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SCJD,SCJP: Did your salary increase?

HiBob Chu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 12, 2002
Posts: 86
Hi every SCJP and SCJD:
Could you show your salary ? In this form:
xxxx$ befor SCJP or SCJD
xxxx$ after SCJP or SCJD
from xxx (country or area)
Byron Estes
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 21, 2002
Posts: 313
I doubt (...I could be wrong) that many people are going to reply in the format you requested. Largely because...
(1) that is very private information
(2) there is rarely a direct correlation between a certification and a salary increase (...in my experience).
I've been in IT for almost 15 years. I've worked for a few companies (big and small) and on every platform from mainframe to wireless constrained devices.
Increases usually come in one of several ways none of which usually relate to a single certification:
1) Merit increase (sustained performance improvement potentially coupled with the addition of new skills which a certification can contribute to, but in my experience it's usually related to project performance)
2) Cost of living increase (self-explanatory)
3) Promotion within your current company. When I worked for EDS when you were promoted from Systems Engineer to Advanced Systems Engineer your pay range increased.
4) Moving to another company. In my experience, this is where the greatest increases can be found, especially after your first entry level position unless your company has been agressive about moving up your pay scale or you came in at a relatively high salary.
While this in not exactly what you requested, I hope you find it useful.
Regards,


Byron Estes<br />Sun Certified Enterprise Architect<br />Senior Consulant<br />Blackwell Consulting Services<br />Chicago, IL<br /><a href="http://www.bcsinc.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">www.bcsinc.com</a>
Barry Gaunt
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 03, 2002
Posts: 7729
One of the payoffs after getting certified is you may get your certification fee and books paid for.
Another is that you may be offered more interesting projects to work on, or even a job.
Apart from those I would not expect much more.
-Barry


Ask a Meaningful Question and HowToAskQuestionsOnJavaRanch
Getting someone to think and try something out is much more useful than just telling them the answer.
Nate Johnson
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 13, 2002
Posts: 301
I am doing the certifications because I enjoy it... it is fun and it is making me a better developer.


scwcd, scjd, scjp<br /><a href="http://natejohnson.us" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://natejohnson.us</a><br /><a href="http://rice.kuali.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://rice.kuali.org</a>
Tong Chen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 26, 2002
Posts: 1011
I got my current job because of my certificates (50%) and my experiences(50%). The certificate does not certify that you have the experience, but it does certify that your have the knowledge. When you get certified, you will get more opportunities to transfer your knowledge into experiences.


Tong Chen (Seattle USA)<br />SCJP,SCWCD,SCDJWS,IBM XML,MCP.NET,MCAD.NET,MCSD.NET
Kevin Thompson
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 04, 2001
Posts: 237
Byron hit hit the nail on the head! I agree with everything he said. I have been in IT since 1989. (I generally don't admit to anything with the word "mainframe" because some people mistakenly think it means "those stupid old people".
The reality is, the mainframe(Cobol) systems I worked on were exponentially more useful, stable, and sophisticated than the java systems I have seen. (I guess I shouldn't say that on a java forum.)
If you want more money, then you need to get a different job.
HiBob Chu: You need to change your question from "Did your salary increase?" to "Did you get a job because you had a java certification?"
In my case, the answer to that question is ABSOLUTELY YES.
In fact, at my last job they said so. They told me I was picked out from the rest of the resumes, and selected to be intervewed because of my Java certification.
I was hired because the management all had java certifications, and they liked their employees & consultants to have java certifications also.
Kevin Thompson
HiBob Chu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 12, 2002
Posts: 86
Hi :
Thanks everybody above a lot.
I have got my MS in CS since 1999. My major is
EDA and computer graphics. My first productor is a
EAD tool which like PTOTEL used to edit and input
logic circuit diagram. Later, I made some language
compiler for example EDIF, LEF/DEF(use bison) ,then I made a decoder of MPEG-I. Now I study MPEG-4. I make them all by C++.
I found my salary cann't satisfy me(nearly
1500$/month in Shanghai). I will change my job.
Theodore Casser
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 14, 2001
Posts: 1902

Originally posted by HiBob Chu:
Hi every SCJP and SCJD:
Could you show your salary ? In this form:
xxxx$ befor SCJP or SCJD
xxxx$ after SCJP or SCJD
from xxx (country or area)

On top of it, things vary greatly sometimes between jobs (aside from the usual unwillingness to give out numbers )
Now, as others have said, getting a certification really helps with finding a new job. I will admit that there was a very big leap in my salary between my former position and my new one (aside from actually getting regular paychecks, which why I left my former employment) even with a step-down in position. Part of that is due to the area where I moved - I moved from one of the cheapest COL areas to one of the more expensive ones - and part of it is finding an employer who values having a certified-and-experienced coder on his staff.
But, will certification automatically pick up your salary? Who knows. It's all (as everyone joins in the chorus) dependent on what your employer thinks its worth.


Theodore Jonathan Casser
SCJP/SCSNI/SCBCD/SCWCD/SCDJWS/SCMAD/SCEA/MCTS/MCPD... and so many more letters than you can shake a stick at!
Arthur Doyle
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 28, 2002
Posts: 10
Originally posted by HiBob Chu:
Could you show your salary ? In this form:
xxxx$ befor SCJP or SCJD
xxxx$ after SCJP or SCJD
from xxx (country or area)

You nosey bugger!
No I will NOT tell you my salary, that's between me and my bank manager. I would doubt if anyone's salary increases as a direct result of attaining any sort of certification.
Certification has two impacts...
(a) It looks good on your CV and so would help if looking for a new job, and
(b) It ensures that any gaps within your knowledge are filled. I've been doing professional JSP for 2 years now, and the study for SCWCD helped greatly in filling the gaps in my knowledge.
[ August 14, 2002: Message edited by: Arthur Doyle ]
[ August 14, 2002: Message edited by: Arthur Doyle ]
flying jordan
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 02, 2002
Posts: 22
I think this question is kind of funny. There is never a corelation between salary change and certificates. Your salary changes because you have contributed more, you have stayed in company longer, your responsibility increases, your performance improves, etc. Of course, you may performe better because you learned from your certificate. But I doubt there is any company that applies a simple salary change formula for certificates.
HiBob Chu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 12, 2002
Posts: 86
Arthur Doyle :
I am not interesting in any of your personal
information, take it easy! ;-) Your word is so
dirty. Still thank you for your rest .
Arthur Doyle
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 28, 2002
Posts: 10
Originally posted by HiBob Chu:
Arthur Doyle :
I am not interesting in any of your personal
information, take it easy! ;-) Your word is so
dirty.

Hey, I'm not the one who wants to know everyone's salary!!
flying jordan
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 02, 2002
Posts: 22
I guess one of the reasons why Chu's email got some negative response is: Chu, you should realize that some people in this discussion group may be using their real name and real email address. So it is inconvenient for them to volunterr those information. Do you understand ?
Plus, for those poeple using alias name (like me), they don't really care to give out those information because nobody knows who I am or who you are, but some of them just don't like the way you ask. This is like asking people's age, marriage status.
They don't REALLY care to tell you, but they don't like these kind of questions. It is just a culture problem. East and West have different culture.
Mark Spritzler
ranger
Sheriff

Joined: Feb 05, 2001
Posts: 17249
    
    6

Arthur, I don't think he really wanted to know peoples salary. His real question is really to see if salaries increase after certification.
You can definitely answer his questions without giving away your salary.
Besides your Bank Manager has a big mouth and already told us what your salary is. JK
Mark


Perfect World Programming, LLC - Two Laptop Bag - Tube Organizer
How to Ask Questions the Smart Way FAQ
Sumit Amar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 08, 2002
Posts: 180
Chu is quite right in his question, if he intended to know about the fluctuation of salary because of the certification. Well I don't think taking a certification gives a person a job, Certification is used to benchmark our own selves. Experience and Degree is what counts towards getting a job.
As for me I only benchmark myself by taking certification tests. Well answering to the Chu's question, I really don't think it changes the salary, I have done SCJP but got only 0.00% benefit out of it. Still I plan to take SCWCD.


SCJP, SCWCD, OCA, OCP-DBA 9i, <a href="http://brainbench.com/transcript.jsp?pid=2232802" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">BCIP</a>, MCP, MCAD, MCSD.NET, MCDBA, MCTS (SQL 05), MCITP (DBD, DBA)
HiBob Chu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 12, 2002
Posts: 86
Hi :
Thanks a lot to above. You are very kind.
I have decided to take SCJP exm 19 Aug. :-)
Thanks everybody again.
Holmes Wong
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 18, 2002
Posts: 163
Arthur:
You are the only one I have known who is so rude to other people. People in this forum need help, not blunt scolds. Look at Mark, he is always nice and professional, and knowledgable. I respect people like him, not you kind.
zknyy wolf
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 07, 2003
Posts: 21
Originally posted by HiBob Chu:
Hi every SCJP and SCJD:
Could you show your salary ? In this form:
xxxx$ befor SCJP or SCJD
xxxx$ after SCJP or SCJD
from xxx (country or area)

I'm a SCJP in china
80$ befor SCJP
180$ after SCJP
Angela Margot
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 07, 2002
Posts: 80
Certifications affect everyone differently. I have years of experience, my BS in Math, and an MS in CS.
I'm also certified - and the reason I do it is not strictly monetary, it is because it shows that I am interested in personal development. That factor has an impact in my company.
Also, there are instances in which a contract we get demands that the developers on it are certified in XYZ... and then it becomes necessary.


Angela Margot <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <br />Sr. Software Engineer<br />SCJP2 SCWCD MCSD MCP
Dan Chisholm
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 02, 2002
Posts: 1865
I think that the process of studying for a certification is a great way to learn the material. The knowledge that you gain during the certification process has greater value than the certificate.
Additionally, a certification can open some doors that might otherwise be closed.
A person that has recently passed a certification exam will probably answer questions in a job interview more easily than a person that has not studied for certification.
Although a person does not necessarily get a pay increase or promotion after getting a certification the same can be true for a person that completes a master's degree. Even so, a master's degree has great value.
I have noticed that a lot of master's programs for computer science do not cover leading edge material so one could argue that a master's degree (I mean the piece of paper) has greater value than the knowledge that is acquired. On the other hand, a certification can cover leading edge material and the knowledge gained during the process can have greater value than the actual piece of paper. In the long term, however, the master's degree seems to retain its value while the value of the certification fades as the material gets old and the technology is replaced by new technology.


Dan Chisholm<br />SCJP 1.4<br /> <br /><a href="http://www.danchisholm.net/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Try my mock exam.</a>
vivek sivakumar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 09, 2001
Posts: 187
since this discussion has come i would i like to give up my experience even..
I was working for a multinational in germany suddenly i dont know my Project manager said that i leave the company..
then after i took my java certification hoping that getting a job will be easy , its been 4 months now ..but in vain ..there are jobs which ask for specific skill sets like java programmer but even if u apply to them the response seems negative ..all i was expecting is that ATLEAST I GET A INTERVIEW CALL FOR HAVING CERTIFICATION (sure!! i dont expect to give me job cause i have cert ) but still no one responds and even if they do then its in negative way..
the reason why i say this is because i think Respecting Certification also depends on Geographic aspects..UR CERTS WILL BE RECOGNIZED ONLY IF U HAVE SOMEONE HAS POSSESSED THEM AROUND U ..otherwise i think its useless..
MANY IT HR People in GERMANY ask me "Hmm..Well what does JAVA certification mean ? many dont know even what a certification means..!! if u r among them then surely u face problems like me
in this case certification is REDUNDANT AND WILL GO UN-NOTICED!!!
[ January 30, 2003: Message edited by: vivek sivakumar ]

SCJP, SCWD <br />A farmer learns more from a bad harvest than a good one.
Jamie Shi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 01, 2002
Posts: 46
I am in Canada.
No job before SCJP2, and still no job after SCJP2 although i have IT experience.
Most of guys are really nice here.
stephen Kang
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 26, 2002
Posts: 53
I totally agree with Dan's perspective.
Surely, the certification cannot gurantee the increase of salary or getting a job if the candidate only clear the paper to show one's credential. People call these guys as "paper tiger". And I am sure HR guys hate those.
In my experience, one's initiative and challenging attitude toward learning something new impress the other people(inside and outside). That should be real purpose for getting certification.
I 've talked with one lead engineer who has 5 more certification, but doesn't know specific things about Knowledge of XML, though he holds IBM - XML. I think in the long term, those attitude will kill those guys who just have paper certification.
Though getting a MSCS degree in competetive Univ like major top 5 institute in engineering is worthwhile to wash the brain, i think getting some certifications for the specific tech is worth-while to know something you don't know yet.
Unfortunately, heavy coding using C++ during college didn't help my current job task much, such as Communication Networks, Operating Systems, Compiler Construction, Combinatorial Algorithms, Computer Graphics, Real Time Systems, and EVEN Database Systems.
i guess Thread scheduling might have helped a bit to prepare SCJP2 quicker than those hadn't a chance to take Operating Systems.
so, don't blame yourself too much.
[ February 13, 2003: Message edited by: stephen Kang ]

Stephen Kang
Amittttt Jainnnn
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 15, 2003
Posts: 8
Stephan-
I agree with you on the point that certification cant do miracles turning you, the company's leading architect in just a day but having said that - nobody can underplay the importance of being certified!!!
How can you say like that Stephan, about another certification holder in your note though you seem to have the same certification youself. Yes, I understand your point that particular person might have failed to ans some of your questions on a particular moment but that doesn't mean what you are inclined on to understand!!!
Listen, it depends on the level you want to deal with it- if you want to deal with it on a level of sattire and criticism for a person [just coz one knows that the other person is certified and more qualified than oneself is, the most common reaction I have seen is to let him down in front of others- to show that he might be more qualified but one's common sense weighs more than the recognition he has obtained from an authority in that product] OR you want to deal with it with dignity and with a mature understanding that the certified guy had it in himself to have made it and he can refresh and brush his knowledge-base when required.
The certification doesn't mean that your brain's RAM should be filled up with all the knowledge about the product for any moment BUT what it means is that you know where to look for help when getting wrong and most importantly, knowing that you are going wrong. Last Year, the industry suffered a loss of $1 Billion just on EJB projects just coz of lack of proper knowledge & inexperience. Certification definitely helps reduce that!!!
Ask yourself Stephan, I think you must not have obtained your own cert. by the time you met that guy! [dont ans me about this- i know it would be a lie!] - and he might have inspired you to obtain one for urself [you still remember he had 5!!!] - but still you think so...
I dont know what to say to you Stephan, I know you were quite positive in your note but not having a mature understanding about what you are doing[Certification] perhaps, is keeping you where you are!!! Think Clearly and in a appreciative way and you will see the benefits soon!!!
Anyways, Stephan I agree with your basic point- Cert. guys can also go wrong!
Cert. doesnt put you on top in a day!!
But U will have to agree with me on one point-
At Least Certified Guys know what they are doing even if they cant answer other's question!!!
and believe me pal, this is what is missing in IT!!!
U take care, sorry for lashing out everything on you but dont be a "scud" hitting your own targets. Believe in what you do, or do what you believe in!!!
Thanks for listening,
Amit
IBM Websphere, XML, SCJP
"EVERYTHING IS OKAY AT THE END, AND IF IT IS NOT IT IS NOT THE END!!!"
vivek sivakumar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 09, 2001
Posts: 187
Amitttt ...wow thats a befitting reply to people who just dont have any certification feathers to their hat ..but just have badges of crticism ..that was a nice reply pal.. really i too agree with u ..for example a normal java programmer will not know the intrinsic details and techs hidden inside java unless one goes thro mughals certification book (atleast some tricks) ..and another example is that a Person who did SCWD may know apis top to bottom and may be fast in atleast to know which classes or interfaces to use ..definitely this helps atleast to a certain extend ..and above all Top companies which give out projects(outsourcing) expect that the engineers who work (vendors) should possess certifications in respective technologies ..
Valentin Crettaz
Gold Digger
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2001
Posts: 7610
Cert Mag : Certification, Salaries & the IT Market


SCJP 5, SCJD, SCBCD, SCWCD, SCDJWS, IBM XML
[Blog] [Blogroll] [My Reviews] My Linked In
stephen Kang
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 26, 2002
Posts: 53
Amittttt,
I think there is some misunderstanding from my previous post.
The guy, who i have talked with was trying to pursuade me not to delve into certification to much because it's USELESS..
Here is some conversation between the guy and me.
He said he had to get some certification because of company's pressure. so, he had prepared each cert for 3 -4 weeks. His method to approach the certs was just CRAMMING (that's what he said). And he confesed to me "I don't remember anything about XML after the CERTs". Of course, I know he knows something and he might be humble person if we think differently. And i had any objection against him while we had a good conversation together. i just don't have same opinion about getting certification with him and hope that other people could think differently. That was my intention.
Yes, I should have mentioned this hidden part between the guy and me before not to make vague post.
But, besides of all that,
Amittttt, please read your post again.
Just because you can speak louder and pick one's mistake or bad english (mainly, language problem) easily doesn't mean you have 'Clear Point' + 'Mature Understading' + 'Appreciative Way' + ... + etc.
And another point is you seemed you understood my post incorrectly. "At Least Certified Guys know what they are doing even if they can't answer other's question!!!" I don't think my intention for the cert was a certification is useless rather it SHOULD BE opposite if one have a good learning attitude.
Lastly, (your) the way of trying to teach someone' attitude or perspective doesn't appeal me.
I appologize if i gave you another misunderstading to you.
Sincerely,
[ February 17, 2003: Message edited by: stephen Kang ]
Amittttt Jainnnn
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 15, 2003
Posts: 8
NOt at all Stephan!- dont take anything personal..
We Guys [including you] work very hard for a certification, put in days/sometimes months of our life into it. During those delicate preparatory days, we just have two things with us - Our Goal & Our Morale which gives us determination, hopes and what not!...and if tomorrow some stupid guy out of his ignorance, tries to de-value the whole process, underplay the vary importance of it, break it - I think he deserves to be scolded million times more than in my last mail!
No, I am not cynnical here- but I do care about the others who are still preparing for their tests!
If one can't help them in any way- at least try NOT to discourage them!
Hope you understand the sentiment here!
take care,
AJ
rosemary moore
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 22, 2009
Posts: 1
could someone give me there opinion? i have been in this industry a while but i am sick and tired of desktop and helpdesk jobs. I want to stay in the field but do something else. I want to get certified in something. Right now I am looking at MCAD or SCJP not sure which one might be more interesting or most of all land me a job. what is your suggestion
Cameron Wallace McKenzie
author and cow tipper
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Aug 26, 2006
Posts: 4968
    
    1

No increase for me. I keep asking for a raise, and they keep telling me to use Vectors instead.

-Cameron McKenzie
Raju Champaklal
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 10, 2009
Posts: 521
Cameron Wallace McKenzie wrote:No increase for me. I keep asking for a raise, and they keep telling me to use Vectors instead.

-Cameron McKenzie


scjp 1.6 91%, preparing for scmad
"Time to get MAD now.. we will get even later"....by someone unknown
Roberto Perillo
Bartender

Joined: Dec 28, 2007
Posts: 2258
    
    3

I went to a job interview last year... I said "Well, I have the SCJP, SCJD and SCWCD certifications!", and the guy said "Oh, cool! Now, tell me, does Java have multiple inheritance?"


Cheers, Bob "John Lennon" Perillo
SCJP, SCWCD, SCJD, SCBCD - Daileon: A Tool for Enabling Domain Annotations
Akmal Muqeeth
Greenhorn

Joined: May 09, 2009
Posts: 5
I went to a job interview last year... I said "Well, I have the SCJP, SCJD and SCWCD certifications!", and the guy said "Oh, cool! Now, tell me, does Java have multiple inheritance?"


hahah...so true...went through the same thing myself...although i just have SCJP ,I was expecting some kind of prefferable treatment...but it doest matter...whatever knowledge,experience and confidence I have today is because of SCJP...
Arjun Srivastava
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 23, 2010
Posts: 432

sometimes they use to organize an extra and special technical interview for certified people..you have to to put an extra effort to get through.


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subject: SCJD,SCJP: Did your salary increase?
 
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