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Jason Hocker
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Joined: Jul 23, 2003
Posts: 132
Where I went to college, we did not go into detail about processes. Now that I have been at my first job for two years, I understand that the way this company works has its problems. So I have two problems:
1. How can I (quickly) learn about different ways of engineering, and..
2. How can I try to have this company adopt some new ideas?
I am younger, but not the youngest. So there is an age/seniority barrier I would have to break through. Also, it seems that the architects are the ones that fail to follow a process. They continue to follow the way they did things years ago when the company was small.
Lasse Koskela
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Joined: Jan 23, 2002
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    5
1. How can I (quickly) learn about different ways of engineering, and..
Reading literature is probably the fastest way of getting to a certain level of knowledge. I'd suggest starting with Barry Boehm's and Richard Turner's Balancing Agility and Discipline, which discusses the "sweet spots" of modern software processes like RUP, XP, and Scrum.
2. How can I try to have this company adopt some new ideas?
This one's a bit tricky. Basically, you need to convince people that X is better for them compared to the current situation. Regarding your peers, this may be a piece of cake, but with the senior staff there's that thing called ego... You'll have to be careful not to give the impression that you're saying "you guys are doing it wrong".
I'd say "lead the way and others will follow", but that will only work so far. In order to get those architects in line, you need a sponsor from higher management who publicly backs up your cause.


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Ilja Preuss
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Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
Originally posted by Jay Simpson:
2. How can I try to have this company adopt some new ideas?

http://www.cs.unca.edu/~manns/intropatterns.html has some good tips.


The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Nicholas Cheung
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Joined: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 4982
Hi Lasse,

Reading literature is probably the fastest way of getting to a certain level of knowledge. I'd suggest starting with Barry Boehm's and Richard Turner's Balancing Agility and Discipline, which discusses the "sweet spots" of modern software processes like RUP, XP, and Scrum.

I have just gone to the Amazon's page, and read the table of content. I found that there are lots of *new terms* to me.
How about Larman's book? Does it in-depth enough for UP, RUP stuffs?
Also, which process is adopted most in modern software process?
Thanks.
Nick


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Lasse Koskela
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    5
How about Larman's book? Does it in-depth enough for UP, RUP stuffs?
Larman's which book?
Also, which process is adopted most in modern software process?
Probably RUP, although most RUP installations are probably far from modern in their implementation (think "we bought this RUP stuff for $1M but let's continue our waterfall stuff anyway")... Of course, I might be too pessimistic.
Ilja Preuss
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Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
Originally posted by Lasse Koskela:
Probably RUP

Well, yes - almost any project that is using an iterative approach could claim to do RUP...

"we bought this RUP stuff for $1M but let's continue our waterfall stuff anyway"

Or (probably as bad) "we bought this RUP stuff for $1M so let's make sure that we make full use of *all* of it."
Nicholas Cheung
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Joined: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 4982
Hi Lasse,

How about Larman's book? Does it in-depth enough for UP, RUP stuffs?


Larman's which book?

oh, sorry. I am refering to Larman's Applying UML and Patterns. I have read the 1st few chapters (around 9-10) while I was preparing 486 exam. I feel it uses lots of *spaces* to introduce UP and RUP, however, do you feel it is still an introduction, or it is in depth enough to cover all important aspects in UP/RUP?

Probably RUP, although most RUP installations are probably far from modern in their implementation

What do you mean by the implementation? Does this refering people usually use RUP in design processes, while they may not iteratively review the developed codes and do the add-on?
Nick
Lasse Koskela
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Joined: Jan 23, 2002
Posts: 11962
    
    5
Originally posted by Nicholas Cheung:
oh, sorry. I am refering to Larman's Applying UML and Patterns. ... I feel it uses lots of *spaces* to introduce UP and RUP, however, do you feel it is still an introduction, or it is in depth enough to cover all important aspects in UP/RUP?

I'd say Larman's "Applying UML and Patterns" is a good introduction to the Unified Process. I wouldn't call it a "RUP bible", though (the Philippe Kruchten book has the title already...).
Originally posted by Nicholas Cheung:
What do you mean by the implementation? Does this refering people usually use RUP in design processes, while they may not iteratively review the developed codes and do the add-on?

By "RUP implementation" I am referring to the process instance which the project tailored from the "10,000-page catalog" that is the RUP. I'm saying that these instances (implementations) of RUP are, more often than not, way too document-heavy and even waterfallish.
Eusebio Floriano
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Joined: Mar 07, 2004
Posts: 235
Did anyone read "The Unified Modeling Language reference Manual" By Grady Booch ?
Is it a good book for newbies ?


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Lasse Koskela
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Joined: Jan 23, 2002
Posts: 11962
    
    5
Originally posted by Vinicius Boson:
Did anyone read "The Unified Modeling Language reference Manual" By Grady Booch ?
Is it a good book for newbies ?
I've heard people recommend the "UML Distilled" book over the "Reference Manual" one. If you're looking for a book on UML, I would go with the recent 3rd edition which covers UML 2.0.
Warren Dew
blacksmith
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Joined: Mar 04, 2004
Posts: 1332
    
    2
Originally posted by Lasse Koskela:
I'm saying that these instances (implementations) of RUP are, more often than not, way too document-heavy and even waterfallish.

A bit of a tangent, but waterfalls need not be terribly document heavy. The successful waterfall projects I've been involved in - admittedly small ones - have generally involved spending perhaps 10% to 30% of the man years on documentation, an effort amply repaid over the course of the projects.
Valentin Crettaz
Gold Digger
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Joined: Aug 26, 2001
Posts: 7610
Without - admittedly small ones -, successful waterfall projects would have sounded overly paradoxical to me


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friso dejonge
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Joined: Jul 11, 2002
Posts: 162
there is a difference in perceptence here. Management tries to use RUP and bought itself into the software. For developers this does not really matter (besides the UML diagrams anyway), since for them it all ends up in waterfalls anyway. This does not help with the initial question of this thread, it just continues on the way the answers are going.
in answers to your original question...
To be fair, maybe the current book promotion, software by numbers, may help answers your question. One of the answers of the authors included a section on a student handing the book to a ceo. The ceo consequently gave all managers a copy. Maybe that is the way to go for you, take away sceptisism and introduce a good process. I would say, ask the authors if the book would be helpfull in your case and participate in the forum (maybe you are doing that already)


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Nicholas Cheung
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Joined: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 4982

I've heard people recommend the "UML Distilled" book over the "Reference Manual" one. If you're looking for a book on UML.

Agree. I read UML reference manual when I was in undergradate days. And I read UML Distilled when I was preparing IBM 486 test. Personally, I feel Reference manual is too technical for beginner. It covers nearly all aspects in UML, however, you may find it very difficult to read, and you may feel tough to understand the concepts.
UML distilled, on the other hand, summerized the concepts, and express it to us in a simplified way, thus, it is more easily to read.

I would go with the recent 3rd edition which covers UML 2.0.

I have read both versions: 2nd and 3rd. Although 3rd edition covers UML 2.0, however, if you are new to UML, I recommend you to read 2nd edition. It is becos, in 3rd edition, the book does not solely discuss about the 2.0 things, it compares UML diagrams in 1.x and 2.0. Thus, it may not be good to us for learning.
Nick
 
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