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IDE for Developer Certification??

Eric Roy
Greenhorn

Joined: May 21, 2002
Posts: 4
Hi All,
I'm considering taking the Developer Certification and I had a question regarding the tools that we are allowed to use for the assignment part. Are we limited to simple text editors (notepad, textpad, etc) or are we allowed to used IDEs (VisualAge, Forte, etc.)?
Thanks,
Eric
Sai Prasad
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 25, 2002
Posts: 560
You can use any IDE as long as you avoid automatic code generation. You also need to make sure you use the LayoutManager instead of absolute positioning during GUI development. I used JCreator shareware version.
Nigel Browne
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 15, 2001
Posts: 673
Even though you may use an IDE, I personally recommend writting the code with a text editor, as I believe it means you learn to be a better programmer. I also recommend using ANT as your build tool.
Andre Mermegas
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 20, 2001
Posts: 158
It doesn't make you a better coder, there is just a stereotype of non-skilled developers getting by easier through use of an IDE. Found or unfounded it does not really determine your ability to code.
Working harder is not equal to working smarter.
Intellij IDEA is my favorite.
Theyre motto "Develop with pleasure!" I find it holds up quite truly.
[ May 21, 2002: Message edited by: Andre Mermegas ]

--=( Andre Mermegas )=--
Mark Spritzler
ranger
Sheriff

Joined: Feb 05, 2001
Posts: 17249
    
    6

Andre, it does make you abetter coder from the stand point of actually doing the work, instead of accepting the generated code that most IDE's create that most of the time isn't the best code, and makes things more difficult to read.
I used to think that an IDE was the way to go. BUt since coding in Java, and using TextPad, I won't use an IDE, because you lose too much control, and your design can get lost in automatically generated code by IDE's.
Mark


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Andre Mermegas
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 20, 2001
Posts: 158
Mark,
Auto generated code == bad, and not good for learning or experience, we agree there completely.
BUT, IDE development and wizards/automagicly created code do NOT go hand in hand by default.
It is a poor assumption in my opinion to think such.
I challenge anybody to use IDEA for a week, and happily go back to their old ted. EAP is currently active, go subscribe for free and download 624 build!
Jason Boutwell
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 02, 2002
Posts: 40
I don't think that the equation "IDE = generated code" is very accurate. Its a myth that IDE's are for lazy developers who don't want to learn or write their own code. A good IDE offers all kinds of goodies that can make a sharp developer's life easier.
For me, an IDE provides the little things that make development so much faster (and solid). For example, automatic re-compiles after every save, stepping through code and debugging with breakpoints, one-click testing with JUnit integration, one-click jar creation and deployment with Ant integration, and one-click code backups with CVS integration.
I've used IDEA, and liked it, but I have totally fallen in love with the Eclipse Project (www.eclipse.org). And it is FREE!
-- jason
parthiban subramaniam
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 15, 2002
Posts: 116
hi guys,
i don�t think we have to use only notepad to become a good and smart programmer and I�m completely against IDE�s which throw in there own code which is ofcourse hard to maintain and a nightmare to debug.
But think about this how many times do we get in to annoying tasks such as moving a package which was under a different package to another package.. would you like to sit and change all those import and documentations statements in the other classes which uses this package ?? well this is where IDE�s like Idea play a big part .. it does the job for you and you can be productive instead of being just a typist
This is just one feature of idea and they have many more nice features .. give it a try you will luv it J and mark don�t worry this does not generate code .

Well I love intelliJ idea .. I�m using it for nearly an yr and I luv it ..have to try eclipse
Well we all love things which assist us in becoming better programmers and not just good and I think IDE�s are one of them but be careful in which you are selecting It should assist you �. not create problems for you to sit around and solve
Cheers,
parthi


Even crazy and silly looking problems are sometimes real.
Robin Underwood
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 01, 2002
Posts: 117
I think it's much easier to use an IDE. It's worth it just to have a debugger. I already was used to using VisualAge from work and was happy to discover that it's available for free download from IBM. IBM calls the free downloads "Entry Professional" or "Entry Enterprise". Other useful features are code versioning and searches (references, declarations, text).
Ray Little
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 21, 2002
Posts: 22
To throw my two cents in, I think it's better to at least start out using something closer to a text editor. It forces you to understand what's going on.
When I started learning Java it was with Visual J++ and the IDE generated so much code that I really had almost no idea what was going on. As a result I also had no control and I was very dissatisfied.
Ray
HS Thomas
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 15, 2002
Posts: 3404
I am using FORTE as the IDE for the Developer assignment.
The bit I find extremely useful is in laying out the Components in the Component Inspector rather than messing around with code especially for GridBagLayout. I have hand-coded these in the past and understanding it I find it easy to use the IDE.
I'm just beginning to use the auto-generate facility for Beans, adding Listeners etc.As I haven't had much experience in using this first hand(would you believe it, the project I was last on used JavaScript for handling Events and Listeners - it worked to a certain degree,less powerful in scope) I find it difficult to understand what's going on in the generated code.
For the Assignment I just need to make sure the auto-generated code isn't what I'd have coded in the first place and doesn't use Non-Standard libraries like net.beans.org
So it's back to the drawing board for some first-class , hand coded examples before I revert to using the IDE for this.
I've also heard some good reports about the ECLIPSE IDE and aim to try that out too.What is a SWT? Goodbye SWING ?
I believe there are situations that call for using IDEs as well as no IDEs.
On projects I'd like to see auto-generated code that can be re-used otherwise this facility can be one's worst nightmare.
A site like TopCoder - www.topCoder.com which provides problems to compete with other coders expects one to code from scratch.Though auto-compile and Test facilities are provided. See you in the Arena!
regards
HS Thomas
Jason Boutwell
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 02, 2002
Posts: 40
"I've also heard some good reports about the ECLIPSE IDE and aim to try that out too.What is a SWT? Goodbye SWING ?"
Not at all. SWT is a widget toolkit written in Java that uses JNI to make calls to the underlying OS. Much faster than Swing, but it won't replace it. Just used to create the IDE. You can write Swing apps in Eclipse like any other Java app. There is no GUI builder.
Eclipse provides no code generation whatsoever. You must get your hands dirty.
Andre Mermegas
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 20, 2001
Posts: 158
http://www.theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=13567
Check out how us Intellij IDEA advocates hijack any IDE thread haha
Tom Ben
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 17, 2001
Posts: 109
Originally posted by woodsroy:
Hi All,
I'm considering taking the Developer Certification and I had a question regarding the tools that we are allowed to use for the assignment part. Are we limited to simple text editors (notepad, textpad, etc) or are we allowed to used IDEs (VisualAge, Forte, etc.)?
Thanks,
Eric

I agree with everyone that says that coding with a textpad makes you a better coder but yet disagree. I use FORTE to code everything I do in Java. I do not use it to write any of my code. I code all my Layouts thru code and all my database connections. The only things I use it for are the abilities to debug, create packages, and the inteliSense parts when you are coding. I have learned for the most part what classes are subclasses of the other and so forth, but there are alot of methods in each Class so I do like being able to look up which methods I have available to me. I ONCE tried to use the GUI layout piece of it and hated it. Coding it yourself gives you 100% control over the program.
Just my 2 cents!


Sun Certified Programmer on the Java 2 Platform
Ken Sheppard
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 11, 2002
Posts: 4
Eclipse is my choice. www.eclipse.org. No gui code generation, but numerious other usefull features.
Ken
 
I agree. Here's the link: http://aspose.com/file-tools
 
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