial chapter that covers basic XML and XML Schemas. If you're already an experienced programmer, you should be able to read the book with no prior knowledge of XML.
The book is divided into three parts. Part I includes the XML tutorial, a chapter that discusses the different XML-related technologies and what they are used for. Another chapter gives a snapshot of the state-of-the-art as far as XML tools and technologies go.
Part II takes a typical large enterprise and breaks it into different zones, based on the types of users and systems they contain. For instance, there's a customer zone where I talk about web publishing and content delivery issues. There's a legacy zone where I talk about connecting systems together using XML messaging.
Part III is the largest section of the book, and it is a series of real-world XML applications. Each chapter in Part III takes a particular problem from the requirements phase through implementation and deployment. The projects include:

  • an XML-based document workflow system
  • a store-and-forward ordering system
  • SOAP client and server examples
  • a legacy integration example (with COBOL code)
  • a dual-media web and print-based publishing example

  • The book is quite short (~250 pages.) The way I kept it that way was to avoid including large blocks of source code in the book itself. The examples are large enough to be interesting (the XSL-FO example is about ~2000 lines long), but simple enough to be easily adapted to your own needs. You can actually go view and download the examples from www.strategicxml.com (but I hope you'll buy the book, for all those great explanations :-))
    The point I tried to make in the book is that, if used correctly, XML will make your life as a programmer MUCH easier. All of the examples were built to illustrate that idea.
    Thanks again for giving me the chance to come in and talk with you all about XML!
    ------------------
    W. Scott Means
    author, Strategic XML
    smeans@strategicxml.com
Tracy Qi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 23, 2001
Posts: 37
I am new to XML. After reading serveral books, I still fell puzzled about the postion of XML in web. Here is the question:
As a very typical web applcaiton. I used DB, jsp , servlet. Where is the position of XML? Do i have to take all the data from DB and format the xml file on the fly? Or take XML file, parse it and insert into DB? All the books are talking about the parsing the data in XML using SAX, DOM. It's pretty tedious to do so. Anybody can give me a hint?
Thanks
ruilin yang
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 25, 2001
Posts: 334
There are several book around about XHTML. This books appears to be used for web page presentation/format. It appears to me that this is not the main intention of XML. Could you please comment on such XHTML stratiges ?
Thanks in advance
Ruilin
Fei Ng
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 1242
is xhtml and xml two different things?
Fei Ng
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 1242
author,
if your book isn't totaly for beginners can you suggest a beginner xml book.
Mikael Rundqvist
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 18, 2001
Posts: 7
Hi,
from what I have experienced so far XML satisfies two very important goals for portable software. Open standard and almost total commitment from the industry to follow and support the standard. If you search on the web for the suffix ML (as in markup language and exclude HTML) you come up with lots of new proposed standards based on XML to describe many different domains. I am currently doing my master thesis which involves the rule engine JESS (Java Expert System Shell) and have been thinking of saving the rules I have designed in som XML format. So last friday I searched the Web to see if there was some proposal for such a standard an voila I found SRML (Simple Rule Markup Language). Of course since XML is really a meta-language the possibility that different standards arises still exists but creating a map between the different standards might not be as hard as between two propriatary formats described with a propriatary meta-language.
ruilin yang
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 25, 2001
Posts: 334
Yes xhtml is different from xml. xhtml uses some xml in html. xhtml also include some other technologies, such as javaScript, etc.
My question is xhtml is not the main intention of the xml stratigy ?
Chris Chen
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 20, 2001
Posts: 11
I have seen the book companion page, it's rather helpful. But, is there anything about taglib?


Chris Chen<br />From Beijing,China
raj sekhar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 16, 2001
Posts: 117
There is shtml too ! And anybody know what is that and how different or similar?
Raj
W. Scott Means
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 27, 2001
Posts: 28
Originally posted by ruilin yang:
There are several book around about XHTML. This books appears to be used for web page presentation/format. It appears to me that this is not the main intention of XML. Could you please comment on such XHTML stratiges ?
Thanks in advance
Ruilin

Well, as for whether XML is intended for web page presentation and formatting, the answer is yes and no. XML is a great format for representing all types of document content. There are also lots of great tools for transforming XML into other display formats (such as HTML, WAP, PDF, etc.)
XML is not a good format to deliver directly to a web browser. Even if all of your site viewers want to use a browser like IE 5.0 (which support XSLT on the client side), it's still a cumbersome way to do things. But on the server side, converting all of your systems to serve and receive XML content will open up whole new pathways for delivering and formatting data.
So what my book talks about is the various ways that non-XML systems can be XML-enabled. And not just for presentation, but for messaging, data access, etc.
------------------
W. Scott Means
author, Strategic XML
smeans@strategicxml.com
[This message has been edited by W. Scott Means (edited October 17, 2001).]
W. Scott Means
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 27, 2001
Posts: 28
Originally posted by FEI NG:
author,
if your book isn't totaly for beginners can you suggest a beginner xml book.

If you're an experienced programmer, and just new to XML, my book should provide you with a good introduction to the basics of XML. With all of the examples, you can pick up the important concepts by seeing how the technology is used. But a good introductory book would be something like the XML Bible which was written by Elliotte Rusty Harold (my co-author on XML in a Nutshell.) Also, XML in a Nutshell is a good rapid introduction to XML technologies and a long-term reference book (shameless plug noted, I'm sure.)
------------------
W. Scott Means
author, Strategic XML
smeans@strategicxml.com
W. Scott Means
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 27, 2001
Posts: 28
Originally posted by ruilin yang:
Yes xhtml is different from xml. xhtml uses some xml in html. xhtml also include some other technologies, such as javaScript, etc.
My question is xhtml is not the main intention of the xml stratigy ?

I think I missed this in his original post. XHTML is simply a reformulation of HTML as a valid XML application. For example, you can no longer write something like this:

You must write:

There are also several hooks for extending the basic XHTML application, but its primary purpose is to provide a path for the web to migrate from HTML-based documents to XML-based documents in the long term. The theory being that first you support XHTML (which is an XML dialect), then the jump to XML documents is not so large.
------------------
W. Scott Means
author, Strategic XML
smeans@strategicxml.com
W. Scott Means
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 27, 2001
Posts: 28
Originally posted by Chris Chen:
I have seen the book companion page, it's rather helpful. But, is there anything about taglib?

Nope, sorry. Nothing in the book about taglib.
------------------
W. Scott Means
author, Strategic XML
smeans@strategicxml.com
ravindra ch
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 07, 2001
Posts: 6
does this book has any real time applications?i am curious about this book?
thanx
ravindra
Manjunatha HA
Greenhorn

Joined: Oct 10, 2001
Posts: 12
Hi,
Whats the role of XML, regarding personalization of any content, which is the buzz word today . Does the book handle this issue of personalization?

Thanks and Regards
Manjunatha
[This message has been edited by Manjunatha HA (edited October 17, 2001).]
Manjunatha HA
Greenhorn

Joined: Oct 10, 2001
Posts: 12
Hi Scott, i am presently working on developing a customized langauge based on XML, for maintaining say News Content. Does your book Handle regarding creation of customized languages??
Thanks and regards
Manjunatha
Doug Wang
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 05, 2001
Posts: 445
Originally posted by W. Scott Means:
Part III is the largest section of the book, and it is a series of real-world XML applications. Each chapter in Part III takes a particular problem from the requirements phase through implementation and deployment.

That's where it is different from any other XML Book available?

XML will make your life as a programmer MUCH easier.

I totally agree to that. I have benefited a lot from XML. Thank you for your great contribution to XML.

Doug Wang.

Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep
W. Scott Means
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 27, 2001
Posts: 28
Originally posted by ravindra ch:
does this book has any real time applications?i am curious about this book?
thanx
ravindra

If by real time, you mean embedded, nope -- sorry. I know that Java's becoming more important all the time in embedded applications, and it would make sense that XML would be making its way down there eventually. But since high-performance was never really part of the design goals of XML there would be some work to do to build fast, small parsers.
As an aside, my next book (due out by the end of the year or beginning of January) is called The Book of SAX, and it includes a small, Java-based SAX parser. It's < 20K compiled and is relatively fast.

------------------
W. Scott Means
author, Strategic XML
smeans@strategicxml.com
W. Scott Means
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 27, 2001
Posts: 28
Originally posted by Manjunatha HA:
Hi,
Whats the role of XML, regarding personalization of any content, which is the buzz word today . Does the book handle this issue of personalization?

Thanks and Regards
Manjunatha
[This message has been edited by Manjunatha HA (edited October 17, 2001).]

I don't go into personalization explicitly in the book. But building an XML-based infrastructure is definitely a good first step to building a personalized (and customizable) system. Without XML, building a web site that had multiple "skins" or different UIs for different users would be very time consuming. By separating content and presentation, it makes the problem managable. Not easy, but at least manageable.
------------------
W. Scott Means
author, Strategic XML
smeans@strategicxml.com
W. Scott Means
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 27, 2001
Posts: 28
Originally posted by Manjunatha HA:
Hi Scott, i am presently working on developing a customized langauge based on XML, for maintaining say News Content. Does your book Handle regarding creation of customized languages??

Nope, and I've been trying to gauge the demand for a book on XML design principles. Just as an informal poll, would people be interested in a book that talks about how to build new XML applications. The steps to go through when designing a DTD and/or Schema for a new language? How to design a good namespace architecture? Modularity and making your application suitable for inclusion in other applications?
Even though XML isn't really a programming language, there's definitely well-designed XML and poorly designed XML.
------------------
W. Scott Means
author, Strategic XML
smeans@strategicxml.com
Alvin Tan
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 25, 2001
Posts: 17
Hi Scott,
XML seems to have all the "pros".
Does your book discuss the "cons" (if there are any) of XML-enabling existing systems as well?
This might help readers in evaluating if XML is the best solution to their current systems' data problems.
Thanks
Alvin
Alvin Tan
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 25, 2001
Posts: 17
Originally posted by W. Scott Means:
Just as an informal poll, would people be interested in a book that talks about how to build new XML applications.

I'd be interested in that book, especially if it has several good vs. bad design comparisons
Fei Ng
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 1242
Originally posted by Alvin Tan:
I'd be interested in that book, especially if it has several good vs. bad design comparisons


I agree with Alivin Tan. Good VS bad design comparisons
is a +. I just feel you can understand and learn about it.
Becuase we usually compare things before we really use it.
At least you know the "why" to do it this way.
ruilin yang
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 25, 2001
Posts: 334
I saw XML was used to generate Database schema. Does your book discuss topics on XML database applications. For example, we may use it to losely couple different database systems for an application to get information from different databases at the same time. Something like database integration.
Please comments on this.
Thanks,
Ruilin
Pho Tek
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 05, 2000
Posts: 761

Regarding bad/well designed XML vocab,
there is a site that has 29 design
patterns. See http://www.xmlpatterns.com .
I have a question regarding XML Databases.
Should I be using them like replacement for RDBMS
or are they beneficial in only specific use cases?
Also I'm looking for some good book on XML Schemas.
Any suggestions? (I'd want something other than WROX
as their books are famous for bad proofreading).
Thanks
Pho
[This message has been edited by Pho Tek (edited October 17, 2001).]


Regards,

Pho
Manjunatha HA
Greenhorn

Joined: Oct 10, 2001
Posts: 12
Hi,
What does XML FEED refer to ?? How is it changing/ affecting content management ??
Thanks
Manjunatha
anne lai
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Posts: 8
Hi -

Who knows where I can download some free books about XML/XSL?
Thanks,
-Anne
ruilin yang
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 25, 2001
Posts: 334
anne,
Please check: http://xml.com/
good luck
Ruilin
[This message has been edited by ruilin yang (edited October 18, 2001).]
Fei Ng
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 1242
Author,
Any comments on integrate XML and UML to create dynamic, interactive Web applications? How useful is that?

thanks.
W. Scott Means
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 27, 2001
Posts: 28
Originally posted by ruilin yang:
I saw XML was used to generate Database schema. Does your book discuss topics on XML database applications. For example, we may use it to losely couple different database systems for an application to get information from different databases at the same time. Something like database integration.
Please comments on this.
Thanks,
Ruilin

The book does have an entire chapter that talks about different database options for dealing with XML data. It talks about the difference between mapping XML data over a relational schema vs. using a true XML database.
As for more exotic things like generating database schemas from XML, it doesn't do any of that.
------------------
W. Scott Means
author, Strategic XML
smeans@strategicxml.com
 
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subject: This week's giveaway