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Craig Larman

HS Thomas
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Where would one place his design book/philosophy in the grand scheme of things?
XP is really about implementation only, isn't it ?
Lasse Koskela
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Originally posted by HS Thomas:
XP is really about implementation only, isn't it ?

I would say XP is about planning, design, testing, and implementation.
By the way, how is XP related to Larman's UML/UP book?
[ January 12, 2004: Message edited by: Lasse Koskela ]

Author of Test Driven (2007) and Effective Unit Testing (2013) [Blog] [HowToAskQuestionsOnJavaRanch]
HS Thomas
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By the way, how is XP related to Larman's UML/UP book?
It's not. Why I said XP is only for implementation - I thought perhaps Larman's book was better for the bigger picture designs which could come into place with different kinds of business planning.
Larman may release a new book which could include XP I believe.
[ January 12, 2004: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]
Lasse Koskela
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Well, Larman's latest (review in the Bunkhouse by your's truly) does in fact discuss Extreme Programming, among other agile software development processes.
However, I doubt that Larman would write a "UML with XP" type of book because relatively few XPers actually use formal UML as a significant part of their process (that's my observation, your mileage may vary, of course) and Scott Ambler has already put out a quality book about Agile Modeling and XP.
[ January 12, 2004: Message edited by: Lasse Koskela ]
Lasse Koskela
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By the way, the business planning aspect has recently been the topic of an active discussion thread in the XP Yahoo group (here is the actual thread's starting point)...
HS Thomas
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Thanks Lasse.
The first link may not be what you meant.
Lasse Koskela
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Originally posted by HS Thomas:
The first link may not be what you meant.

Corrected. Thanks.
HS Thomas
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Sometimes the response to "we have the wrong Customer" is "tough beans."
In that case, we must have the courage to say, "OK, then let's stop
doing XP for this project. It won't work without the right Customer."
You need to find the right Customer for XP ?
If you don't have the right customer I suppose fall back on RUP.
[ January 12, 2004: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]
Ilja Preuss
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Originally posted by HS Thomas:
Sometimes the response to "we have the wrong Customer" is "tough beans."
In that case, we must have the courage to say, "OK, then let's stop
doing XP for this project. It won't work without the right Customer."

You need to remember that Customer (notice the capital C) is a *role*. It's the person or team which has both the competence and the power to decide what functionality money should be spent on. It could be an actual customer, possibly assisted by business analysts, testers and other folks, a product manager or whoever looks like ge can best do the job.

You need to find the right Customer for XP ?
If you don't have the right customer I suppose fall back on RUP.

You need to find the right Customer for your project, wether XP or not. Neither RUP nor any other process will save your project when you don't have an authority on the project who both knows what needs to be done and is trusted by those who spend their money on the project.


The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Lasse Koskela
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Keep on reading that thread. Problems with business objectives is a major risk and a serious project killer regardless of the process used, as pointed out by Ilja.
Process doesn't save projects, good people do.
 
 
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