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Regarding SCBCD.

srinivas m
Greenhorn

Joined: May 26, 2005
Posts: 26
This is my first message in this group.

I needed some advice. I was planning on appearing for SCBCD. But I talked to couple friends who are working in J2EE and also read in java ranch that, EJB is fast becoming an old complex technology. Most of the companies are using Spring and Hybernate which are simpler technologies.

And SCBCD needs learning the EJB stuff.
I am a SCJP 1.4 . I dont know the servlets, EJB stuff.

In short, is it worth taking SCBCD exam, when companies are not using EJB stuff anymore ?

Thanks for reading this.
Valentin Crettaz
Gold Digger
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2001
Posts: 7610
Hi srinivas,

Welcome to the SCBCD fourm

when companies are not using EJB stuff anymore ?

Tell your friends to take it easy and travel a bit. EJB is nowhere close to disappear anytime soon. It is true, though, that the technology is complex and that lately it has been in heavy competition with more lightweight frameworks, such as Spring. However, a lot of companies are still using EJBs whether in version 1.x or 2.x. The new EJB 3.0 specification is almost done and it shall be released next year or so. When this will be effective, several things will naturally happen.

First, application server vendors will have to upgrade their products and most importantly sell them to companies who have all their code base in EJB 1.x or 2.x. This is not going to be a piece of cake for them since companies will have to migrate a very large EJB code base and this is where you come in. It is a good thing to learn new frameworks (Spring, Hibernate, etc) but it is even better to still learn EJB 2.x now because your expertise will be invaluable in this migration process.

Trust me, I'm right in there. I'm an EJB 2.x oldie and I have learned Spring, Hibernate and the new EJB 3.0 spec. I can assure you that knowing how to bridge these technologies is a very valuable asset to count on when looking for job opportunities.

Give it a try... I interview developers on a daily basis and I can assure you that I put a very strong weight on their tech culture. In order to do good things in the future, you have to know what went bad in the past. HOw can you assess that Hibernate or EJB 3.0 are good if you don't know what EJB 2.x was like?


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B.Sathish
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 18, 2005
Posts: 372
Very well said Valentin !!
srinivas m
Greenhorn

Joined: May 26, 2005
Posts: 26
Thanks a lot for your comprehensive reply regarding learning EJB. There couldn't be any better answer other than yours.

Which certification is more marketable in the current job scenario in US.

SCBCD or SCDJWS.

SCDJWS would allow me to opt for other ERP packages. Can you please put some light on this issue.

Thanks again Valentin,

Peer Reynders
Bartender

Joined: Aug 19, 2005
Posts: 2922
    
    5
You may find the SCBCD or SCDJWS thread of some use. My guess would be the more organizations are currently using EJB 2.0/2.1 than the JWSDP - however web services are gaining momentum.
I also expect an associated shift from away from "distributed component architectures" towards "service oriented architectures". That means that designs will shift from "packaging business logic in re-usable/remotely accessible components" to "centralizing related business rules and logic into interoperable services" (i.e. services are much coarser grained than components.)

In the meantime many organizations will build services based on existing component architectures. Many more will use web services simply to allow other non-J2EE applications to access some functionality of existing J2EE business applications. So really I don't think its an either or decision.
srinivas m
Greenhorn

Joined: May 26, 2005
Posts: 26
Thanks for the quick response.

I got a broad picture on reading the related threads in your reply.

Will I be eligible for applying for jobs in various ERP packages (Oracle Apps, SAP, etc) ?
srinivas m
Greenhorn

Joined: May 26, 2005
Posts: 26
There was something missing in the last message.

Will SCDJWS certification help me in having a career in ERP packages (Oracle Apps, SAP, etc) ?

Thanks again Peer
Peer Reynders
Bartender

Joined: Aug 19, 2005
Posts: 2922
    
    5
Originally posted by srinivas mc:
Will I be eligible for applying for jobs in various ERP packages (Oracle Apps, SAP, etc) ?


I would not assume so. Sun's certification just cover the "basics" as they are outlined in the various specifications. Even each application server (from Sun, IBM, BEA, etc) comes with it own baggage (IBM and BEA have certifications specific to their products).

Once you move into those ERP packages its a totally new ball game. J2EE tries address infra structure needs of a general business. ERP is a much more specialized topic and its still huge and potentially complicated.
Peer Reynders
Bartender

Joined: Aug 19, 2005
Posts: 2922
    
    5
Originally posted by srinivas mc:
Will SCDJWS certification help me in having a career in ERP packages (Oracle Apps, SAP, etc)?


Not enough to make it worth while in my opinion. However you still need the basics - and you might be focusing on the ERP angle too much. Keep in mind that work with those packges tends to be lucrative because the topic is a complicated one and each vendors product is different. Its likely that you can only specialize on one vendor (I've heard of cases were someone specialized on one SAP module). So the value of your skills will rise and fall with that vendor, not to talk of the vendor's constant drive to update the technology to get more money out of their clients.

You may be better served by building your general Java EE skills and by reasearching the ERP field in general from a business/logistics perspective (rather than a technical perspective).
srinivas m
Greenhorn

Joined: May 26, 2005
Posts: 26
Once you move into those ERP packages its a totally new ball game. J2EE tries address infra structure needs of a general business.

I agree here. But SAP (am not sure about Websphere) uses J2EE in the NetWeaver/Portals area.

Do you think SCDJWS is not suitable for ERP career.


Thanks
Peer Reynders
Bartender

Joined: Aug 19, 2005
Posts: 2922
    
    5
SAP does whats best SAP - so of course large parts of it where designed to work within a J2EE environment - but I don't see them ignoring .NET either.

Originally posted by srinivas mc:
Do you think SCDJWS is not suitable for ERP career.

There is no "yes" or "no" answer. In large organizations with generous IT budgets that can afford these packages the SCDJWS would be a waste of time because most of the tools would abstract all the details of a Basic Profile 1.0a web service away and present it as the vendor seems fit.

In smaller organizations that are integrating themselves into the supply chain of their larger clients (but do not have the benefit of an IT budget to obtain these ERP packages, or simply have a different way of doing things) an SCDJWS may come in handy.

Many people will find themselves more likely in the second scenario than in the first. And you will not find yourself in first scenario unless you already have some related experience. You would most likely start as a general developer, who may "get lucky" and gets assigned to an ERP project - which then may necessitate some vendor specific training.

As your priority is "a career in ERP" most of your effort should go towards building a knowledge base of the challenges that are faced in ERP and the common solutions - i.e. build up some business knowledge. Take the SCDJWS if you like - however I don't see it having a fraction of the impact that showing general ERP (and business) knowledge would have in realizing a "career in ERP".
srinivas m
Greenhorn

Joined: May 26, 2005
Posts: 26
Thanks for your broad overview.

Your point of view is more convincing as you seperated the technical side (taking the SCDJWS exam) and the business side (career in ERP packages).

As there are many professional training institutes who are ready to offer training in the ERP packages, do you think we can grasp the business knowledge without experience. Will it be a long term investment.

With your point of argument I feel that getting into a developer position first and knowing the business side slowly and then switching to ERP is a better option.

Thanks a lot
Peer Reynders
Bartender

Joined: Aug 19, 2005
Posts: 2922
    
    5
There is no reason to delay building up some background; you should be able to find resources about ERP on the web or in literature.
Having a quick look at Amazon, these could be promising:
Enterprise Resource Planning Systems: Systems, Life Cycle, Electronic Commerce, and Risk
ERP:Making It Happen: The Implementers' Guide to Success with Enterprise Resource Planning
ERP: A-Z Implementer's Guide For Success
srinivas m
Greenhorn

Joined: May 26, 2005
Posts: 26
Thanks again for this valuable resource.

Have a nice day.
 
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subject: Regarding SCBCD.