Mark Herschberg, author of The Career Toolkit
https://www.thecareertoolkitbook.com/
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
The consulting firm had a firm believe in 40 hour work weeks (and no doubt used that as a selling point when hiring). Towards the end of the project (a website launch), it appeared that the project would not be completed on time (despite the understanding between the large corporation and the consulting firm). The corporation pushed for longer hours and the consulting firm resisted, the relationship took some damage.
Should the consulting firm stand it's ground? Should the corporation insist on longer hours at the end to complete the project?
I was thinking here the fixed hour work week doesn't make sense. Now understand that I don't think squeezing every hour out of someone is ideal, you do get diminishing returns. However, the limit is certainly not 40 hours and longer hours for 2-3 weeks at the end of a project has been shown to work.
I am actually a fan of the concept of the fixed worked week (I don't take it literally, but like the idea of not asking people to work longer ours during certain periods). The advantage, as I see it, is as follows. Many people (engineers and business people) are terrible at estimating. This is well proven. Nevertheless, when estimates are off, engineers pay the price of longer hours. By fixing the level of effort, it "punishes" all parties involved in the estimation to do better, because their goal was not reached.
However, I don't think it holds in this situation. The premise of the circumstances describe din the previous paragraph is that it's a multi-round game, i.e. many projects over many years. A consulting engagement is a one time affair so the "punishment" has no effect. Moreover, as the corporation benefits from the project success, and suffers no ill effects from burning out the development team, it seems to me that the corporation is "right" to push for it.
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
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Originally posted by Jeanne Boyarsky:
> Should the corporation insist on longer hours at the end to
> complete the project?
Depends on what was in the contract. Also depends on whether the overrun was entirely the consulting company's fault or if anything "unexpected" happened.
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Originally posted by Ilja Preuss:
Also depends on whether we think that demanding more working hours will actually deliver more value. I seriously doubt that; and I *do* know some other things that have worked quite well for our team in the recent past.
Mark Herschberg, author of The Career Toolkit
https://www.thecareertoolkitbook.com/
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
Likewise, I think people who *outright* dismiss going from a 40 to 45 hours some particular week as inherently not productive are being equally extreme. I would argue in most cases a few extra hours for a week or two generally do increase productivity. There may be other ways, even better ways, but this way will work.
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Originally posted by Ilja Preuss:
I can tell you that for me, personally, what I can do is working longer hours at the end of a day, or work an additional day at the weekend, to get something done that can't wait. ... I'm totally sure that when developing software, working additional hours for a week or longer doesn't make me more productive.
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Originally posted by Jeanne Boyarsky:
"some particular week" - This is they key phrase. Discussing extra time for one particular week is more likely to work. The problem is that many employers put a whole bunch of those "particular weeks" together for months.
Mark Herschberg, author of The Career Toolkit
https://www.thecareertoolkitbook.com/
Originally posted by Frank Carver:
For me the issue is right at the start of the initial question: A large corporation had engaged a mid sized consulting firm well known for agile methodologies. The large corporation was eager to engage in an agile methodology.
One of the key aspects of agile development is that it is a learning process. As development proceeds, more is learned about the needs of the problem domain. If it is discovered that more (of whatever) is needed than originally envisaged, then one of quality, time, or scope must be sacrificed to compensate.
It sounds as if the corporation (implicitly) seem to prefer to sacrifice quality, whereas the consultancy would prefer to keep consistent quality but sacrifice features. I wonder if the discussion was ever phrased in these terms?
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
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