aspose file tools*
The moose likes Agile and Other Processes and the fly likes Anyone read Big Moose Saloon
  Search | Java FAQ | Recent Topics | Flagged Topics | Hot Topics | Zero Replies
Register / Login
JavaRanch » Java Forums » Engineering » Agile and Other Processes
Bookmark "Anyone read "Getting Real" by 37Signals?" Watch "Anyone read "Getting Real" by 37Signals?" New topic
Author

Anyone read "Getting Real" by 37Signals?

Pauline McNamara
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 19, 2001
Posts: 4012
    
    6
https://gettingreal.37signals.com/

I just finished it, enjoyed it a lot and found some really useful advice. It's an excellent read, even if you don't agree with it 100%.

What they say about feature creep and saying no to some clients' wishes was helpful just last week for me. And not in such a way that the client is put off and frustrated (maybe because they are involved very much in the development anyway, another thing we were doing already that they advise).
Ilja Preuss
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
Originally posted by Pauline McNamara:
[QB]https://gettingreal.37signals.com/

I just finished it, enjoyed it a lot and found some really useful advice. It's an excellent read, even if you don't agree with it 100%.


Certainly looks interesting.


What they say about feature creep and saying no to some clients' wishes was helpful just last week for me.


I don't yet know what they say about saying no, but I typically prefer to have the customers make the business decisions. That is, it's ok to say "no, we can't do all this in a month", but instead of "no, we can't put that into the schedule, too" I prefer to say "sure, we'd love to do that. We estimate that it will take a person week. What features worth a person week would you like us to defer for it?"
[ August 30, 2006: Message edited by: Ilja Preuss ]

The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Ilja Preuss
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
I just read "Meetings are toxic" (which is available online and quite short), and I don't like it at all.

Not only that I don't agree at all - it shouldn't be about minimizing meetings, but about optimizing them - I also got the feeling that the authors confused being controversial with being dismissive.

The arguments certainly are tempting - they are simple and intuitive - especially to those burnt by the problems they discuss.

But if you take a second look, you might notice that they are also shallow and in fact quite simplistic.

Anyway, that's my impression from reading the table of contents and a small chapter. I might be well missing the point of the book.

I suspect, though, that it is more our value systems that are in conflict.
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

Hmm, I agree with the UI chapter. But it was more of a "well, yea, duh" kind of agreement. Same with Scaling. And are all the chapters 2-3 pages?


GenRocket - Experts at Building Test Data
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

Originally posted by Ilja Preuss:
I just read "Meetings are toxic" (which is available online and quite short), and I don't like it at all.

Not only that I don't agree at all - it shouldn't be about minimizing meetings, but about optimizing them - I also got the feeling that the authors confused being controversial with being dismissive.

The arguments certainly are tempting - they are simple and intuitive - especially to those burnt by the problems they discuss.

But if you take a second look, you might notice that they are also shallow and in fact quite simplistic.

Anyway, that's my impression from reading the table of contents and a small chapter. I might be well missing the point of the book.

I suspect, though, that it is more our value systems that are in conflict.


I'd agree mostly. I thought it was funny/interesting how they plugged their product in that chapter too:


Instead of resorting to a meeting, try
to simplify the concept so you can discuss it quickly via email
or im or Campfire.
Pauline McNamara
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 19, 2001
Posts: 4012
    
    6
Originally posted by Gregg Bolinger:
Hmm, I agree with the UI chapter. But it was more of a "well, yea, duh" kind of agreement. Same with Scaling. And are all the chapters 2-3 pages?


Yes, all chapters are pleasantly slim.

Well, yea, duh, maybe, but I can think of a lot of projects where people don't start talking about the user's work flow until they've hashed through all the DB relationships and XML schemes. Even around here... The question of which end do to start with still gets asked in this forum, so it's not always so well, yea, duh for everyone.
Ilja Preuss
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
Originally posted by Gregg Bolinger:
Hmm, I agree with the UI chapter. But it was more of a "well, yea, duh" kind of agreement.


Well, I'm not sure I agree with that chapter. I don't see how having working code makes it hard to change the UI - unless you have horribly coupled your UI code to the business logic.

I'd think it's quite possible to first develop the business logic and later plug on a good UI. Or doing it concurrently.

Actually, I'm privately using Basecamp for some while now, and it definitely has its shortcomings in the UI...
 
Don't get me started about those stupid light bulbs.
 
subject: Anyone read "Getting Real" by 37Signals?