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CX-310-053 -- Felt the need to Upgrade ???

k.p thottam
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 29, 2001
Posts: 77
Hi All,

As a practicing architect , I deal with different java based server technologies that have become mainstream outside of the normal sun process. Example spring , Struts , velocity etc.

This should be the case for most of us in the real world.

So my question is : how many of you see the value of upgrading -

a) because it makes a difference in financial compensation ?

or

b) Because the technologies covered make sense from a personal growth?

---
My take is -

for item a - really no one cares as long as you are SCEA , they aren't very concern it is the older version

for item b -- well of all the newer technologies JSF is the only one we are adopting widely is my take. EJB 3 isn't taking off , and as for the ORM the open source dominates the field. So again not much value...


Your opinions guys .........???


K.P.Thottam (K.P.T)<br /> <br />Sun Certified Enterprise Architect,TOGAF 8 Certified,Certified Information System security Professional (CISSP),SCJDWS,SCWCD,SCJP,MCP
Theodore Casser
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 14, 2001
Posts: 1902

I think the value of upgrading really depends on more than that - if you're working consistently as an architect, you probably have the work experience to show that you know what you're doing and don't need to upgrade so urgently.

I think I disagree with you on the areas that are 'taking off' - I have yet to have a request from a client for an app using JSF, but have been implementing quite a bit using EJB3. To me, the greatest arguments for upgrading are showing familiarity with the latest Java EE standard and keeping the certification 'fresh', but that is just my thought on it from where I'm sitting.


Theodore Jonathan Casser
SCJP/SCSNI/SCBCD/SCWCD/SCDJWS/SCMAD/SCEA/MCTS/MCPD... and so many more letters than you can shake a stick at!
Jeff Walker
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 25, 2004
Posts: 116
Originally posted by k .p.thottam:
Hi All,

As a practicing architect , I deal with different java based server technologies that have become mainstream outside of the normal sun process. Example spring , Struts , velocity etc.

This should be the case for most of us in the real world.

So my question is : how many of you see the value of upgrading -

a) because it makes a difference in financial compensation ?

or

b) Because the technologies covered make sense from a personal growth?

---
My take is -

for item a - really no one cares as long as you are SCEA , they aren't very concern it is the older version

for item b -- well of all the newer technologies JSF is the only one we are adopting widely is my take. EJB 3 isn't taking off , and as for the ORM the open source dominates the field. So again not much value...


Your opinions guys .........???


I'd like to chime in with my opinion, for what it's worth.
I too, have a string of certs after my name (JSCP, SCBCD, SCWCD, JCDJWS). I am currently studying for the SCEA5 and I will stop doing more certs after this one. (I'm really doing it because I can't get enough architectural experience at work). I think they are just a way to make money by Sun. think about it, if you get on the cert merry-go-round, you need to keep them all up to date. Every year.

I think the older SCEA is fine and wouldn't recommend wasting the time upgrading. The reality is, certs are for people to show knowledge and skill that they couldn't get adequately on the job.

Instead, I would recommend doing a masters in Comp Sc. and then the PMP to be a well-rounded architect and general project consultant. It really depends on where you see yourself in 5 years. If you see yourself leaving technology for management, then start an MBA partime now. If you see yourself as a senior enterprise architect, then start moving up the ladder. Certs only reinforce the level your at.

Finally, I'd like to say that I work as a contractor in J2EE, and that I have been asked for Sun certs on a few contract interviews and it's nice to be able to tell them I have some certifications from Sun. I doubt I got a better rate because of the certs, but I suspect (but don't really know) that I secured a contract because of the certs. I'm assuming the other candidates didn't have the certs, of course. In this case, the certs probably did help me. But honestly, I know other contractors who have no certs at all and who do much better than I. They told me deep experience and exposure to the technologies you need is far better than a cert that will be out of date in 6 months. I believe them.
-jeff
Cameron Wallace McKenzie
author and cow tipper
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Aug 26, 2006
Posts: 4968
    
    1

I think they are just a way to make money by Sun. think about it, if you get on the cert merry-go-round, you need to keep them all up to date. Every year.


To be honest, I bet this might even be a loss-leader for Sun. The benefit to them is that they can brag "1,000,000 certified professionals!", but in the end, the $150 we spend to write the exam? How much does the testing center take? How much does it cost for them to do free betas and maintain and manage the database of professionals?

I don't think Sun is getting rich of the SCJA cert process.

-Cameron McKenzie
Jimmy Clark
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 16, 2008
Posts: 2187
The benefit to them is that they can brag "1,000,000 certified professionals!", but in the end, the $150 we spend to write the exam? How much does the testing center take?


"1,000,000 certified professionals"

There is a financial value related to the marketing value of this statement.


I don't think Sun is getting rich of the SCJA cert process.


It isn't one certification process. It is many certification processes, year after year after year. This may not make Sun rich, but is a consistent revenue stream.
k.p thottam
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 29, 2001
Posts: 77
Originally posted by James Clark:


It isn't one certification process. It is many certification processes, year after year after year. This may not make Sun rich, but is a consistent revenue stream.


There is the mind share aspect that also translates into revenue. Don't forget if you are continuously getting certified java / j2ee / sun by extension is always on your mind
Sri Kor
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 03, 2001
Posts: 35
I agree with Cameron. I don't think it is a big revenue for Sun. I am sure lot of people, if not all, got the benefit of these certifications one way or the other.

Every proramming language requires certifications. If a programming language does not offer a certification, then there is something seriously wrong with it. Look at Microsoft, the master of marketing.

Now that said, the certification that any body wants to take should be dependent on that person's interests and work opportunities. If you take a certification out of passion for that programming language, chances are that you don't get much benefit out of it.


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