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SCEA without other Java Certifications

C.P Sanchalanam
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 05, 2006
Posts: 15
Time to time I have been getting myself on and off the path to obtain certifications in Java to partly add sun logos to my resume and partly to acquire some knowledge or to test my knowledge in the respective areas. This year I made up my mind to clear atleast one Java Certification (mostly SCEA). From the beginning my aim is on the SCEA certification as my interest is mostly inclined towards the application design/architecture then towards development.
Reading through some of the post in this forum I noticed people suggested to take SCWCD, SCBCD prior to appearing for SCEA. I have completed my SCJP almost 7-8 year back and now i have no interest in taking the the following tests - SCWCD, SCBCD. I believe I have good knowledge and experience in J2EE technologies. However, my knowledge and experience in EJBs is very limited. When we work on the project for SCEA, is it mandatory to use EJBs or can I use other most efficient and flexible opensource APIs and exclude EJBs completely form my project? will this have any negative effect on the overall result?? do you still suggest to take SCWCD and SCBCD prior to SCEA? pelase advice.

Also, If anybody has a good online resource on UML please post it to me. I am planning to start my preparation from UML.

Thanks very much for your help,
Sanchi
clark xu
Greenhorn

Joined: Dec 25, 2007
Posts: 2
As far as i know,many people passed scea without taking scbcd.
Paul Michael
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 02, 2001
Posts: 697
Hi Sanchi,

I think we have a similar profile. I also cleared my SCJP a couple of years back (2001). Last year, I passed SCEA part I (old) and SCEA 5 Beta Part I. I don't think SCWCD and SCBCD are requirements for passing SCEA but a good background on both technologies will certainly be of help. I think I did well on the EJB topics (100% on EJB and 91% overall) for Part-I (old) given that (like you) I didn't have much EJB background.

I certainly did some reading about it (especially lifecycle parts) while preparing for SCEA Part-I (old). I used some chapters from SCBCD study guide and HFEJB as resources.

While doing the assignment (which I still haven't completed yet) I found out that I still can use some more EJB knowledge which is why I'm planning to take SCBCD 5 this January prior to completing my SCEA assigmnent and essay. To be on the safe side, I'm thinking of submitting a purely JEE based solution.

By the way, I'm using UML Distilled 3rd ed and UML 2.0 in a Nutshell as reference.


SCJP 1.2 (89%), SCWCD 1.3 (94%), IBM 486 (90%), SCJA Beta (96%), SCEA (91% / 77%), SCEA 5 P1 (77%), SCBCD 5 (85%)
Hong Anderson
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 05, 2005
Posts: 1936
Originally posted by Sanchi Sanchi:

When we work on the project for SCEA, is it mandatory to use EJBs or can I use other most efficient and flexible opensource APIs and exclude EJBs completely form my project? will this have any negative effect on the overall result?? do you still suggest to take SCWCD and SCBCD prior to SCEA? pelase advice.

The assignment don't state that we must use EJB.

But if requirements are appropriate to use EJB, it is not easy to not use it, do you agree?

For example, how we implement distributed system without EJB?

If you have much experience about web components (JSPs/Servlets), I think SCWCD is not need. But if you know little about EJB, I recommend you to study EJB 3. Take or not take SCBCD is up to you.

HTH


SCJA 1.0, SCJP 1.4, SCWCD 1.4, SCBCD 1.3, SCJP 5.0, SCEA 5, SCBCD 5; OCUP - Fundamental, Intermediate and Advanced; IBM Certified Solution Designer - OOAD, vUML 2; SpringSource Certified Spring Professional
Mikalai Zaikin
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 04, 2002
Posts: 3211
    
    6
Hello !

In short, my 2 cents will be:

You don't have to take these certifications, but you should have strong knowledge of wide range of JEE techonologies (including EJB).

For Part 1 you tested to:
a) understand technology (so, knowledge is necessary, not at very deep level).
b) demonstrate your ability to choose *right* JEE techology to fix some problem from given scenario.

For Part 2,3: apply and *justify* Java technology for assignment project. If you don't know EJB for example, and not used it in assignment, you have to *justify* why you avoided EJB. As was said above - how can you handle distributed transactions ? Write custom framework ? Or if you avoided JPA (EJB 3.0), how you handle persistence ? Or apply messaging to the solution (MDB) ?

[DISCLAIMER] I don't want to say EJB is a must, probably you can pass SCEA without EJB knowledge.

regards,
MZ


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Phil Haigh
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 19, 2006
Posts: 26
IMHO,

You need to learn enough about EJB to pass the part 1 exam.

In the part 2 assignment you are designing a J2EE solution and you should choose appropriate technologies and be able to justify them. It is ulikely that you'll get a problem that is not appropriate to EJB given its central position in J2EE.

Remember, you don't have to be able to program EJB, just know enough about what they are for and how they work to pass part 1 and you'll know when it is appropriate to use them when you are doing part 2. I've not programmed any EJBs for several years and only touched EJB briefly in the early days but this did not hinder my completion of the SCEA.


Phil
SCJP, SCWCD, SCEA
Mellon Sun
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 20, 2003
Posts: 126
It seems that you can pass them all, so why not?
I'd like to take all the certification exam of Java, even the SCMAD, which I think I would never use it.
[ January 08, 2008: Message edited by: Mellon Sun ]

SCJP,SCWCD1.3,SCWCD1.4,SCJD,SCBCD5,SCEA5
Juan Pablo Crossley
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Posts: 128
as other said IMHO, the main idea in here is get the certification? I don't think that all of us take that certification just to be proud of it, we take it because we really believe we have the knowledge to do it... why? because we played a lot with all the J2EE technology and what more from it,

My advice is take the long path and the gratification will be bigger, you can buy some study guides, a mock exams and pass whatever certification you want, but I think that's not the idea, the developer will see you a little bit sad if you try to explain your diagram and you really don't understand what you put in there.

So, in summary, the other certifications are required NO, (because of that Sun does not have it as requisites), but does it have sense to be great Architect and dont even pass the SCJP or SCBCD?

let me put you an example: you are hired as Architect and your responsabilities included the detailed design of every application, and then you put in your diagram something ... like an object parameter StringBuffer and you modified internally do add some stuff, you put it in your diagram and you're happy with it, then you showed the diagram to the developers and they said: "hey boss, you're wrong, in the remote beans the parameters are passed as copy of the original, so adding the stringbuffer will not reflect what you want, you need to change the whole diagram because of that...". it's not enough to learn the lifecycle, transactions and security if you make errors like this one,

The architect must be able to create a general and detailed diagram (I think), I know that as an architect you can design a general application without any knowledge of the technology you are working on, but the detailed diagram needs more than structural decisions.

what do you think?
[ January 09, 2008: Message edited by: Juan Pablo Crossley ]

SCJP, SCBCD, SCEA 5, MCP

How to pass SCEA 5 | 2, 3, N-tier which one should I pick? | Analysis of persistence layer from SCEA 5 perspective | Swing... why not?
Paul Michael
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 02, 2001
Posts: 697
Originally posted by Mellon Sun:
It seems that you can pass them all, so why not?
I'd like to take all the certification exam of Java, even the SCMAD, which I think I would never use it.

[ January 08, 2008: Message edited by: Mellon Sun ]


Given enough time and resources, I'm all for this too!
Ådne Brunborg
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 05, 2005
Posts: 208
Originally posted by Mellon Sun:
It seems that you can pass them all, so why not?
I'd like to take all the certification exam of Java, even the SCMAD, which I think I would never use it.
[ January 08, 2008: Message edited by: Mellon Sun ]


"Why not?"

Well, if your development certification does not follow your work experience at all, they are of very limited value. I would rather hire an experienced developer without any Developer certification, than an inexperienced but certified one. (Of course, I would prefer an experienced and certified one!)

If you're not a developer, why be a certified developer?


Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
Mellon Sun
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 20, 2003
Posts: 126
I treat the certification as an approach to master some knowledge.
The more certification I got, the more possibility I may find a solution.
I wanna Know it before I use it.

I hired four programmer in the year 2005, two of them are certified only(SCJP & SCWCD) with no experience, the other two with 2 and 3 years experience respectively. As I expected, these two guys are developing faster then the other two experienced. 10 months later, they are almost the same when they solve a same mission. 18 months later, the certified two are more better.

Maybe this story is a little bit special, but I still prefer to hire a certified one.
[ January 14, 2008: Message edited by: Mellon Sun ]
 
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