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SCBCD Time to Evaluate (To Evelyn and Ranchers)

Syed AliRaza Zaidi
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 12, 2002
Posts: 169
Hi Guys,
I was unable to provide very useful comments in SCBCD Test so I decided to write few words as my comments up here to provide some useful suggestion for Beta exam.

Few things to be noted about Beta is that
1) It consist of questions which are not potraited as they should be potraited its better to give scenario based questions rather than giving code base questions
2) Drag & Drops are good but there should be more on EJB QL
3) Add D&D for Some EJB Design Patterns
4) Roles are the most important part of the paper but I donot think a developer need to know about it very much
5) Some D&D's related to DTD's , like drag and drop the parts of DTD tags
6) Security Questions should be made more proper with Role based Security and Code Base Security with a proper distinction
7) Local API for Bean should be considered for proper scenario based questions
8) User can also be asked for Input from Text Field about tags to constitute DTD in particular Scenario
9) Certification should test developement Experience rather than trying to judge ejb Knowledge on temproray basis i.e. some things which are remembered for few days after reading Specification
10) EJB Developer should be ask for the Solution Development in particular Scenario's and the best Solutions to judge Skills
11) Exceptions questions are not so good they can be much better
12) Life Cycle questions are very good indeed
13) Message Driven Beans are not discussed as they should be their should be some more things there
14) Transaction questions can be asked in diagramatic illustration and D&D's
15) Over all paper should be some how more difficult and really judge skills
Well it was easy its another matter if I pass it or not (Hope I will) but remember we were there to test the test not to be get tested
[ July 04, 2003: Message edited by: Syed AliRaza Zaidi ]
[ July 12, 2003: Message edited by: Syed AliRaza Zaidi ]
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Originally posted by Syed AliRaza Zaidi:
Hi Guys,
I was unable to provide very useful comments in SCBCD Test so I decided to write few words as my comments up here to provide some useful suggestion for Beta exam.

Was there a way to comment before/after the exam? I took the beta exam but I didn't come across such a thing (except for the short, EJB-experience-gauging, multiple-choice questionnaire before the exam). Looks like missed the most interesting part of the beta program.
Syed AliRaza Zaidi
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 12, 2002
Posts: 169
Yup there was a way
Mika Salminen
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 01, 2002
Posts: 4
a few comments about the exam:
i didn't like the deployer/application assembler etc. role questions either because in reality they are not needed so much
my biggest complaint was not the exam itself but the UI on drag'n'drop questions: it didn't let the user review or modify the answer - it displayed "unsupported" or something in the answer review screen and if you selected the question you had to answer it all over again from scratch.
some ejbql drag/drop questions were a bit awkward - you knew a functionally appropriate answer but you had to modify it so that you would fill every slot in the answer (surely not a problem that you'd come up with in reality
despite this, the test seemed fair if you had a good knowledge of the EJB spec


mika salminen<br />scjp / scwcd / scea / scbcd / bced / fubar
Kathy Sierra
Cowgirl and Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 10, 2002
Posts: 1572
This is a great topic!!!
Yes, PLEASE post any additional comments about the beta here -- I will be CERTAIN to add them to the list of other comments we are reviewing. Your feedback is VERY important, and we will read all comments (that people put in *during* the exam, as well as here) very, very carefully.
Thanks thanks thanks!
-Kathy


Co-Author of <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596007124/ref=jranch-20" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">"Head First Design Patterns"</a><br /> <br />Just a Jini girl living in a J2EE world.
Rangarajan Suresh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 08, 2002
Posts: 50
Hey Jini gal!!
I too feel that EJB Roles were given too much importance in the exam. Yes,understanding it would facilitate component development. But, there has been undue importance to it.
Neglection of BMP totally is also not that good. It is quite natural that an employer will not keep his BCD only to develop CMP Beans.
I took almost 3-4 mins to find the other answer for the EJB QL DND where there were more than required no. of spaces.
Also, there was too much stress on API method calls.
Hence, there could be more questions based on scenarios,patterns and EJB QL. Questions from Roles and API Method calls. some of the DND's were very interesting and they were time consuming too.
Siddhartha Bhattacharya
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 02, 2002
Posts: 36
Here are my thoughts on the beta -
Questions were well worded and had no ambiguity . There were no problems (afai remember) figuring out what was expected from each question! Most of the questions were right out of the specs and tested the various items listed in the exam objectives .
EJB specs --> Specs are good.
Lot of basics answers are missing (or maybe i overlooked) .
eg. If i provide both remote & local home interfaces for a bean then what does ctx.lookup("beanName") return? Does it return the home or remote home object type?
nyways there are lots of points to ponder and interoperability issues to talk about...but i guess thats not covered in the objectives...
afa other questions --

1. Reviewing Drag N Drop questions were not possible without resetting them !
2. Responsibilities EJB roles / --> Questions were like who adds which tags?
I havent seen people who are just application *deployers* , *assemblers* . Mostly its the bean provider & a deployer/sys-admin/assembler who do most of the work.
3.Something that was missing from the exam was design patterns. It would be a good idea to include that.
4. Most of the Deployment descriptor questions could be answered by just reading the specs and required cramming up the dd elements .not a good thing to do!!!
5. EJB QL questions were good and tested a variety of queries that would be normally used.

Overall it was a different experience sitting for 4 hrs with just a bottle of water. I guess at the end of it i really got frustrated...
The forum is a friendly place, and the pointers given by various people were helpful.
Angel Municio
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 07, 2003
Posts: 2
Hi,
I just took the exam today and I think the exam covered the topics very well.
I agree that there are to many questions regarding roles, which in my opinion are not all that important. I think that understanding the general concepts of what each role should do is enough. Disclaimer: I'm not a big believer in a market of components; it's has been the next big thing since OOP came about. Then again with CORBA and COM, but in reality, in 99% of projects people eat their own dog food.
One thing simple thing that can greatly help exam takers without taking away value out of the exam will be to mark clearly certain key words in the questions by using bold or underlined characters (ex: word like session bean, CMT, BMP, etc...). I had to read many questions several times, because by the time I finished to read the details I forgot if we were speaking of BMT or CMT.
The drag and drop questions where very cool. I loved the EJB-QL queries. That being said, I think they are of little testing value when compared to the time and effort they require. They take to many of my limited exam resources relative to other questions (time and attention among others). In my opinion this gives artificially more weight to certain topics overall. For example, the percentage of time one needs to answer all EJB-QL questions far exceeds the point weight they carry. I'll keep them around because they are cool and I guess many people have put a lot of effort on creating them, but I�ll use very lightly.
Finally, it was way to long. One-third into the exam, I had to mark all D&D questions and leave them for the end. I wasn't able to finish all, but I think this was in part because I was getting tired and slower as I reached the end.
Overall, very well thought of exam.
angel
Randall Stevens
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 65
I agree that too much emphasis was placed on the roles. As the technical lead for projects that I wrote EJBs on, I was totally responsible for the deployment descriptor.
I also agree that the QL questions took too long for the weight of the score.
I would like to suggest that in BETAs a one-time 15 minute pause button be added so you can go to the restroom and stretch your legs.
I hope I pass after all the effort. After the test I went and got a cold one.
Ashish Sarin
author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 20, 2000
Posts: 432
    
    5
I agree there should be a 15 minute break after first 2 hrs of beta exam. I really started to have headache because i wasn't even able to smoke a ciggrette


Author of
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barry boatfield
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 06, 2003
Posts: 7
Appreciation of the roles quite important to understanding the basic principles and concepts of J2EE.
4 hrs is an acceptable time frame for concentration and no formal break is needed or should be given, what of those of us who don't feel the need for the break, effectively 15 mins down on time. Theres nothing stopping some-one from taking a mini-break (or several) to refocus their thoughts without leaving the desk. 4hrs is sufficent to manage time. It would be helped if the d&d weren't such a pain to use.
I was allowed to leave the room to go to the loo, which I did once. Presumably this is the same at all centres? I did take the precaution of asking first, after 4 hrs is a longish time.
Syed AliRaza Zaidi
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 12, 2002
Posts: 169
nice comments one thing I really missed out which u guys made me remember is Review for D&D and the other thing which is good that some one has not said this :
EJB Ql questions were so so
Entity Bean questions were so so
MDB questions were so so
Session bean was not very good
Transaction was not with the best approach
Security was n't covered well
Rolls are useless
Over all Paper is Fine
Theodore Casser
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 14, 2001
Posts: 1902

Even though I think I didn't pass... I thought it was a very fair and decently-worded exam. My main complaint falls into the GUI for the drag and drop - there needs to be some effort to make sure that there's the capability at the test center to handle it (or, failing that, a mechanism to take the failure of the testing system into account in grading).
Assuming that every center's computers can handle it is unfair - heck, I took the test in the middle of Maryland in the US and still had a PC that couldn't handle the D&D.
Just my $0.02


Theodore Jonathan Casser
SCJP/SCSNI/SCBCD/SCWCD/SCDJWS/SCMAD/SCEA/MCTS/MCPD... and so many more letters than you can shake a stick at!
Syed AliRaza Zaidi
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 12, 2002
Posts: 169
I didn't have any problem with D&D at all
Matthew Anderson
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Joined: Apr 18, 2003
Posts: 33
Got a lot of problems with D&D especially the part where I'm not able to check my previous answers. Wastes a lot of time copying my answers on a piece of paper and reentering the answers back when checking. Sun should fix that problem.
Another thing is the questions on roles. There are too many roles that seem to overlap like the deployer and assembler's roles. I find it insignificant to know these roles in details since it is not applicable in real world situations.


SCJP 1.2, SCWCD, SCJD
Syed AliRaza Zaidi
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 12, 2002
Posts: 169
Yeah I Agree with your statement about role question most of the time developer himself is doing all the jobs .
Perhaps Sun wants to generate few more jobs for EJB by Separate Role so Writing a small EJB takes 6 persons and Paying much for nothing
Kathy Sierra
Cowgirl and Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 10, 2002
Posts: 1572
Howdy --
Just another comment on the 'role' thing. Remember that ROLE does not necessarily mean PERSON. Role-based development is just as much about the process of development (which, for components, is focused on reuse and faster time to market), as it is about WHO does it.

Think of the roles more like 'hats' that one person can wear at different times, rather than different people. Understanding the process is NOT about taking 6 people to do what one person can do, it's about having even one person design and develop in such a way that component-based development is better supported.
Anyway, I did ask this question to a top member of the J2EE team (but I won't mention his name ) and here's what he said:
===================
I think the problem is that for small projects it can be difficult to see the advantage of the J2EE roles since it's often the same person who is wearing "all the hats". However, it's much more likely that for
larger projects there is a separation of skills/responsibilities
that maps to the J2EE roles. E.g, for an application with tens or hundreds of EJBs, it's unlikely that one person will both write the ejb code and have the expertise to deploy the app into a production environment.
Understanding the roles also goes a long way towards understanding the
overall EJB/J2EE architecture. The fact that many of the assembly
and deployment tasks can be delayed adds a lot of flexibility. It also means there's a lot of behavior that can
be changed without changing code, and in many cases those changes are
made by people who aren't required to understand the gory details of
the ejbs themselves. A good example is the use of logical security roles.
==================
But once again, remember that in the *real* exam (with only 68 questions or so) you will have VERY few questions about roles!
cheers,
Kathy
Pradeep bhatt
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

I have seen all the roles being played by a single person.
Curious to know how many organizations across the world have the roles being played by different individuals.


Groovy
Mark Spritzler
ranger
Sheriff

Joined: Feb 05, 2001
Posts: 17250
    
    6

I think roles is just as important as creating a class that does one thing and has one responsibility and shouldn't have to know how other classes are going to use it. Or have to worry to make such that it needs to know your individual security names and passwords of your users and their security roles.
By seperating EJBs into these roles make each part able to work in its own environment without having to worry about "the outside world"
In OO principles, the art of decoupling for encapsulation and polymorphism makes component development as simple as possible. Makes it possible to create components that can be plugged in wherever it is needed, without disrupting the code.
That is my opinion to the importance of EJB roles, and by understanding them and seeing their value, increases your understanding of these OO principles.
OK, you can throw stones now.
Mark


Perfect World Programming, LLC - Two Laptop Bag - Tube Organizer
How to Ask Questions the Smart Way FAQ
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

I want to know whether any one in an organization where the roles are played by different guys
Syed AliRaza Zaidi
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 12, 2002
Posts: 169
As Kathy said roles are not played by different Individuals but only these are different hats which can be wear by same person however I can surely say that Enterprise Companies where work is done by separate teams these roles can be played by different guys but not for some small person.
One more Effective use of knowing roles is that if you have few teams working on Automated EJB generation using XML Schema or XML Files not one that JAXB supports which have very complex structure to manipulate and understand you can work for Automated generation using Open Source XDoclet so if you have multiple teams working on generation of Automated code and deployment descriptor using Custom Templates then multiple teams can work with Template each team write each particular deployment section generation code to modularize and divide the responsiblity to each team is very easy you can ask each team to write their own Template for each role and then you can have a Java Application in which you Intialize an array of custom Templates and Instruct such class to generate a new Custom Template file by merging all template files and generate Build.xml with ant task as well.
So to some extent it might be useful to know roles.
Finally Sun would be happy to hear that roles can be useful some how(the fact far from reality)
-------------------------------------------------
17 Years Guy with XMind
Billy Tsai
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 1304
are the final testing objectives out now? where can I find them?
should I study and obtain SCBCD first or SCEA?
I dont know whethe I should start studying for SCEA now and complete it by the time SCBCD is out which is early september then do SCBCD, or just start studying SCBCD now until it is officially released and do the exam then take on SCEA?
Kathy Sierra
Cowgirl and Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 10, 2002
Posts: 1572
Howdy,
The objectives are final -- once we go into beta, the objectives don't change (we might clean up the grammar, but what's being tested doesn't change). So... that's where things are at
cheers,
Kathy
Syed AliRaza Zaidi
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 12, 2002
Posts: 169
I would prefer SCEA on SCBCD Even if it SCBCD is Available Its matter of money if you have some money in your pocket go for SCEA
Billy Tsai
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Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 1304
So I should do SCEA and complete all 3 parts of it first then do SCBCD ?
Syed AliRaza Zaidi
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 12, 2002
Posts: 169
If you go for SCEA all three parts then I don't think you need to do SCBCD .
SCEA = Project + Experience + Knowledge
SCBCD = knowledge + memory
Amer Khan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 05, 2003
Posts: 163
Billy,
Experience is the sole measurement for nailing a job.
If your only goal is to get a job after getting a certificate then I am not sure appearing for any certification exam will achieves it.
It is too much of an effort to get certified once every two years, especially for the tests like SCEA that is multi-part and pretty complicated.
On the other hand if you want to improve your skills in certain areas,[JUST] preparing for SCEA will benefit you more..........


<i>Dare to dream - everything that exists today,was once a figment of someone's imagination, nobody says tomorrow can't be a figment of your today.</i>
Billy Tsai
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 1304
But how can one get experience if he/she is not qualified?
How am I suppose to get practical commercial experience if I only know the web tier or the UI processing and dont know the rest of J2EE?
its the same thing graduating with a accounting degree from university doesnt really make u a real accountant, you still have to take the chartered accountant exam.
Or how are you suppose to get experience as a pilot if you dont even know how to fly a plane.
especially in this competitive world if you dont show you are at least qualified or certified for certain job you are not even going to have a chance doing that job. But after you are given a shot and starting doing the job then the experience will start to count too.
And not to forget in this economy its better to have both experience and certs as well.
By the way I am just wondering if I should study and do the IBM 141 exam which is the IBM Certified Developer for XML and related technologies or just start studying for SCBCD now?
Nicky Moelholm
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 20, 2002
Posts: 43
Hi JavaRanchers,
Just a comment on the roles beging discussed. I must agree with many of the people here, that developers fulfill several of the roles described in the spec.
However, a practical example from my job (Maersk Data Denmark, 2000+ employees): We are apprx. 7 developers/architects on J2EE projects - where 2 people, in average, focuses on the EJB part. As EJB developer on these projects we fulfill the roles of Bean provider and Assembler. We have a dedicated group performing the deployer- and administrater roles. This has worked extremely well for about 2 years now.
Not to forget: Using ANT or modern IDE's you typically automate the assembly and deployment roles. They do not have to be painfull as long as they are a build-in procedure of your development cycle.
BTW Kathy : As many other Ranchers I read your sample chapter. It is very good and I will definately buy a copy. Stay active in this forum - that will certainly help the people heading towards the SCBCD certification.


Nicky Moelholm
MyCerts: SCJP 1.2, SCJP 1.5, SCJD, SCWCD 1.3, SCBCD 1.3, SCDJWS 1.4, SCEA, IBM 253
MyBooks: IBM WebSphere Application Server V7.0 Web Services Guide
Syed AliRaza Zaidi
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 12, 2002
Posts: 169
I Agree with you Billy but if I had a choice between SCBCD and XML to do one of these paper first I should have gone for XML as I did.
Billy Tsai
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 1304
I think I will do the IBM XML cert first then concentrate the rests all on J2EE (SCBCD and SCEA).
Do you have or know anywhere to get the electronic format of the books recommeded by IBM for their XML Cert?
what materials did u used to study for it
Lasse Koskela
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 23, 2002
Posts: 11962
    
    5
IBM suggested reading for their XML cert


Author of Test Driven (2007) and Effective Unit Testing (2013) [Blog] [HowToAskQuestionsOnJavaRanch]
Syed AliRaza Zaidi
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 12, 2002
Posts: 169
Hi Billy,
I used Essential XML QuicK Reference book + Professional XML Second Edition + Professional XML Schema (Wrox) + XSLT (Doug Tidwell) Orielly+ XFRont Roger's Tutorial+ had some experience with XML.
Hope it helps . Best of the luck for paper
Billy Tsai
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 1304
is the official SCBCD two hours like SCJP or 1.5 hours like SCWCD?
and how long do you guys think it will take to study full time for SCBCD to pass it?
Syed AliRaza Zaidi
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 12, 2002
Posts: 169
Original SCBCD will be of about 90 Minutes and it will contain 60 questions.If you have a good EJB Experience than probably it would take one day to prepare for SCBCD but I will suggest you to do atleast one week preperation.
Billy Tsai
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 1304
for 310-051 I have mark cade's book
and ED Roman MAstering EJB 2 and Enterprise JavaBean released by OReilly.
what are the chapters that I need to study for the last two books i mentioned above for SCEA part1?
is Mastering EJB2 suitable for SCEA part1 because its EJB 2.0 , but what version of EJB does SCEA part1 test people on?
 
I agree. Here's the link: http://aspose.com/file-tools
 
subject: SCBCD Time to Evaluate (To Evelyn and Ranchers)