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What is a good book for learning Web Services ?

Adri Smith
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 07, 2004
Posts: 76
Hi all,

I would like to know which book is the best to start on Web Services. I don't want especially a book that cover all the topics of the exam. I just want a recent good book to start learning web services.

Thanks in advance,
Adri
Kay Ra
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 03, 2005
Posts: 80
j2ee web services by Richard Monson-Haefel.
This fourum in many threads has refered to this book, I am reading it too curently, I think it is a good starter it is introducing topic by topic that encompass webservices, soap, wsdl,uddi ...
A search in this forum for past threads will give you further idea.

kay
Adri Smith
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 07, 2004
Posts: 76
Thanks for your answer.

I am actually wondering if the following book is not better:

- Building Web Services with Java: Making Sense of XML, Soap, WSDL and UDDI
by Glen Daniels

BTW this book is almost one year more recent.

What do you think ?

Adri
Jesus Angeles
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 26, 2005
Posts: 2057
Kay Ra, did you find the book by monson-haefel okay also for total absolute beginners on web services?
Kay Ra
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 03, 2005
Posts: 80
Jesus,
[ My opinion] web services is pretty complicated. I have a lot of experience reading different technologies, includiong EJB etc without too much prior knowledge but I must say webservices has stumped me a bit. I can't take it as casual as I have taken the others. This topic is not something I can read after dinner. In the book you mentioned I came up to the UDDI stuff and i must say I have decided to go look for something else as a starter.
But then I guess I won't be doing the certification any time real soon. Basically I shifted gears. Want to do some practical stuff recently I came across this book on hands on webservices[name something like that]. So may be I will go back and look for it. EJB, SCWCD those exams, text book reading seemed to be enough to give the exam, but web services once needs to put little etc effort.

I will be researching other books so if I find something good for starters I will post it.
Jesus Angeles
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 26, 2005
Posts: 2057
thanks Kay

i think its smart to do hands on first before exam; actually almost required; as we will do it anyway at our job

we dont want to feel that panick when we are at our job, and we got certification, but no handson

i think whatever exam it is, if it involves handson on the job, we have to do hands ideally while studying it, it greatly helps in exam too, it galvanizes the knowledge

you can hammer the job assignment even when youre totally new on it on the job

pls do share here if you find appropriate materials for us beginners...esp handson
[ August 06, 2005: Message edited by: Jesus Angeles ]
Kay Ra
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 03, 2005
Posts: 80
Here's an update on book for newbees to web services. After giving up on the j2ee web services book at the UDDI chapter. I took up
developing java web services by Ramesh Nagappan, here is what I think, this book has examples so it will be nice to get your hands [brain too] wet, actually I am going to try these tonight. First few chaps seems to be easy to understand too. This book supposedly has a nice example web service app. Once I get familiar with this my startegy would be to go back to J2ee web services book. Remember most of this forum members recommend this book, the audience cannot be wrong. But definitely the Nagappan book is not sufficient for the certification.
Also a web service experienced friend suggested to me to not worry about UDDI initially, and his experience says that not many really use it. So let this not be a block for going ahead.

kay
SHINU .R SHINU .R
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 02, 2005
Posts: 12
i DONOT KNOW WHAT STANDARD OF BOOK EXPECTED>IF U R BEGINNER MY SUGGESTION IS head first J2EE,OR hEAD FIRST ejb...ALL ARE o'RELLY SEERIES
Reza Ravasizadeh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 08, 2004
Posts: 177
I want to start a web service project next month and I know that it is not just a java related subject it is another technology like OO so I start to study Service-Oriented Architecture--Field Guide to Integrating XML & Web Services (Prentice Hall)
I find this book based on amazon search, then I will study another book to start my project, I wish SCDJWS certification guide (that not publish till today) publish on next month.

--------------
SCJP , OCP9i


Reza
Peer Reynders
Bartender

Joined: Aug 19, 2005
Posts: 2922
    
    5
Originally posted by Reza Ravasizadeh:
I start to study Service-Oriented Architecture--Field Guide to Integrating XML & Web Services (Prentice Hall)
I find this book based on amazon search, then I will study another book to start my project, I wish SCDJWS certification guide (that not publish till today) publish on next month.


Actually the same author's second book, "Service-Oriented Architecture: Concepts, Technology, and Design" may have been a better choice to learn about SOA.
Neither book goes into detail about any particular web services technology - it does outline the various areas of responsibilty of the numerous web services technology specifications and their role in an SOA.
While WS is certainly seen as an enabling technology for SOA, it is actually the identification of business processes and their proper partitioning into autonomous services that is at the core of SOA.
From that follows that you design your service interfaces (WSDL) before you even start thinking of object models.

If you are referring to the Sun Certified Developer for Java Web Services Study Guide (Exam 310-220) don't hold your breath.
See also this topic.

The depressing thing is that even Monson-Haefel says that JAX-RPC is Bad, Bad, Bad! which makes you question the value of the SCDJWS.
If you simply want to get your feet wet, pick your favorite servlet container (Tomcat, Jetty, etc.) and play with Apache Axis. Just be warned that that will not prepare you for the SCDJWS.
[ September 05, 2005: Message edited by: Peer Reynders ]
Nobuhiro Watsuki
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 07, 2004
Posts: 81
The fact that it is an over engineered solution could also increase the value of the certification. People who do understand it will be a much needed resource.
RMH also says:
"it's the current JCP standard so developers all over the world are going to have to understand it and use it."

Besides, JAX-RPC is only a part of the cert. XML, SOAP, WSDL, UDDI, security, design and architecture are too.
[ September 06, 2005: Message edited by: Nobuhiro Watsuki ]

SCJP, SCMAD, SCWCD, SCBCD, CCIE (written), IBM 287<a href="http://hollandiahaven.blogspot.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">.</a>
Peer Reynders
Bartender

Joined: Aug 19, 2005
Posts: 2922
    
    5
Originally posted by Nobuhiro Watsuki:
The fact that it is an over engineered solution could also increase the value of the certification.


Quoting RMH:
"The JAX-RPC Handler chain is an incredibly over engineered solution to a fairly simple problem, filtering or message interception."
and
"First, its (...the SAAJ API...) incredibly brittle so that changes in the SOAP specification break the API."

So its too complicated for simple problems and too brittle for complex problems. Look what Hibernate is doing to EJB - looks like some of the WS technologies are prime candidates for the same process...

Originally posted by Nobuhiro Watsuki:
People who do understand it will be a much needed resource.
RMH also says:
"it's the current JCP standard so developers all over the world are going to have to understand it and use it.".


Mainly by web service tool-vendors until the next hot thing comes along - and by the sounds of it, the sooner, the better.

Originally posted by Nobuhiro Watsuki:
Besides, JAX-RPC is only a part of the cert. XML, SOAP, WSDL, UDDI, security, design and architecture are too.


True, however UDDI isn't used much (yet) and the Basic Profile 1.0a technologies may get you going - but it seems that SOA is really demanding the second generation of WS technologies. So the SCDJWS is a start - but you can't stop there.
Jesus Angeles
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 26, 2005
Posts: 2057
The solution may be to 'adjust' the j2ee interface, not abandon it. There is only one BP so far. Usually, 2nd versions are always much better one.

The next BP(next version)-compliant j2ee may be much sturdier.
Arunprasath Rajmohan
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 27, 2006
Posts: 4
Dear Friends

Still now I cant find a book like Head First series .Thanks a lot to kathy and bates.Its really useful.I solved my problems during run time by my virtual guru kathy.Thank u dear.If u gave us a book named "head first webservices" then So many of us Indians especially cant pay money for course can enjoy.I dont whether this particular mail reaches ur attention.I pray to god for.I will be happy more if u reply this mail :roll: in this forum.I luv u dear.

Thanks from Subcontinent

Arunprasath
Chennai

Mailers u too have the same say i thinking respond me

waiting for replies
Jesus Angeles
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 26, 2005
Posts: 2057
Originally posted by Arunprasath Rajmohan:
Dear Friends

Still now I cant find a book like Head First series .Thanks a lot to kathy and bates.Its really useful.I solved my problems during run time by my virtual guru kathy.Thank u dear.If u gave us a book named "head first webservices" then So many of us Indians especially cant pay money for course can enjoy.I dont whether this particular mail reaches ur attention.I pray to god for.I will be happy more if u reply this mail :roll: in this forum.I luv u dear.

Thanks from Subcontinent

Arunprasath
Chennai

Mailers u too have the same say i thinking respond me

waiting for replies


Welcome to the club! There are probably a million others wishing the same thing. You might find it in birthday wishes and letters to santa.

Now...back to the many thick books I am crawling through....
[ February 03, 2006: Message edited by: Jesus Angeles ]
Prabath Siriwardena
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 27, 2004
Posts: 15
"Java Web Services Architecture" by James McGovern is a highly readable and easy to undertsand book on the subject. No body at all has mentioned above this book. But, this is one of the great and has an indepth coverage on the subject also covers all the topics for the exam. I only study this book and Sun's blue prints and got through the exam with a score of 98.
[ February 28, 2006: Message edited by: Prabath Siriwardena ]

<a href="http://psiriwardena.blogspot.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://psiriwardena.blogspot.com/</a><br />B.Sc(Eng),SCJP,SCWCD,SCBCD,SCDJWS,<br />MCSD,OCA,CCNA.BCS,ACS
Peer Reynders
Bartender

Joined: Aug 19, 2005
Posts: 2922
    
    5
Originally posted by Prabath Siriwardena:
"Java Web Services Architecture" by James McGovern is a highly readable and easy to undertsand book on the subject. No body at all has mentioned above this book.


Actually it has been mentioned; see:
Study Resources for SCDJWS Exam

Originally posted by Bert Bates:
I think these are some great links and book recommendations!

I'd advise candidates to avoid "Java Web Services Architecture" by McGovern, unless you can get it used for really cheap.


See also the bunkhouse review.

You have to take into account that Morgan Kaufmann titles are targeted mainly towards an academic audience.
As such, these titles would not be judged to be as accessible to the average reader as for example the "Head First" series.

Not that its likely that there will be a "Head First Web Services":

Head First UML & Patterns

Originally posted by Bert Bates:
...
SCJWSD is fairly low on the 'possible' list
...


Head First book for SCJA
Originally posted by Bert Bates:
...there are a couple of issues with the web services exam:

1 - It's not as popular as the SCJA
2 - We don't like web services very much. We helped Sun in the early planning stages for their course and with the exam objectives - it was a nightmare! Planning that normally takes a couple of weeks, took almost 6 months. Perhaps this set of technologies has started to settle down a bit, but they have always seemed to me to have a kind of amorphous, hard-to-pin-down sort of feeling about them.
3 - It would have to be a bigger than usual HF book - and they're already big - so it's a much bigger risk in that way too.
Anyway, we are always waiting and watching for th right time...

[ February 28, 2006: Message edited by: Peer Reynders ]
Sree Jag
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 14, 2003
Posts: 77
Prabath,
Isn't that book a bit old. The last published date was around 2003 i guess. Hasn't the specification changed a lot? (i really don't know, so am curious)


Sree Jag<br />SCJP 1.4
Peer Reynders
Bartender

Joined: Aug 19, 2005
Posts: 2922
    
    5
Originally posted by Seshagiri Varanasi:
The last published date was around 2003 i guess. Hasn't the specification changed a lot?


In the context of the SCDJWS nothing has changed as its objectives are fixed with the specifications at the time of the SCDJWS release (it went beta in April 2004). For example, the SCDJWS tests on JAX-RPC 1.1, SOAP 1.1, WSDL 1.1, JAXP 1.2, BP 1.0a, etc. - some of these have already been updated, others are still in progress. However these changes are relatively slow compared to the proliferation of 2nd generation WS-* specifications, which are largely based on the 1st generation technologies. The SCDJWS covers the 1st generation technologies and it already has a rather large scope (compared to other Sun certifications). If it attempted to also cover the 2nd generation advances it would be absolutely monstrous.

These are the two core books recommended for SCDJWS preparation - look at their dates:
October 17, 2003 J2EE Web Services
June 9, 2004Designing Web Services with the J2EE(TM) 1.4 Platform : JAX-RPC, SOAP, and XML Technologies

compare April 25, 2003 for Java Web Services Architecture which isn�t that much earlier.

Meanwhile a dedicated SCDJWS study-guide was announced to be released back at the end of March 2005 and currently has a projected date of the beginning of October 2006.
Prabath Siriwardena
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 27, 2004
Posts: 15
HI Seshagiri;

I agree with Peer. This book("Java Web Services Architecure") matches the exam objectives.
Peer Reynders
Bartender

Joined: Aug 19, 2005
Posts: 2922
    
    5
Originally posted by Prabath Siriwardena:
I agree with Peer. This book("Java Web Services Architecure") matches the exam objectives.


I've never recommended Java Web Services Architecture as SCDJWS preparation material - I've never laid eyes on the book. In fact in my previous posts in this thread I pointed out criticism against "Java Web Services Architecture" from other parties. I simply pointed out that is was published in the same time frame as other recommended preparation materials.

Information about the book is available on the publishers web site as is a sample chapter. So people can make up their own minds.

I personally used
J2EE Web Services
Designing Web Services with the J2EE(TM) 1.4 Platform : JAX-RPC, SOAP, and XML Technologies
Core Security Patterns : Best Practices and Strategies for J2EE(TM), Web Services, and Identity Management (Chapter 6, 7; though Chapter 8. Security of Mikalai Zaikin's SCDJWS Study Guide does the job).
 
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