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beta results?

Kalpesh Soni
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 02, 2001
Posts: 312
what happened to them?


Test 094, IBM WID 6.0 cert
SCJP 1.2
SCBCD 1.3 Beta
SCWCD 1.4 Beta
SCMAD Beta
SCDJWS Beta

KS
Theodore Casser
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 14, 2001
Posts: 1902

Patience. The beta just ended earlier this month, and it takes 6-8 weeks for them to get the results done with.
Sides, some of us feel like we're certain we failed, and would rather put it off for a while.


Theodore Jonathan Casser
SCJP/SCSNI/SCBCD/SCWCD/SCDJWS/SCMAD/SCEA/MCTS/MCPD... and so many more letters than you can shake a stick at!
Nicholas Cheung
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 4982
Hi Theodore,
Cheer up!!! We definitely will pass SCMAD!!!
Nick


SCJP 1.2, OCP 9i DBA, SCWCD 1.3, SCJP 1.4 (SAI), SCJD 1.4, SCWCD 1.4 (Beta), ICED (IBM 287, IBM 484, IBM 486), SCMAD 1.0 (Beta), SCBCD 1.3, ICSD (IBM 288), ICDBA (IBM 700, IBM 701), SCDJWS, ICSD (IBM 348), OCP 10g DBA (Beta), SCJP 5.0 (Beta), SCJA 1.0 (Beta), MCP(70-270), SCBCD 5.0 (Beta), SCJP 6.0, SCEA for JEE5 (in progress)
Nicholas Cheung
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 4982
Hi Theodore,
Cheer up!!! We definitely will pass SCMAD!!!
Nick
Mehdi Chaouachi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 02, 2003
Posts: 87
You are so optimistic Nicholas, I feel I am gonna fail this one.


Mehdi Chaouachi<p>Sun Certified Java Programer (1.4)<br />Sun Certified Web Component Developer (1.4).<br />Sun Certified Mobile Application Developer.
sandeep kulkarni
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 25, 2004
Posts: 36
hope we will through the exam.friends are already calling me as SUN CERTIFIED MAD
Kathy Sierra
Cowgirl and Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 10, 2002
Posts: 1572
Hang in there
I know how hard that is. We are in the process of analyzing the beta results right now, and that takes some time because in addition to statistics, we read each and every comment that you wrote in during your exam, and there were many hundreds of comments!!
In fact, I want to thank you beta testers for giving so many good and helpful comments--this beta received more useful comments from testers than any other beta I've ever seen. This is *really* important to us! The psychometricians are looking at the statistics now and its a very elaborate process to determine whether any questions should be dropped from the exam, and the final passing percentage (and your own personal score) can't be determined until that's complete.
So if you missed a question, but that question is dropped from the exam, then that *miss* won't count against your score. So until we know all that, we can't give out the results. But it will be soon. I believe you *might* know the results within 4 weeks, but no guarantee!
Just keep the faith. I *can* say that this exam turned out to be *very* difficult. So if you feel as though, "Wow, that exam was HARD for me" that does not necessarily mean that you failed. This exam will probably not have one of the highest passing percentages. For example, an *easy* exam would have a HIGH pass percentage -- you might have to get 85% to PASS an easy certification exam. THIS exam is not one of those ) I have no idea what the pass percentage will be, but I'm pretty sure it will be below 80%, if that helps you feel a little better.
cheers,
Kathy
Nicholas Cheung
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 4982
Hi Kathy,
Many thanks for your reply.
I feel the exam is not that easy though, it seems more difficult than SCWCD beta because maybe only a few of us have solid J2ME experiences.
Anyway, I am looking forward to the result, no matter it is a pass or fail.
Nick
Forrest Xu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 16, 2002
Posts: 92
Hi Kathy,
Normally the pass percentage will be around 60(62, like SCWCD 1.4 beta test. "I'm pretty sure it will be below 80%" does not make sence. It could be 70~79.
Does this mean the pass score will be higher than SCWCD 1.4 beta test?
v giri
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 128
I *can* say that this exam turned out to be *very* difficult.

Sun declares me MAD or I interpret they certify my sanity.
It is a win-win situation.
Best of luck to everyone


-giri
Kathy Sierra
Cowgirl and Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 10, 2002
Posts: 1572
Howdy -- I was giving myself a LOT of room for error on the exam. In the old days of SCJP, the pass percentage was high -- something like 78%. If I really had to guess, I'd believe that this exam was going to be in the low-to-mid-60's. But it could be much higher or lower... I'm just guessing based on the initial results. Now, the SCJP is now 52%, so it is possible the Mobile exam could go that low, but I don't think it will.
So, yes the exam COULD come out with a higher pass percentage than the new SCWCD. I don't know, though. Bert and I both feel that the SCWCD exam *content* is more difficult than the SCMAD. BUT... the SCWCD folks were more prepared. So, we think there's more difficult stuff on SCWCD, but people scored higher. What that means is, perhaps both exams will be close in passing percentage. Again, I would guess that SCMAD will be somewhere in the 60's like SCWCD, as opposed to 70's like the original SCJP exams or 50's like the current SCJP.
But we'll have to wait and see... I know that *I* am dying to know the final outcome!
cheers,
Kathy
Eduardo Rodrigues
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 199
Originally posted by Kathy Sierra:
Howdy -- I was giving myself a LOT of room for error on the exam. In the old days of SCJP, the pass percentage was high -- something like 78%. If I really had to guess, I'd believe that this exam was going to be in the low-to-mid-60's. But it could be much higher or lower... I'm just guessing based on the initial results. Now, the SCJP is now 52%, so it is possible the Mobile exam could go that low, but I don't think it will.
So, yes the exam COULD come out with a higher pass percentage than the new SCWCD. I don't know, though. Bert and I both feel that the SCWCD exam *content* is more difficult than the SCMAD. BUT... the SCWCD folks were more prepared. So, we think there's more difficult stuff on SCWCD, but people scored higher. What that means is, perhaps both exams will be close in passing percentage. Again, I would guess that SCMAD will be somewhere in the 60's like SCWCD, as opposed to 70's like the original SCJP exams or 50's like the current SCJP.
But we'll have to wait and see... I know that *I* am dying to know the final outcome!
cheers,
Kathy

Hi Kathy
I want to do a comment about the pass percentage...
For example, the SCJP , here in Brazil, means NOTHING! It's too easy to anyone to pass, everybody here is a SCJP... I think Sun MUST review your scores, because in the way that the things are, the Java Certification don't add any value for a candidate... Maybe every test could be a mark and practice test (like SCEA)...
Thank you!!!


Eduardo Rodrigues<br />SCJP 1.4/5.0 SCWCD 1.3/1.4, SCBCD 1.3, SCMAD, SCEA<br />IBM 484 & 486<br />Belo Horizonte<br />Minas Gerais<br />Brasil
Juarez Alvares Barbosa Junior
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 18, 2002
Posts: 80
Hi Eduardo (my friend) and Kathy !
I do agree with you when you say that SCPJ2 is "common" here in Brazil, we have the two largest JUGs in the world and our community is active indeed.
But I don�t think SCPJ2 is so easy tough, in fact, I can�t say anything about the newer version of the exam (1.4) because when I�ve taken the exam it was the older version. The old one was hard, I can assure you. We had 13 sections to follow (including AWT, Components and other things) and the pass percentage was 61 %.
But I think you are right again when you are taking into consideration the current (1.4) exam pass percentage, I think 52% is too low and Sun should analyze this issue. I do undertand that this percentage is due to several factors, as Kathy cited, but I don�t think we should devaluate the exam this way...
That�s my point of view, tough.
See you in the MGJUG forum.
Best,
Juarez
SCPJ2/SCWCD1.3/SCWCD1.4/SCBCD
Eduardo Rodrigues
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 199
Hello Juarez!
Think in the old exam without AWT and IO. Add some little tricks trying to confuse you... That's it... I studied very fast, my pass percentage wasn't the best, but I can pass without problems (and without study very much)...
Ok, I understand that IO and AWT (or swing) are on the SCJD, but that subjects are, IMHO , the most difficult part of the old SCJP were AWT and IO... I still think that Sun must review their concepts...

OFF: Did you received the CD???
Best,
[ March 27, 2004: Message edited by: Eduardo Rodrigues ]
Nicholas Cheung
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 4982
I just wanna give one comment on the passing rate:
It seems that you feel why SCJP is so popular in Brazil is solely becos the low passing rate. However, I dont think this is the case. Of course, the lower the passing rate, the higher number of SCJP holders.
BUT, since SCJP is the *entry point* of other SUN Java certificate (except SCEA), you can forsee that, one who wanna take, say SCWCD or SCBCD or even SCJWSD beta, *MUST* pass SCJP, and thus, no matter how high or how low the passing rate is, more and more people will take SCJP anyway. Otherwise, they can take other exams.
Not only SUN, but also IBM and Oracle. As you know, ICED 4.0/5.0 and Oracle Java Developer require SCJP. In the past, IBM and Oracle have their own SCJP exam, however, they finally delegate this exam back to SUN.
Thus, since there are so many exams are related to SCJP, if you talk about the value added of SCJP, I think it means nothing nowaday while compare to others, who hold SUN Java certificates in addition to SCJP. Those values are added to the further certifications.
Maybe, just a guess, since SUN wanna attract more people to take her certificates, she decided to use a lower passing mark so that more and more people get SCJP and continue to take other SUN's exam.
NOTE:
This is my own opinion, and this does not necessarily mean SUN is thinking in this way.
Nick
[ March 27, 2004: Message edited by: Nicholas Cheung ]
Bert Bates
author
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 8815
    
    5
Nicholas -
I've never heard anyone at Sun mention that theory. From everything I've seen there, the passing grade is based SOLELY on the results of the beta. My belief is that it is a harder test than the others, and that's why the passing percentage is lower. (But maybe it's actually easier, and a bunch of beginners took the beta .)
Everything I've ever seen or heard at Sun is that they want these tests to be hard, so that getting certified has some meaning!
-Bert


Spot false dilemmas now, ask me how!
(If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much room.)
Nicholas Cheung
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 4982
Hi Bert,
As J2SE 1.5 beta is out, when will SCJP 1.5 beta release?
I am very looking forward to it.
Nick
Nart
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 28, 2002
Posts: 95
Considering that with each new SCJP edition, the score goes down by 10%, i guess the passing score of SCJP 1.5 is going to be 41%
Seriously though, the passing score of SCJP 1.4 at 51% is really pathetic! :roll: Thats really too low! Even SCJP 1.2 was easy at 61%! And SCJP 1.2 is HARDER than 1.4! (imho)
In my opinion the passing score of SCJP should be back in the 70's range.
Nart
Ceppad Reso
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 14, 2002
Posts: 19
I thought SCJP is too easy to not pass at beginning. But now my opinion changed. From about 20+ people (all with degree of BS or MS in CS) I know, the first time passing rate is about 85%. In other words, 15% of them failed the first attempt.
Sunar Susanto
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 23, 2004
Posts: 8
Why would the passing score be determined based on the statistic of beta exam results? I am disappointed with the low passing score for the SCJP 1.4 .


Sunar Susanto<p>SCJP 1.4<br />OCA DBA 9i<br />CCNA (640-801)<br />SCMAD<br />---------------
Wilder C Rodrigues
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 03, 2003
Posts: 107
Hi all and people from Brazil!
The score to pass in SCPJ is low, but if you want to know your capacity of programming, try to get the SCDJ certification. It's true that many people in Brazil have SCPJ, but so few has SCDJ. And why? because people either don't like or don't know Java.
If you mean to be a Java Programmer, you need SCDJ certification. The pass score? 80%
Bests,
Wilder C. Rodrigues
SCPJ 1.4, SCDJ 1.4, SCWCD 1.3


SCEA Part I, SCAJ, SCPJ, SCDJ, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCMAD<br /> <br />"The significant problems we face can not be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." - Albert Einstein
Bert Bates
author
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 8815
    
    5
As Kathy mentioned, one of the problems with the SCJP is that it's on its 812th revision.
"How many ways can you ask whether an object still has a reference?"
So, the exam creators had to try to get trickier and trickier. With 1.5 Sun is hoping to take a brand new approach to the exam, which should make it better in a whole bunch of ways.
As far as the 51% goes, Sun won't release their statistics, but we do know for sure that a whole lot of people who took the beta scored less than 51%, and I'd say the the 'whole lot' was more than 15%.
 
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