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Waterfall model

Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

Hi,
can some one tell me where Water fall model is used?
Pradeep


Groovy
Lasse Koskela
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Joined: Jan 23, 2002
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Everywhere, especially in places where it would be better to not use it... Seriously, the waterfall process model is very ubiquitous still today in almost every line of engineering sciences, industries and text books.


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Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

Lasse,
I want to know where it is used in software engineering world ? People prefer RUP , isn't?
Lasse Koskela
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Joined: Jan 23, 2002
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    5
I want to know where it is used in software engineering world ? People prefer RUP , isn't?
Well, even though people say things like "we're using the RUP", they're too often just doing big design up-front and stumbling in their false sense of security. There are different shades of waterfall -- sometimes you have only 1 design phase after which you can't touch the design models without losing a member, sometimes you have a second "iteration" which proves to be of little or no worth because you're already too deep in the swamp. There are differences in the prescribed process and the described process -- the company pays 000000s for RUP and the like but fail to actually follow the process. (then again, most processes are based on a series of very small waterfalls so you could basically claim that most software processes are shades of the waterfall...)
As you might have already guessed from my response, I am not going to give a straight answer... I don't think I can go more exact than "it's used everywhere".
Lasse Koskela
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Oh, this is just a guess but I think you could find processes pretty close to the original waterfall among DOD projects, life-support systems, etc...
Stan James
(instanceof Sidekick)
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Joined: Jan 29, 2003
Posts: 8791
Government work sometimes requires it. Maybe all documentation for one phase is completed and then sent out for bids from contractors who want to do the next phase.
I'd guess there are still plenty of believers that one can do requirements to completion, do design to completion, start coding. Call em pointy haired bosses if you want.


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Mark Herschberg
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Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Note that many people abuse the term waterfall. Some agrue that waterfall model = iterative model. This is true in the sense that the abstract waterfall model does not define a scope per se. The iterative model is really just multiple applications of the waterfall model.
Now in common usage people refer to the waterfall model as one iteration for the netire project. In the extreme sense, I don't think anyone ever does this.
--Mark
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

What about product development ? Do they fall into waterfall model.
Lasse Koskela
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Joined: Jan 23, 2002
Posts: 11962
    
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Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
What about product development ? Do they fall into waterfall model.
Product development is just like any other genre of software development -- some product development companies are more waterfallish than others.
On the other hand, (and I'm hypothesizing here) product development could be considered a more suitable ground for agile, feature-driven development because a) the requirements are already more feature-focused than with typical tailored business application projects, and b) the fact that the company will have to maintain and support the sh8 they produce. What do others think about this assertion? Am I completely off here?
Padam Krishna
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Joined: Jul 24, 2003
Posts: 37
Lasse you are very much correct, product development is more of 'feature driven development' then 'user expectations out of system' however one thing which both these approach solves is the requirements for the system under design. So it will very well be requirements captured for Iterative or Waterfall methodology development.
Product development can be handled using either Iterative or Waterfall methodology or may be a mix of 2
Lasse Koskela
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Product development can be handled using either Iterative or Waterfall methodology or may be a mix of 2

Yep, and whoever figures out the exact formula and manages to prove it gets filthy rich. And the available ingredients (read: buzzwords) are not limited to just iterative and waterfall...
Ilja Preuss
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Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
Originally posted by Lasse Koskela:

Yep, and whoever figures out the exact formula and manages to prove it gets filthy rich.

I don't think there can be an "exact formula". The best mix is just too dependent on factors like team culture etc.
The best teams incessantly tailor their process to their current situation, based on much experience, experiments and even gut feel. And they will "get rich" by being mindfull, not by proving some obscure formula...
[ September 16, 2003: Message edited by: Ilja Preuss ]

The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Lasse Koskela
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Ilja, who said that the formula couldn't have a million variables?
Stan James
(instanceof Sidekick)
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Posts: 8791
Yup. Just enough variables that the solution time to determine the ideal mix is always just a little longer than the product life cycle.
Zubair Mushtaq
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Joined: Sep 06, 2003
Posts: 10
well as i have read water fall model is suitable for the situations in which u are very clear about requirements and need to fully comlete a phase b4 goingt o next phase
Ilja Preuss
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Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
Originally posted by Zubair Mushtaq:
well as i have read water fall model is suitable for the situations in which u are very clear about requirements

Where did you read this?
Even if you are totally clear about the requirements, are you sure you can fully specify the design without feedback from the code? Are you sure you can implement the design correctly without feedback from the tests?
I wouldn't, so I would want to get that feedback as early as possible.
And even if I were clear about the requirements, it most often wouldn't be clear to me that todays requirements are the same requirements as those in a year.
And even if they were, most often the customer still could benefit from an earlier partial release (if only to show something on an exhibition).
In fact, I don't think you can typically be clear about the requirements. For that, your communication with those people defining the requirements had to be free from errors, free from unspoken assumptions etc. In my opinion it's nearly impossible to achieve this goal - or at least much more costly than going with an iterative approach instead.
and need to fully comlete a phase b4 goingt o next phase

Why would you ever need to do this?
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Originally posted by Ilja Preuss:
Why would you ever need to do this?

I'm just picturing all these QA guys sitting around waiting for the last line of code to be written before they start testing.
Even if there will never be any changes to the specifications because they are carved in granite and can't be changed no matter what, it still makes no sense to do a pure waterfall model. Some things are going to be finsihed before others so it makes sense to start development on some things while requirements are still being developed on others. Why sit around and wait? And even if the requirments aren't going to change it is possible that things discovered during coding may force changes on the design. What happens, for example, if the beautiful design is revealed to be causing 20 second response times? Do you just keep plowing ahead? Or do you feed that back to the designers? Wouldn't it be better to find that out early rather than later?


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