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HF EJB - any estimate on time required to work through the book?

Andrew Monkhouse
author and jackaroo
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Joined: Mar 28, 2003
Posts: 11437
    
  85

Hi Kathy & Bert,
I have read some books where each chapter can be read in an hour, then you spend another hour experimenting on the computer, and so on until you finish the book. Such a book with say 20 chapers could be read with decent understanding within a week.
Do you have any feel for how long it would take somebody to work through your book? So how long to read each chapter / how much experimentation time per chapter?
Regards, Andrew


The Sun Certified Java Developer Exam with J2SE 5: paper version from Amazon, PDF from Apress, Online reference: Books 24x7 Personal blog
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

Bertt said in some post that the book is big.


Groovy
Kathy Sierra
Cowgirl and Author
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Joined: Oct 10, 2002
Posts: 1572
Howdy -- we don't really know yet for certain, until people start reading it start to finish. There are really two questions;
1) how long to get through the book
2) how long to be ready to pass the exam
1) how long to get through the book? Definitely LESS than a week, but we expect that you (not *you* specifically, Andrew ) will do virtually every exercise (most are done inside the book -- how much code practice you do is up to you).
2) how long to be ready to pass the exam? This one depends on where you are when you start, and what your test-taking and memorization skills are like. I will make a WILD guess at 120 hours or more, if you do NOT know EJB going in. But it could be MUCH longer, and it could be MUCH less. People who know RMI, for example, and have worked with databases/SQL probably have an advantage in a shorter learning time.
Cheers,
Kathy
Ko Ko Naing
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Joined: Jun 08, 2002
Posts: 3178
Originally posted by Kathy Sierra:

1) how long to get through the book? Definitely LESS than a week, but we expect that you (not *you* specifically, Andrew ) will do virtually every exercise (most are done inside the book -- how much code practice you do is up to you).
2) how long to be ready to pass the exam? This one depends on where you are when you start, and what your test-taking and memorization skills are like. I will make a WILD guess at 120 hours or more, if you do NOT know EJB going in. But it could be MUCH longer, and it could be MUCH less. People who know RMI, for example, and have worked with databases/SQL probably have an advantage in a shorter learning time.
Cheers,
Kathy

So Kathy, do u mean that one month should be enough to prepare for the exam for experienced people? I got RMI, SQL skill but not much on EJB... I guess I am one of them, who should pass the exam within one month... :roll: Can u suggest something? Thank you...


Co-author of SCMAD Exam Guide, Author of JMADPlus
SCJP1.2, CCNA, SCWCD1.4, SCBCD1.3, SCMAD1.0, SCJA1.0, SCJP6.0
Weerawit Maneepongsawat
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Joined: Apr 11, 2002
Posts: 203
Originally posted by Ko Ko Naing:

So Kathy, do u mean that one month should be enough to prepare for the exam for experienced people? I got RMI, SQL skill but not much on EJB... I guess I am one of them, who should pass the exam within one month... :roll: Can u suggest something? Thank you...

I think you should read EJB spec and HF EJB in one month too.


Weerawit<br />SCJP 1.4, SCWCD 1.2, SCWCD 1.4, SCBCD 1.3, SCBCD 5.0, SCMAD 1.0, SCJA 1.0, SCDJWS, SCJD, SCEA, SCDJWS 1.5
Ko Ko Naing
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Joined: Jun 08, 2002
Posts: 3178
Originally posted by Weerawit Maneepongsawat:

I think you should read EJB spec and HF EJB in one month too.

Hi Tee,
I am sick and tired of reading the Specs, which contains over 600 pages... And even after reading the spec, I do have to filter the contents related to the exam objectives...
I think it's enough to study HF EJB, go some mocks and go for the exam... It also depends on the individual skill like reading skill, comprehension skill, technical skill and so on...
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

I would say some one who is new to EJB will require about 2 months.
Billy Tsai
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Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 1297
i rekon EJB 2.0 spec is not too friendly to read but it took me like one month to read it and read it over and over several times to really understand the English language also ejb spec doesnt have too many examples.
Ko Ko Naing
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Joined: Jun 08, 2002
Posts: 3178
Eventually we got "Head First EJB", which can help us to pass SCBCD exam... As Billy said, it took one month for him to read even the non-user-friendly EJB Spec. But if we get the HF EJB book, then one month should be enough to read the whole book...
Andres Gonzalez
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Joined: Nov 27, 2001
Posts: 1561
the bad thing about these certifications is to memorize stuff. I'm struggling memorizing stuff for SCWCD (deployment descriptor stuff, listeners, tag libraries - I hate them- )...
In reality, you will have a reference book (or the web itself) when you're working on a project and need to know any specific stuff. The exam should test your knowledge and understanding, not your memory.
anyways, life is cruel
[ October 30, 2003: Message edited by: Andres Gonzalez ]

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Rashmi Tambe
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Joined: Aug 07, 2001
Posts: 418
The exam should test your knowledge and understanding, not your memory.

I completely agree with Andres. These certification exam actually test ur memory. However, on the other hand, u dont tend to go into minute details of APIs or concepts, unless u r made to do that. And these exams make u do the same. By reading / memorizing it 2-3 times, these things are fixed in ur head and then u dont forget them forever!
However, by looking at the HF book, i thought , it may be simpler to memorize the concepts with those funny pics!
I guess u would enjoy reading such kind of books that a long and lengthy descriptive books.
Ko Ko Naing
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Posts: 3178
Yeah... It depends on the individual's reading and memorizing skill... But we also need to understand the concepts so that we will need to memorize less...
Roger Chung-Wee
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Joined: Sep 29, 2002
Posts: 1683
the bad thing about these certifications is to memorize stuff. I'm struggling memorizing stuff for SCWCD (deployment descriptor stuff, listeners, tag libraries - I hate them- )...

Yeah, don't I know it.
What's really valuable, I think, is to set yourself a fairly tough deadline for the exam. I did this with SCWCD and, even though I felt it necessary to revise the web.xml elements, custom tags, etc, on the train on the way to the exam, it was worth it to get that exam out of the way.
I've already set the date of Tuesday, 4 May 2004 for the SCBCD exam. Now that I've made it public, I'll have to do it ...


SCJP 1.4, SCWCD 1.3, SCBCD 1.3
Karen Gomes
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Joined: Aug 25, 2003
Posts: 60
The first time I read the specs it was almost like a fresh start and it took me abt a month to get a grasp of the subject. Now after the specs I don think the book will take a long time.
Yes I agree with Pradeep, one month for specs and one month for the book should have u score above 95% for sure.
If u plan to read only the book even then, grasping everything should take abt a month and a half. . :roll:
Well now if u are a genius then u may take a lot less time to crack it!!
Good Luck !!
Karen
Ko Ko Naing
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Joined: Jun 08, 2002
Posts: 3178
Originally posted by Karen Gomes:
The first time I read the specs it was almost like a fresh start and it took me abt a month to get a grasp of the subject. Now after the specs I don think the book will take a long time.
Yes I agree with Pradeep, one month for specs and one month for the book should have u score above 95% for sure.

Don't u feel boring of reading the spec, which is over 600 pages? In my opinion, I guess reading the book first will make you feel comfortable with the exam and able to grasp the exam objectives more easily than reading the spec first...
I am sure that two months of studying for the SCBCD is really enough to pass the exam and even have a chance to get flying colors...
somkiat puisungnoen
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Joined: Jul 04, 2003
Posts: 1312
I think, if you read only EJB spec/Another book, it not enough.
YOU MUST HAVE :
Experience in EJB (development).
It is very important and help you learn EJB more speed......


SCJA,SCJP,SCWCD,SCBCD,SCEA I
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Bert Bates
author
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 8815
    
    5
When we worked on the SCBCD exam we were very aware of the common concern that some of the certification exams focused too much on rote memorization. We tried to minimize that in the SCBCD exam, although some memorization will still be required. We tried to limit memorization to the most common and core areas, the most common interfaces, exceptions, etc.
When we work on updating the SCWCD (which is particularly known for being a bit trivia oriented :roll: ), we have agreed that we will try to limit and focus the areas that require memorization and put more emphasis on concepts.


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Ko Ko Naing
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Joined: Jun 08, 2002
Posts: 3178
Originally posted by somkiat puisungnoen:
I think, if you read only EJB spec/Another book, it not enough.
YOU MUST HAVE :
Experience in EJB (development).
It is very important and help you learn EJB more speed......

I do believe that the words "Experience in EJB (development)" also mean for the self-studying with real coding... Isn't it? Even though some people didn't have chance to be involved in the real world industry development, if they got chance to develop in the research lab of the university or sthing, it's still the same, isn't it?
I can say that research work can also be counted as a real experience as well... Do u think so?
Kathy Sierra
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Joined: Oct 10, 2002
Posts: 1572
Research experience counts! We always tell people who are not yet working in this area to pick a small but complete project, architect it (what are your non-functional requirements? you might have to make something up...), design it, and build it. If you give yourself the same constraints that you might have on a *real* project, and you demand the same level of quality, you will still be getting good experience.
No, you won't be getting experience with a system under very heavy demand, but it is an excellent start. The problem I have seen with people doing their own projects to get experience is that they allow for bugs that would never be acceptable in business. You have to force yourself to track down and fix the difficult things, and to meet your non-functional requirements (is it fast enough, etc.).
Many, many people get certifications because they *hope* to work in that area, not because they already *are*. However, the certification exam is supposed to reflect the experience level of someone with a MINIMUM of six months working in the field using this technology. So, it is not enough just to read about it; you really should practice and gain as much hands-on experience as you can. You *can* pass the exam (especially the SCBCD) without very much hands-on experience, but it is definitely better for you both in the exam and of course in the real world, if you've done a lot of practice writing and deploying beans (and testing them).
You do not necessarily have to build a complete end-to-end system starting with web components; in many real-world scenarios you would NOT be building an entire enterprise system all alone -- others may be building the web parts of the application. So it is acceptable to concentrate on building your beans and your EJB applications, and testing them with a simple stand-alone Java client. We like to make simple Swing application clients.
cheers,
Kathy
Ko Ko Naing
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Joined: Jun 08, 2002
Posts: 3178
Thanks a lot, Kathy... The reason I am asking about the research work is that I am going to have a research room in the university I am studying... I guess if I have a chance, I will do a master thesis on J2EE, including EJBs...
Thank you again for your suggestion...
Calvin Kong
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Joined: Jul 02, 2003
Posts: 37
Does anyone have any suggestion on small projects for practicing?
Cal


Cal<br />SCJP,SCWCD,SCBCD
Andrew Monkhouse
author and jackaroo
Marshal Commander

Joined: Mar 28, 2003
Posts: 11437
    
  85

Originally posted by Calvin Kong:
Does anyone have any suggestion on small projects for practicing?
Cal

Some ideas for you:
The JavaRanch Cattle Drive has five sample assignments for Servlets, and four for JDBC. And if you join the Cattle Drive, you will have some experienced people do code reviews on what you write
Some of the Cattle Drive assignments could probably be adapted for EJBs as well.
If you are doing or have done the SCJD assignment, you could try re-implementing it using JSP/Servlets if you are studying for SCWCD or using EJBs if you are studying for SCBCD (although you would have to either use BMP if you use "Sun's" database, or move the data to cloudscape or some other ERDB. (Or do both )
Do you have a few books / records (gee I am showing my age - I meand CDs of course ) / MP3s? Make a simple database to hold them in, then try and create a system that will allow you to search for records / create new records.
As Kathy suggested - architect your project. Sit down first and work out what your requirements are, then develop to those requirements. It is very tempting to just start coding, but you will not learn as much doing that, and your end project will have some sections that were implemented in a way that you found easy, not the way you would have done it if you were trying to meet specifications.
Regards, Andrew
Rishi Singh
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Joined: Dec 09, 2000
Posts: 321
Hi ,
Anyone who has gone through the specs a couple of time can skim through the
chapters at a pretty brisk rate . I had been through a couple of sample chapters and i feel a week times should be more than enough to cover the entire book , looking at its contents.
Rishi
SCJP,SCWCD,IBM OOAD
Calvin Kong
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Joined: Jul 02, 2003
Posts: 37
Thank you Andrew Monkhouse
Cal
 
Don't get me started about those stupid light bulbs.
 
subject: HF EJB - any estimate on time required to work through the book?