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any Moderator that not Certified?

Fei Ng
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 1242
just want to know.
java Certified... any out there?
Angela Poynton
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 02, 2000
Posts: 3143
I'm not ... but working on it!


Pounding at a thick stone wall won't move it, sometimes, you need to step back to see the way around.
Johannes de Jong
tumbleweed
Bartender

Joined: Jan 27, 2001
Posts: 5089
I'm not slowely but surely working towards it though

Cindy Glass
"The Hood"
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 29, 2000
Posts: 8521
All of the moderators that worked on the Passport book are certified.
Ajith, Jane, Map, Cindy and Kathy Sierra (cowgirl - who wrote most of the campfire stories).
Phil Hanna collaborated with us on the book, and he is also certified.


"JavaRanch, where the deer and the Certified play" - David O'Meara
Matthew Phillips
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 09, 2001
Posts: 2676
I should be ready by January.
Matthew Phillips

Matthew Phillips
Cindy Glass
"The Hood"
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 29, 2000
Posts: 8521
Oh yeah, not to forget that Dr Peter den Haan did the technical edit - and he is of course also certified.
Mike Meyers is reading the book to learn Java .
Marilyn de Queiroz
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 22, 2000
Posts: 9043
    
  10
Some are. Some aren't. Why do you ask?


JavaBeginnersFaq
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, and today is a gift; that's why they call it the present." Eleanor Roosevelt
Fei Ng
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 1242
i dont know...
was reading some posts.. and just thought of it.
just like to know the people here better, i think.
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
Michael Ernest


Uncontrolled vocabularies
"I try my best to make *all* my posts nice, even when I feel upset" -- Philippe Maquet
Michael Bruesch
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 23, 2001
Posts: 158
Michael Ernest, you have written a complete study guide for the Java Certification test and not actually gone through the motions of taking? Obviously you have the knowledge to pass with Mucho Flying Colors (I gather this from you very intellectual and knowledgeable posts). Do it for the sake of completeness if not for anything else! I love ya Mike, just joshing with ya, it's my duty as a fellow Mike.
------------------
Michael J Bruesch
Codito, ergo sum...
I code, therefore I am.
My Java Games, I'm quite proud


Michael J Bruesch<br /><i>I code, therefore I am.</i>
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
Hhhhhhhmmmm. There is something appealing about writing a certification guide and not being certified. (stricly speaking, we do not know if Michael is certified or not). One of the deepest Java thinkers, Jim Yingst, is not certified either, what does it change?
Michael Bruesch
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 23, 2001
Posts: 158
It changes not a thing. I just think if you look in the dictionary under irony, you find a picture of a person who's written a book about certification that is not certified. Just strikes me as humerous. But like I said before, Mike has put up some of the most intelligent posts I've seen on JavaRanch. It's like the ever-going argument of pass-by-value vs. pass-by-reference...it doesn't matter what you call it as long as everyone understand how it WORKS. It doesn't matter if you don't have a certification, as long as you know your stuff. (And as long as you have a job already, those of us still trying to get our foot in the door need this certification, we're not so fortunate).

------------------
Michael J Bruesch
Codito, ergo sum...
I code, therefore I am.
My Java Games, I'm quite proud
Kyle Brown
author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 10, 2001
Posts: 3879
Confession time. I've written two books and multiple (dozens) of articles on Java. I was primarily responsible for writing the IBM Certification test for WebSphere Application Server. I've been a subject matter expert (reviewer) for several IBM certification tests.
I've never been certified in anything. I don't care to be. I don't have the time to spend to take the tests -- who can spare 90 minutes?
Kyle
------------------
Kyle Brown,
Author of Enterprise Java (tm) Programming with IBM Websphere
See my homepage at http://members.aol.com/kgb1001001 for other WebSphere information.


Kyle Brown, Author of Persistence in the Enterprise and Enterprise Java Programming with IBM Websphere, 2nd Edition
See my homepage at http://www.kyle-brown.com/ for other WebSphere information.
Fei Ng
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 1242
hehehehee.....
just think of the like a Poll!!! only a Poll.

Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
Originally posted by Kyle Brown:
I don't have the time to spend to take the tests -- who can spare 90 minutes? Kyle


High style!
ersin eser
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 22, 2001
Posts: 1072
I know a lot of great java programmers who are not certified and a lot of horrible coders who are...
Marilyn de Queiroz
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 22, 2000
Posts: 9043
    
  10
Originally posted by ersin eser:
I know a lot of great java programmers who are not certified and a lot of horrible coders who are...

... and there are a lot of great java programmers who are certified and a lot of horrible coders who are not.

Certification has its place. However it does not prove that you know how to write optimized, readable code.
Ashik Uzzaman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 05, 2001
Posts: 2370

I entirely agree with Marilyn.....
------------------
Muhammad Ashikuzzaman (Fahim)
Sun Certified Programmer for the Java� 2 Platform
--When you learn something, learn it by heart!


Ashik Uzzaman
Senior Member of Technical Staff, Salesforce.com, San Francisco, CA, USA.
David O'Meara
Rancher

Joined: Mar 06, 2001
Posts: 13459

I'm not
(it is an aim of mine to get it completed, but in the current market I'm more interested in improving my knowledge than getting what I see as verification of what I already know)
...and as I see it, the Bartender position is a moderator and not a mentor role. The point is to assist conversation, not to dominate them.
Still not certified tho
Dave.
Paul Stevens
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 17, 2001
Posts: 2823
Getting certified for some companies is more for marketing than for the employee. They get to claim x number of certified java programmers. So they offer a bonus and pay for the exam. In such cases only a fool wouldn't get the certification.
pinki israni
Greenhorn

Joined: May 12, 2003
Posts: 2
I know one moderator who Is a certified but is not properly experienced so talks a lot more.
Hehehehehehehe....
Johannes de Jong
tumbleweed
Bartender

Joined: Jan 27, 2001
Posts: 5089
and we all thank you out of the depth of our hearts for pointing that out to us pinki.
Simon Brown
sharp shooter, and author
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 10, 2000
Posts: 1913
    
    6
I agree with Paul ... and another reason is so that companies get to become preferential partners. A good example was Sun's previous "Authorised Java Centre" initiative where a company had to have x programmers, developers and architects.
BEA are another example.
Simon
"Sun Certified"
------------------
Simon Brown
Co-author of Professional JSP 2nd Edition
[This message has been edited by Simon Brown (edited October 30, 2001).]
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
I am proudly not certified.
For me personally, I have a masters degree from MIT and 5 years of Java experience. If the company wants me to be certified before they trust my Java ability, that's not a company I want to work for.
More generally, I do not think much of Java certification. Just search on my name and "SCJP" or "certification" under Job Discussion for many a posting of mine on this topic.

--Mark
Fei Ng
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 1242
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
I am proudly not certified.
For me personally, I have a masters degree from MIT and 5 years of Java experience. If the company wants me to be certified before they trust my Java ability, that's not a company I want to work for.
More generally, I do not think much of Java certification. Just search on my name and "SCJP" or "certification" under Job Discussion for many a posting of mine on this topic.

--Mark

The time you put into Java is all thats matter.
Like you MIT degree, your experience , Java certification...
etc etc etc etc.... I personal do not think less of all
that. I am proud all people who have certifications, degree..
etc etc.. who the TIME get something done.

ersin eser
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 22, 2001
Posts: 1072
Originally posted by pinki:
I know one moderator who Is a certified but is not properly experienced so talks a lot more.
Hehehehehehehe....

Thats me

By the way pinki would you kindly read our naming policy and sign up with a proper name ? www.javaranch.com/name.jsp


[This message has been edited by ersin eser (edited October 30, 2001).]
ersin eser
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 22, 2001
Posts: 1072
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
I am proudly not certified.
For me personally, I have a masters degree from MIT and 5 years of Java experience. If the company wants me to be certified before they trust my Java ability, that's not a company I want to work for.
More generally, I do not think much of Java certification. Just search on my name and "SCJP" or "certification" under Job Discussion for many a posting of mine on this topic.

--Mark

I am certified but can NOT even get close to you Mark. Someone has to have big B.lls to ask you for your certification @ the interview.
Johannes de Jong
tumbleweed
Bartender

Joined: Jan 27, 2001
Posts: 5089
I have a masters degree from MIT and 5 years of Java experience
Gee wonder why Java certification is not important to you
Certication however can be a stepping stone for people like myself to get Java related jobs. With my background & current job, IBM mainframe programmer , getting my SCJP on my own can convince my bosses that I'm really interesed in Java and land me the Java job I want. So I will at least try and get my SCJP.
my 0.02 euro cents
pinki israni
Greenhorn

Joined: May 12, 2003
Posts: 2
Originally posted by ersin eser:
Thats me

By the way pinki would you kindly read our naming policy and sign up with a proper name ? www.javaranch.com/name.jsp

Definetly not you...... Some one else...
[This message has been edited by ersin eser (edited October 30, 2001).]

Matthew Phillips
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 09, 2001
Posts: 2676
For me the benefits of certification are two-fold. First and foremost, I want it for personal satisfaction. It is a goal of mine to become certified, so it will be very satisfying to acheive it. I also agree with JdJ. I know and understand that certification is not going to get me a job, but it might get me a consideration that would not have come without it. Once I have that foot in the door, I have to rely on my ability to close the deal with a potential employer.
Matthew Phillips
Frank Carver
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 07, 1999
Posts: 6920
The value of certification varies with time, too. Way back when I got my SCJP (1998, if I recall right), there were very few about, and it ws useful on my CV (resum�) as a talking point. More people now understand what the SCJP entails, and SCJD or SCWCD are now more useful at interview.


Read about me at frankcarver.me ~ Raspberry Alpha Omega ~ Frank's Punchbarrel Blog
Guennadiy VANIN
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 30, 2001
Posts: 898
It is not interesting to get certified when you are ready (and for what if you are already a bartender or sheriff). Just take it when you are not. I also felt that I shall be ready by January but I spoiled it all a month ago passing w/o being ready.
Then it was really disgusting. During registratiion and test instructions I was really frightened that I was incorrectly registered because the staff called it by "Microsoft's certification". Eventually after 5-6 corrections I understood. It is OK, it is Sun's certification, just nobody else has ever taken that test in this country...
[This message has been edited by G Vanin (edited November 09, 2001).]
Roseanne Zhang
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 14, 2000
Posts: 1953
Jason Hunter, who invented Servlet, and co-invented JDOM.
He was not certified, since he was not even eligible to take the test. He and his employees were making and grading the test.
He told me about 2 years ago in a JavaMUG meeting. Things might change, but my best guess is not on this one.
Roseanne

SCJD Study Group has been moved to http://www.developergroup.org/
[This message has been edited by Roseanne Zhang (edited November 09, 2001).]
 
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