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still question about GUI

Jofer Chan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 09, 2003
Posts: 49
Hi,everyone:
In the "Bodgitt and Scarper",
The User Interface
"It must allow the user to search the data for all records, or for records where the name and/or location fields exactly match values specified by the user.
"
if the name's value and the location's value is null,
then search the data for all records?
Philippe Maquet
Bartender

Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: 1872
Yes.
Jofer Chan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 09, 2003
Posts: 49
Hi,Philippe:
Thank your Reply.
Is the system need the Delete function?
In the system,
Can the "Booking","Find(Search)","Delete"(if need) function display in the same Frame?
use the menu,what's function it need,"Help"? "File"? "Edit"->"Booking"?
Can I use the "JDesktopPane" component?
Philippe Maquet
Bartender

Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: 1872
Hi Jofer,
There are so many questions in that little post !
Is the system need the Delete function?

Yes at the db level, not at the GUI level. Same for create() BTW.
In the system,
Can the "Booking","Find(Search)","Delete"(if need) function display in the same Frame?

I'll do it that way, but it's a personal choice. I think that Andrew had a separate frame for booking.
use the menu,what's function it need,"Help"? "File"? "Edit"->"Booking"?

It's a good idea IMO to have (at least) those three standard menus. Because as they are standard, the average use will expect them. But what you'll put in them depends on your own design choices.
Can I use the "JDesktopPane" component?

I think that you may use any standard Swing component (or a Swing component of your own). But I don't think that our assignment would benefit of the MDI architecture. Now, here also it's a matter of personal choice.
Best,
Phil.
Jofer Chan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 09, 2003
Posts: 49
Hi,Philippe:
if you are girl,I think I be able to love you!
your idea is great!!!
Thank you.
Philippe Maquet
Bartender

Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: 1872
Hi Jofer,
if you are girl,I think I be able to love you!

Hope you're not testing my own preferences...
But you let me think of the fact there is so few girls on this forum. Are the graders less harsh with them in such a way that they don't need this forum at all or quit sooner ?
Svetlana, if you read me, please don't bite, it was just a question, no guess. After all, maybe they are just smarter ...
Best,
Phil.
[ October 24, 2003: Message edited by: Philippe Maquet ]
Svetlana Koshkina
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: 108
Hi Philippe,
First of all those graders are jerks and I mean it. Their minds are simple.
First they do, they open your client and examine it assuming right away that your server does not have UI. They think that your client has direct access to db and look for it shortcutting the whole evaluation. It what they did in my case. Upon not finding anything they failed me without even starting my server. My server had so many nice features that it looks even better than client itself and it allowed for opening client in non-networking mode as well as starting listener for remote connections. Moreover, it maintained map of all former clients and lifted it on every start - it was how same client after revisiting could see all its former reservations and unreserve everything. It was very simple but did great job for not having all those severed ends.
I was bickering for weeks with them until they finally evaluated my assignment properly and even this i did not like because they used new grading system that meant scores were based not on those particular topics i concentrated on (FBN): search algorithm , for ex. and as a result, i believe, i had lower score than i deserved. Of course, UI and locking remains strongest part of any assignment. They also liked my server eventually.

Second, as much as I flattered, by your guess that we, girls, might be smarter, than you guys, I'd tell that even women themselves that are sitting on hiring positions, think that they'd better off with having a guy as programer.So, as much i love jokes and all that, well, next part of my monologue belongs to another forum maybe not to even this site.
Anyway, i wish good luck to everybody with their assignments. It is great (and expensive) way to learn a few useful things about programming in java and about how difficult to document and organize all that mess of the creative thinking might be.
Regards,
Originally posted by Philippe Maquet:
Hi Jofer,

Hope you're not testing my own preferences...
But you let me think of the fact there is so few girls on this forum. Are the graders less harsh with them in such a way that they don't need this forum at all or quit sooner ?
Svetlana, if you read me, please don't bite, it was just a question, no guess. After all, maybe they are just smarter ...
Best,
Phil.
[ October 24, 2003: Message edited by: Philippe Maquet ]

:roll:
Philippe Maquet
Bartender

Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: 1872
Hi Svetlana,
I didn't expect you to answer to my post, or not more than by a wink.
So thank you to have replied with that very interesting post.
Sorry to quote you without respecting the flow of your post, but it's easier for me to comment it in chronoligical order.
Upon not finding anything they failed me without even starting my server.

I forgot - or didn't notice - that they first made you fail. I just remembered that you passed (my memory must have some "bad-news-go-to-the-bin" filter ).
But it's interesting to know, because ...
I was bickering for weeks with them until they finally evaluated my assignment properly and even this i did not like because they used new grading system that meant scores were based not on those particular topics i concentrated on (FBN): search algorithm , for ex. and as a result, i believe, i had lower score than i deserved. Of course, UI and locking remains strongest part of any assignment. They also liked my server eventually.

...we have a few other examples here on the forum of people who first failed, found it unfair, and harassed Sun till they pass ... without having to resubmit.
That's what I would do myself if it happens.
(...) those graders are jerks and I mean it. Their minds are simple. First they do, they open your client and examine it assuming right away that your server does not have UI. They think that your client has direct access to db and look for it shortcutting the whole evaluation. It what they did in my case.

I may understand how you got upset because of that unfair first failure, and it probably means that your grader was a jerk. But maybe that jerk the day you got evaluated was on a bad bood (maybe because of his wife BTW ), while being smart in the average. Maybe he is still a jerk, but maybe not. And maybe - thanks to your bad experience - he was thrown away of the examiners team (would be so nice !) ... let's say that's what happened !). But in any case I cannot agree with your "they are".
I don't know them, but it's easy to guess that - as all people we know - they all are different.
Also I remembered having read the word "fairness" in my instructions.html file. It is used in this paragraph, in the "How The Assignment is Marked" :
Provided the essential behavioral requirements of the assignment have been correctly implemented, the examiner proceeds to investigate the design and implementation of your assignment. This process is time consuming, and it is because this is done carefully and thoroughly that submissions take time to grade. The grading process is closely controlled to ensure consistency and fairness, and it is performed according to criteria detailed in the next section. At any time during this process, if an automatic failure is noted, the marking process terminates, and the assignment is failed. For any design choice concerning topics not specifically described in the requirements, marks are awarded for a clear and consistent approach, rather than for any particular solution. Design decisions must be described briefly but clearly in your comments.

Well, could any machine do that job ? No, or not yet, and by far. It's a typical human process, and if humans have some wonderful free software (and hardware) built in, more powerful than anything we can build by ourselves, (un?)fortunately it's still buggy. We simply must accept it. As I remember having read your CV when you passed, I remember your high skills and researchs in biology, so I guess you will agree with that point.
Another interesting quote from the instructions is this one :
This document deliberately leaves some issues unspecified, and some problems unraised. Your ability to think through these issues, in the face of realistically imperfect specifications, and come to a tenable solution is something upon which you are being graded.

If you combine both quotes, Sun claims their willing to get their examiners be
fair in a subjective marking process of your answer to their imperfect requirements.
In that context, I think it's difficult to blame the examiners in case of failure in their part of the job. Neither will I pity them, because their job must be so exciting.
My server had so many nice features that it looks even better than client itself and it allowed for opening client in non-networking mode as well as starting listener for remote connections. Moreover, it maintained map of all former clients and lifted it on every start - it was how same client after revisiting could see all its former reservations and unreserve everything. It was very simple but did great job for not having all those severed ends.

It must be so frustrating !
But what happened to you (I mean the happy end) is good news - sorry - for all of us who chose to follow the hard way to perform this assignment.
Mmh..., consulting my french/english dictionary, I must correct my "for all of us" in a "at least for me" - my english is so bad.
As all properties (in all modes : server/client/alone) must be persistent and accessible trhough a GUI, I read many posts about the "minimal-server-GUI-to-fulfill-the-requirements". And all concluded (AFAIR) that some improved input box at start time was enough.
As yours, my server is a full GUI application, and it's nice for me to see that such a solution can be accepted.
My server GUI has a "Settings" tab organized in sub tabs like "Application", "Network", "Database", "Logging". It also has a main "Actions" tab which lets an admin user perform operations like : build new database indexes, taking new cache settings into account, listen on a new IP Address/port pair, change the number of connections handlers (threads), (...), all that without disconnecting any connected client.
What's important to notice, is that none of those stuff are needed to pass, or even needed to get a high score.
Instructions :
Your project must conform to this specification. Features that deviate from specification will not receive full credit. You will not receive extra credit points for work beyond the requirements of the specification.

Most of people use that paragraph, along with this other quote from the instructions :
The IT director does not anticipate much reuse of the first Java technology system.

to argue and conclude : "Do the least as you can, and that little you do, keep it the simplest you can".
I appreciated so much your last sentence :
Anyway, i wish good luck to everybody with their assignments. It is great (and expensive) way to learn a few useful things about programming in java and about how difficult to document and organize all that mess of the creative thinking might be.

It means that - as I am - you've been more sensible to this other excerpt of the instructions :
The IT director (...) intends to use that system as a learning exercise before going on to a web based system.

This little excerpt alone justifies all the efforts you made to provide more elaborate designs and functionalities.
Second, as much as I flattered, by your guess that we, girls, might be smarter, than you guys, I'd tell that even women themselves that are sitting on hiring positions, think that they'd better off with having a guy as programer.

If they really do, they are wrong IMO. And I am not not convinced that it's how things happen. Two years ago, I was in a hiring position myself as IT manager in a small software company (we hired 5 additional people in two months). Before the hiring process started, I thought that it would be nice to have girl(s) in our development team ... but I finally hired 5 boys because no girl applied.
The fact is that women seem to be less interested in an IT carreer and ... it looks like it will not change soon. Just to make sure, I phoned my son tonight (currently in second year of a masters in computer science at Brussels University) to ask him how many girls attend his courses. Please sit before reading the results : there are 2 girls out of 80 students in computer science ! It's a shame, but it's a fact.
Best,
Phil.
[ November 01, 2003: Message edited by: Philippe Maquet ]
Svetlana Koshkina
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: 108
Philippe Maquet - paragon of sensibility.
:roll:
 
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subject: still question about GUI