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They failed me due to the "48 hours rule" :))))

Krzysiek Hycnar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 02, 2004
Posts: 74
Hi all

The assessor failed me because of the subject mentioned "48 hours rule" - despite that I justified the choice in my choices.txt (in short, not implementing it as there's no word "must" around the sentences describing the "infameous" rule).

Of course I appealed! Seems like they learn nothing from the fact that all who appeal on that issue, have their assignments reevaluated, or maybe more and more new unexperienced companies/assessors deal with the assignments on behalf of Sun (it's a known that Sun hires third party companies to evaluate the assignments).

Anyway, keep your fingers crossed!!

[ January 17, 2006: Message edited by: Krzysiek Hycnar ]
Steve Baranski

Joined: Sep 21, 2004
Posts: 16
Hi Krzysiek - Sorry to hear of your misfortune. I opted to implement the 48 hour rule just to avoid the pain. My choices.txt documented the assumption(s) surround that.

Just out of curiosity, did you get your result today? If so, when did you upload and take the assignment? I uploaded almost two weeks ago - Thursday (1/5) and tested on the following day (1/6). I know they said 2-4 weeks, but I'm waiting on pins and needles!

Good luck with the appeal. Please let us know how that turns out...

Steve Baranski<br />SCJP, SCWCD, SCJD
Krzysiek Hycnar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 02, 2004
Posts: 74
I saw the results yesterday, they've been ready since 5 Jan. - just forgot about the whole thing for a while

What really irritates me is that they do not read your choices.txt they do not take lessons from the "history" either. I don't know maybe they think that I'm just gonna buy another voucher and resubmit? There were plenty of "48 hour rule" appeals that ended favourably for the candidates (4 ex. look here). I've addressed this issue in my choices.txt, so I'm not affraid (in other words if they wanna fail me, let them find a better reason).

Don't be nervous, relax, have beer with your friends! Much worse things may happen to us. It's just an exam

Take Care
Ken Boyd
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 10, 2003
Posts: 329
Sorry to hear that but if you read posted result in this forum you might get idea that they fail people who has not implement 48 hours rule..

I have implemented that after reading couple similar post..

Good Luck and you will get pass after reval...

Krzysiek Hycnar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 02, 2004
Posts: 74
I know that and I read - see the reference in my previous post and I did no t implement it with that on my mind (I mean, I was absolutely aware they may fail me for that).

The presence/absence of the "48 hour rule" implementation in your assignment is a bit specific.

Basically you can have this or not.

If you have this in your app the assessor may dwell into details - if it's well implemented or not, if he/she likes it or not.

If you don't implement it the assessor has two choices.

1. Autofail you (like in my case) justifying that the application functionality is incomplete.

2. Go on evaluating your assignment (optionally deducting some points from your score).

The criteria that qualify your assignment to be autofailed is clearly defined in your instructions.html - "Where this document uses the word "must" an absolute requirement is being described. If you fail to adhere to such a requirement, your assignment will be failed automatically, and without further evaluation."

Now the "48 hours rule" is defined as follows:

"URLyBird is a broker of discount hotel rooms. They sell accomodations for
business and pleasure travellers at short notice, helping hotels to fill rooms that would otherwise be left empty. They take bookings only within 48 hours of the start of room occupancy."

Can you see the magic word "must" anywhere in this definition (I checked several times and it's always the same, namely I can't)??

As I said, I addressed this in my choices.txt.

Another thing is that there were also many SCJD candidates who passed the exam without implementing the rule and to top it all, they had no points deducted from their final score for that - let me cite Nicholas Cheung:

"I did not implement the 48 hours booking rule, but I am sure that there was no/low mark deduction.

I got 99 in general consideration and 70 for documentation. Thus, I dont think this should be a reason for auto fail."

So if they insist to fail me for that, or even deduct some points, I will ask Sun why they split the candidates into two groups, one of which passes and the other fails because of EXACTLY the same "fault" in their assignments, and what can I do to jump into in the first group??!!

I think the "48 hour rule" (which BTW is underspecified, and its implementation causes lots of confusion) should either be removed from the instructions.html, marked with the word "must", or the evaluation process of the assignments that don't implement it should be somehow unified, so it's clear, fair and does not depend on luck.

Take Care
[ January 18, 2006: Message edited by: Krzysiek Hycnar ]
B Chen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 27, 2005
Posts: 89
They take bookings only within 48 hours of the start of room occupancy

Doesn't this mean the application should not allow bookings over 48 hours away?

SCJD<br />SCJP 1.4
Andrew Monkhouse
author and jackaroo
Marshal Commander

Joined: Mar 28, 2003
Posts: 11668

Hi B,


However the issue that most members of this forum have is: that statement is in the general information, and is not a "must" condition. So we feel that (at most) the examiner might take some points away for not covering all implied business rules. But we do not believe that any candidate should get an automatic failure for not implementing this rule - especially given that (for example in Krzysiek's case) there was a valid reason given in the submitted documentation as to why the rule was implemented.

@ Krzysiek - good luck with your appeal.

Regards, Andrew

The Sun Certified Java Developer Exam with J2SE 5: paper version from Amazon, PDF from Apress, Online reference: Books 24x7 Personal blog
B Chen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 27, 2005
Posts: 89
I do sympathize with the OP, and agree that an automatic failure for the "48 hour" rule is a bit harsh.
I myself will not be leaving anything to chances. I will be implementing the "48 hour" rule when I get to that point. I wouldn't want to do anything (or not do something) that can potentially lower my score.
Guang Huang

Joined: Oct 25, 2005
Posts: 3
Just checked my result today, and I got Automatic Failure for 48 hour policies too.
In fact, in my application, I implemented 2 available room policies and have GUI let user to choose available room policy. (one is 48 hours, the other one is that room is not booked shoulb be available. the latter is default one, but I still got failure :-()

I am not sure accessor will look into you choice.txt or not. Because in my choice.txt, I state that I implmented 2 policies and they can be chosed by setting GUI, for easy to test I set the latter one is default.

Anyway, I will appeal for sure.
Krzysiek, how is your appeal result.

[ January 27, 2006: Message edited by: Guang Huang ]

OCP8i&9i<br />SCJP,SCJD,SCWCD,SCBCD<br /><br />SAS Programer,SAS Advance Programmer
Krzysiek Hycnar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 02, 2004
Posts: 74

I sent them an email about a week and a half ago, and it's a... total limbo, nothing, null. But you know, Sun is a huge company so the inertia is huge as well. I think my request is probably queued, however I reminded them yesterday tht I've been waiting to see the status of my appeal.

BTW your case is even more interesting than my, since you implemented the 48 hour rule as an option. I'm starting to wonder, what does passing this exam depend on (funny things come to my mind ).

Anyway I'm a pretty patient folk, so no problem I can wait

Good luck with your appeal!!


Guang's example shows something obvious: Implementing the 48 hour rule does not imply that your assignment will not be failed automatically for.. not implementing it.

Take Care
[ January 27, 2006: Message edited by: Krzysiek Hycnar ]
Consider Paul's rocket mass heater.
subject: They failed me due to the "48 hours rule" :))))