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Agile Development, does it really exist?

Hussein Baghdadi
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Joined: Nov 08, 2003
Posts: 3479

Hi.
We all like Agile development, we all like to to write unit tests, to write beautiful code.
But in real world, do we have the luxury to be agile? or agile developement is kind of "Nervana" we will not never reach?
Thank.
Vinayagam Kulandaivel
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Joined: Nov 26, 2004
Posts: 43
Hi John,

If you can, It's exists....
Please have a look at Is Design Dead? by Martin Fowler

Thanks & Regards
Vinayagam
[ October 30, 2007: Message edited by: Vinayagam Kulandaivel ]
Burk Hufnagel
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Joined: Oct 01, 2001
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John,

Agile exists in the real world - companies like ThoughtWorks do it all the time. I wonder though it if exists in the corporate world where developers work for the same customers for years, as opposed to consultants who move in for six to twelve months then move on.

Burk


SCJP, SCJD, SCEA 5 "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" Agatha Heterodyne (Girl Genius)
Stan James
(instanceof Sidekick)
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Joined: Jan 29, 2003
Posts: 8791
To know if it exists you'd have to nail down a definition and some ways to tell if what you or I do is "real agile" or only sort of. For all the millions of bits spilled on discussion groups, there is no such set of measures. In this thread I said, for a lot of people, agile ideas are definitely working better than what they did before. Some have coined a term "post agile" for getting beyond the agile books and doing what works for them regardless of what it's called. A natural part of Shu-Ha-Ri as described in one of the author posts.


A good question is never answered. It is not a bolt to be tightened into place but a seed to be planted and to bear more seed toward the hope of greening the landscape of the idea. John Ciardi
JeanLouis Marechaux
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Joined: Nov 12, 2001
Posts: 906
Originally posted by John Todd:
Hi.
We all like Agile development, we all like to to write unit tests, to write beautiful code.
But in real world, do we have the luxury to be agile? or agile developement is kind of "Nervana" we will not never reach?
Thank.


I like this statement. It is probably closer to reality that any other statement claiming Agile is the way to go, and every non-Agilist is a stupid cow.
Even if Agile practices are a Nirvana, you can pick and choose some practices (and not all) to get closer to that Nirvana. Agile adoption can be incremental too, based on your environment, and not on the what pure methodologists think.


/ JeanLouis<br /><i>"software development has been, is, and will remain fundamentally hard" (Grady Booch)</i><br /> <br />Take a look at <a href="http://www.epfwiki.net/wikis/openup/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Agile OpenUP</a> in the Eclipse community
Lasse Koskela
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Joined: Jan 23, 2002
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As a consultant helping all sizes of organizations transition to agile methods and seeing how my company's projects are by default employing Scrum nowadays, I can certainly say agile development exists. Many of those organizations might be still far away from nirvana but the already improved transparency is being considered valuable.


Author of Test Driven (2007) and Effective Unit Testing (2013) [Blog] [HowToAskQuestionsOnJavaRanch]
Ilja Preuss
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Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
Originally posted by Stan James:
To know if it exists you'd have to nail down a definition and some ways to tell if what you or I do is "real agile" or only sort of.


I'm not aware of a nailed down definition for, say, Jazz. And still, I'm quite sure that it exists, and I most often know it when I see (or rather hear) it.

I think it's quite similar with Agile Software Development. (Besides the point that I'd say the Agile Manifesto *is* kind of a "nailed down definition".)


The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Ilja Preuss
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Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
Originally posted by John Todd:

But in real world, do we have the luxury to be agile?


Who says being Agile is a luxury? As far as I can tell, the companies that consequently implement Agile approaches actually kick their competitors' asses.
Stan James
(instanceof Sidekick)
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Joined: Jan 29, 2003
Posts: 8791
I'm not aware of a nailed down definition for, say, Jazz. And still, I'm quite sure that it exists, and I most often know it when I see (or rather hear) it.

I think it's quite similar with Agile Software Development. (Besides the point that I'd say the Agile Manifesto *is* kind of a "nailed down definition".)


Yup, you're right there. For some reason I had some borderline cases in my mind. If you do all the things in the manifesto or the XP book but one are you still agile? How many would it take to be agile? Is a piece with a rock beat or no improvised solos jazz? In both realms, there is no answer. And better yet, it doesn't matter. A development method works for you or a piece of music moves you.
 
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